The Elephant in the Room: Expeditions.

  • I can just say it again: expeditions are crap. Better increase PVE content in open world by at least x4.

    And if you want some kind of expeditions, maybe make it so that its rather a matchmaking/groupfinding tool which spawns a Boss in a random place in the open world. You go there as group, fighting through PVE content. And after you killed the boss you get a buff which allows you to teleport back to town in order to restart the expeditions. Such a kind of expedition has the advantage, that it can also be PVP-open, as you can chose which Tier you go to.

    Currently I see nothing good in expeditions. Its extremly boring, and even if you introduce 10 additional maps, it wont become a lot better.
  • Nasabot wrote:

    I can just say it again: expeditions are crap. Better increase PVE content in open world by at least x4.

    And if you want some kind of expeditions, maybe make it so that its rather a matchmaking/groupfinding tool which spawns a Boss in a random place in the open world. You go there as group, fighting through PVE content. And after you killed the boss you get a buff which allows you to teleport back to town in order to restart the expeditions. Such a kind of expedition has the advantage, that it can also be PVP-open, as you can chose which Tier you go to.

    Currently I see nothing good in expeditions. Its extremly boring, and even if you introduce 10 additional maps, it wont become a lot better.
    As someone that originally "defended" expéditions (to a certain extent) I think expeditions are not really the problem.
    They are a symptom of a larger issue which comes down to game design IMO.

    There are a few factors at play
    1. Is the gear loss
    2. Is the price of replacing gear. If gear loss happens thats ok, but it needs to not be prohibitive to replace gear quickly and cheaply to go back out and pvp again.
    3. The introduction of rare tiers, and artifacts saw certain prices skyrocket and as such most people WANT to play in their nice artifact gear which also has interesting cool looking skins, but most people dont want to, or can not afford to lose it.
    4. EvE got around this in a way by allowing player to "insure" their ships which at least gave them a significant portion of their money back upon losing the gear to be able to re-gear and go back out for pvp (this IMO is part of the over all problem of people wanting to take less risk).
    5. The creation of expeds actually caused the devs to remove other open world content PvE. No idea why they did this, there used to be portal spawns in OW dungeons that made it Worth the risk for small groups and solo players to be out in the OW but now, its simply not Worth it.
    6. All dungeons with worthwhile fame, and silver drops, are COMPLETELY over-run by zergs. Again another symptom of removing the OW content.
    7. The OW content has been lacking for a really long time. I havent seen much changes to dungeon layouts since beta 1. Some of the boss mechanics are quite frankly, rubbish and need work. Basically OW PvE content needs to be made more interesting, more challenging, more abundant, and more worthwhile doing than it currently is because right now, due to overpopulation in blue dungeons I can run around for 30 minutes without anything to kill waiting for a spawn, and in that time I can run 2 or 3 expeds and have constant fame income.

    What is the solution?
    1. Create more OW content. - allow select players to help design new, interesting, challenging dungeons. Or for gods sake get a team on it, pronto.
    2. Create an "insurance" type system where players can have less aversion to risk. The sheer grind currently required to replace a set of T5 artifact gear is prohibitive for the non "hardcore" playerbase, which is a large portion of the current playerbase.
    3. If insurance isnt the answer, then there needs to be a competitive and cheaper alternative set of gear that doesnt perform better than artifact gear, but is better than "standard" gear and is readily available so not overly expensive. This will get your risk adverse players out in the world wanting to PvP...

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Snorri ().

  • Dethcord wrote:

    Stravanov wrote:

    They aren't losing subs due to expeditions. They are losing subs because its generally a pretty fucking low quality game with retarded design decisions being announced on a week-to-week basis.
    Expeditions is just one of those design decisions. But this game still has potential and it can become amazing in a month, if devs will want to make it so.
    Expeditions is a very good design decision - it's a little something to do when you have nothing to do.

    What's wrong it's that you have generally nothing to do bacause there's no content.
    'Cacatio Matutina Est Tamquam Medicina'
    X/
  • Targun wrote:

    Expeditions is a very good design decision - it's a little something to do when you have nothing to do.
    What's wrong it's that you have generally nothing to do bacause there's no content.
    Good design decision is to add more open world content. Bad design decision is to implement instanced shit. And it's obviousy bad and harms the game.
    "A little something" are solo dungeons in red/black atm.
  • @Dethcord
    Not add man. Re-implement. We had a good start (emphasis on the word start) on content. It is systematically removed.

    BUT.

