You are wrong on a lot of accounts. We killed two groups who came to our red dungeon. Both had around 8-10 people. We had two groups of 6 so 12 when we regrouped in dungeon. The third time we went to a neighboring dungeon to kill 10ish player who had ganked our group of 6 to recover their mounts. So these aren't your typical 100 rep Fort Sterling blue and yellow players. These are other red/black guilds maximizing fame. I would bet gold most were noble and glorious. We couldn't pick our targets in two cases they came to steal our dungeon or flag when we engaged as they did on the third if we don't initiate first. These were other red/black zone guilds. We didn't hunt down peaceful player, these were hostile players with the intent to wipe us on mobs or steal the fame by out DPSing. Not ganking small numbers of gatherers. The big thing is we were all 25k rep before all this started. How do we go from 25k rep to -4500 in some cases. That's too big of a swing.The reputation you lose per kill depends on the reputation of your victims. If your victims are of negativel reputation, so you kill them freely.
Rep loss for kills is:
neutral - 40
reputable - 80
virtuous - 160
noble - 240
glorious - 400
I'd say on average, right now based on what I can see in Fort Sterling, you'd lose around 100 rep for killing a non-hostile player.
That is a lot of kills to get to -2500.
Now, take into account that negative rep can be gotting rid of by grinding mobs, but also will decay naturally, by 600 each day if you are below -1250.
The reputation system encourges you to pick your targets wisely, and to focus on small scale engagements when hunting down peaceful players. It heavily discourages zerg vs zerg fights, but it does not discourage you from fighting players who are also flagged for hostile PvP.
In your case, judging from the numbers you shared, you probably went around the red zone with a larger group and killed everyone you came across, hence the significant rep loss. We encourage this playstyle, but this is what the outlands / black zones are made for.
By design, being a red zone bandit is more about running around solo or in groups of 2-4 players, and then carefully picking your targets, taking their reputation and possible loot into account. It's optimized for small scale PvP, and encourages the peaceful players / PKers and Anti-PKers dynamic.
Rep system needs to be revamped big time. Shouldn't zero you out for flagging.. 10 ganking 1 should be more rep lost than 12 vs 10 in a dungeon. Honestly similar numbers in a dungeon in redzone should lose you very little rep.
I am all for a rep system that punishes groups for hunting down loan PvE or gatherers but thats not what the system is currently doing. Its discouraging any and all pvp in non blackzones except alt account gankers. So funny enough it helps the gankers cause no 5+ pvp roaming group will ever go to redzone for PvP.. You've created a gankers paradise and hurt the exact people you were trying to help.
We were a group of about 17 that were split farming a dungeon in groups of 6 6 5. So if a group comes in and tries to take our fame/kill our mobs (from another guild) we have to let them... or flag up and smash their faces in and take negative 2-3k hits to our rep, and all they have to do is walk back to the dungeon and start trying to farm again with new gear sets.. and if we kill them again.. bam another 2-3k hit to our rep.
Are we supposed to share dungeons in red zones? Or are we supposed to fight over territory/dungeons/mobs/resources in this game? Because I am honestly confused.
This is mainly a concern right now because we have not progressed to black zone territory yet, where we will most likely spend most of our time.. but it is still MAJORLY concerning to me that this sort of change could and does make it into the game.
With this current system can anybody enlighten me as to how you can lockdown a red dungeon for your guild if another guild wants to farm it? Or do we just share red zone dungeons?