    We should have known. This is an instance game. gvg's, hg's, portals, islands....all instances....all backbones of ao. GVG is the endgame and nothing more than a 5 man competitive instance.
    1. Limit expedition runs per 24 hour period. Slightly buff their rewards.
    2. Give people repeatable content which forces them out into the world to complete objectives (radial quest type stuff). The higher reward repeatable content sends people into riskier and riskier areas.
    A PvP MMO needs an ecosystem supported by a variety of activities which generate content, progression, and wealth. Eve does this. It's not all FFA out in 0.0.
  • Dethcord wrote:

    Targun wrote:

    Expeditions is a very good design decision - it's a little something to do when you have nothing to do.
    What's wrong it's that you have generally nothing to do bacause there's no content.
    Good design decision is to add more open world content. Bad design decision is to implement instanced shit. And it's obviousy bad and harms the game."A little something" are solo dungeons in red/black atm.
    There is how many? 5 solo dungeons in red? For game with thousands online?
    'Cacatio Matutina Est Tamquam Medicina'
    X/
  • Dethcord wrote:

    Targun wrote:

    There is how many? 5 solo dungeons in red? For game with thousands online?
    Who cares? They're not populated.
    Yeh but these are "solo" dungeons. Literally 1 person can do them, or a small group of 2 or 3 in flat tier 5 gear. It doesn't take much for it to get overpopulated in them and then they suck. Which is why the portals inside of them were good but again - instanced content....but at least you got unfarmed content of your own to do although instancing it sucks
  • Everyone in this post including @Korn who said Roor was wrong is to blame for why AO turned out the way it did.

    I look at the responses here by both players and Devs and I am baffled. How could 1 person literally call the failure of AO before the game was even released? I hope everyone learns from this post and why you should not trust a word @Korn says.

    @Korn Its time to admit you were 100% wrong about this and @Roor was right.

    I encourage everyone else to actually flip through this entire post to see Korn's responses and how his blatant lies ruined AO.
  • Terrorsauce wrote:

    Everyone in this post including @Korn who said Roor was wrong is to blame for why AO turned out the way it did.

    I look at the responses here by both players and Devs and I am baffled. How could 1 person literally call the failure of AO before the game was even released? I hope everyone learns from this post and why you should not trust a word @Korn says.

    @Korn Its time to admit you were 100% wrong about this and @Roor was right.

    I encourage everyone else to actually flip through this entire post to see Korn's responses and how his blatant lies ruined AO.
    How do you intend to prove that expeditions is the biggest reason why people quit? Please tell me. At least explain yourself before you draw such a pretty unfounded conclusion.
    https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/
  • The trend leading to instanced in town grinding has watered down the game til it was unrecognizable. This , that which lies behind the introduction of expeditions is the root of the problem. For the specifics of how that works.....man there is a whole thread here about it and it has been hashed, rehashed, chewed, vomited up, and ee-excreted here in this thread innumerable times.
  • Raithe wrote:

    The trend leading to instanced in town grinding has watered down the game til it was unrecognizable. This , that which lies behind the introduction of expeditions is the root of the problem. For the specifics of how that works.....man there is a whole thread here about it and it has been hashed, rehashed, chewed, vomited up, and ee-excreted here in this thread innumerable times.
    The general state of the game is 100 times more impactful on the average player.
    This instanced-content-whine is only a sort of whine that 5% of the original playerbase cares about. The other 95% are quitting due to the general horrible state of the game. Not some design philosophy that your average instant gratification player never even heard about.
    https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/
  • That is not the case. There is plenty of content that has been systematically not re-implemented at each cycle of release leading to a massive lack of content that has already been in game but it continuously pushed away. There is content that is locked in town behind portals that could be pushed to the OW. There is stuff man that can go in the OW. We've already seen it.

    This thread was quite correct in pointing to expeditions changing this game drastically and certainly not for the better. Course expeditions are just a symptom. Not an actual disease.
  • Instanced expeditions excel for those who come to play 20 minutes during a coffee break or something.
    All who put blame on instanced content you doing it wrong, if you dont like it DONT USE IT, problem solved.
    To attract players outside the town, there must be interesting content, MANY dungeons, quests, lot of mobs, and it must be suitable for 1,2, 5 players and not be zerged constantly.
    In another words : open world is too small (and thus too zerged), too unhabitated (by mobs, npc camps), too deserted, too overfarmed(by zergs) to attract people.
    And fame gain in solo dungeons in black zones is ridiculously small.
    So, both instsnced expeditions and ooen world must exist, but open world must have more content, dungeons and mobs to draw players there by their own decision (not by limiting instanced content)
  • This:
    "All who put blame on instanced content you doing it wrong, if you dont like it DONT USE IT, problem solved."

    ...Makes it very apparent that you are responding to a thread you did not bother to read. If you think this answers many concerns listed in this thread.
  • Raithe wrote:



    ...Makes it very apparent that you are responding to a thread you did not bother to read. If you think this answers many concerns listed in this thread.
    not really. The topic generally states that the expeditions are the cause of the problem while in fact they are the symptom. The cause is lack of open world content.
    'Cacatio Matutina Est Tamquam Medicina'
    X/