The Elephant in the Room: Expeditions.

  • Korn wrote:

    Jonathan_Silverblood wrote:

    Korn wrote:

    @Jonathan_Silverblood in the current test, we are seeing significantly more open world activity than in any previous test. Expeditions are balanced in such a way that they are clearly worse than open world play.

    So the people who are doing expeditions are often doing so because they - at that moment - do not have the time or organisation to play open world instead. This does not mean that they never play open world. You'll have many people who during the week might have time to run 1 expedition per day, but over the course of the weekend, will be doing lots of open world play.

    Without expeditions, these players couldn't play Albion during the week at all, meaning they'd likely quit, which cannot be good for anybody, in particular given that the game economy really relies on a player activity.
    Something isn't right here. For weeks now people I've talked with about exepeditions are all saying that they'd rather have the safe income from expeditions than going out in the open world since the open world is so contested. The -20% or so that expeditions have aren't a functioning deterrent for them. Doing an expedition a day or maybe two every now and then, is no big deal. But I'm seeing plenty of people doing 5-6 expeditions in a row and then logging out.
    There is relative and absolute frequency.
    • You can have 10 people playing, all of them doing open world, i.e. 100% open world.
    • Or you can have 20 people playing, 8 of them doing expeditions and 12 doing open world. Now that's only 60% open world in relative terms, but still 20% more open world players in absolute terms compared to the first scenario.
    As stated, balance wise, if you do you have the time and organisation to play open world, it's always much better than doing expeditions. So almost all people who run expeditions are doing so because for whatever reason, doing open world right in that moment is not feasible for them. If you take that away, they won't magically play open world, but most likely just quit the game for the day, or for good. Now if you say "ok, then let them quit, they are not supposed to play Albion anyways" the reason why that's wrong is that - as stated above - most of these players do also play open world content, regularly, but just not 100% of the time they are online.
    AMEN....AMEN

    Spoken like a champ. He's right 100%. Also to add what the dev said. Sometimes I'm tired of open world or the zerg is hard that I want to chill or I want to fame consistently without worry of finding groups or going in a dungeon in open world and have the risk of dying to PK.

    Expeditions are AMAZING for this case and I have done them every few days or so to get my fame up in a consistent manner. The question is to you dev is this:


    When will you release Tier 7 and 8 expeditions ;) or rather are they planned in the future??
  • Raithe wrote:

    Or they could just bring back all the dungeons they removed and have this same thing available like it used to be. Or they could have just left portals in dungeons instead and you could have done the same in far better dungeon layouts that weren't trash like expeditions.
    Fact is, they removed so much PVE from the game and the dungeons are so far and few between they get camped due to overpopulation and lack of PVE grinding spots, that expeditions need to exist now. Where is all the PVE?

    This game will just become a game where people queue for something inside of town, pvp, pve, etc and the only ones who need to visit the open world are the gatherers and the people who want to kill them. Basically just WoW all over again. Log in, wait in virtual line in a video game to play a round of capture the flag then log off.

    Great game guys!
    The True Victor.

    Make Albion Great Again!
  • I have not been fan of expeditions, but i have not mind that those are in game either. Until now..

    Jonathan_Silverblood wrote:


    Bercilak wrote:

    Ive played in various guilds in Albion. And even in bigger guilds there are times during the day where you wont find people doing a dungeon with you. We believe that its important for the overall experience to have a few experiences which you can do alone without the help of a setup group.

    And every decent guild will go into open world activities anyway, since the rewards are so much better. We are aware that getting people into the open world of Albion is crucial for the game thats why we made so many changes to it. And we even have a few more interesting ideas coming.

    Kind regards,
    Stefan
    This has no bearing or relation at all to the issue I experience where my friend even while being enough people online, chose to do expedition content over and over instead of going out into the open world.
    ..i hoped it would not go for this direction, but i have acknowledge this same trend happening. Too many times members just chooses to go for expeditions and not for open world dungeons. Thats ofc just my opinnion, because i would love to go for ow instead expeditions. But for example if there is 1 tank, 1 healer and 8 dps online. They could group up and go for ow dungeon together. But because one chooses to assemble expedition group, it leaves half (5 dps) players out of action.

    I see expeditions kind of problematic. I understand how those helps some people to get some fast action if there is not much time to play and i like it how expedition lowers the competition of ow dungeons. However this have a price. It hurts the open world aspect of the game and players who prefers to go for open world instead instanced dungeons from cities.
  • Roor wrote:

    Raithe wrote:

    Or they could just bring back all the dungeons they removed and have this same thing available like it used to be. Or they could have just left portals in dungeons instead and you could have done the same in far better dungeon layouts that weren't trash like expeditions.
    Fact is, they removed so much PVE from the game and the dungeons are so far and few between they get camped due to overpopulation and lack of PVE grinding spots, that expeditions need to exist now. Where is all the PVE?
    This game will just become a game where people queue for something inside of town, pvp, pve, etc and the only ones who need to visit the open world are the gatherers and the people who want to kill them. Basically just WoW all over again. Log in, wait in virtual line in a video game to play a round of capture the flag then log off.

    Great game guys!
    They removed the PvE areas because all the gankers were whining that it was too hard to find anyone to gank.

    I agree the dungeons are overpopulated, it is stupidly hard to gain fame in any of them simply because everything is farmed already and you wander in circles and have 4 groups of 10 to 15 people waiting for the boss to spawn and then seeing who can do the most dps on the end boss. This is terrible design IMO. The dungeons are repetitive, clones of each other, and boring after about 3 runs of them because they just dont change and there are no new surprises and no real interesting content in them just about 3 or 4 generic mob types and 3 or 4 generic boss types with the same ol' boss mechanics. This really needs a bit of work and would not take a lot of investment to make way more interesting and way more options.

    This is entirely why expeditions have become a thing. Dungeons are boring and farmed out anyway. At least in an expedition I know I didnt have to waste 10 minutes forming a group, riding somewhere, and getting inside to get minimal fame because everthing is already farmed. At least in expeditions I know my fame might be lower per kill but its consistent and actually higher than if I go out into the open world. Also there is the risk of being ganked but in general if you stay in yellow this is low low low anyhow so not really a talking point.

    What you describe in your last paragraph is exactly what yellow hellgates are, although at least they are more interesting and rewarding than expeditions.
  • The thing is, with a calculated loss of players, atm they just need to watch and evaluate.

    First content patch will bring instanced PVP and only some UI finetuning and smartcast,which was promised for ages.

    After they have sorted the original population out, they can see what is left and build the game accordingly. Also, once the ios and android works properly, some new influx will come from there, so they need to keep things simple. Can not see many mobile players go into pvp zones either, as they will just be free kills.
  • Guys... it's NOT BAD if there's instance and queues for it. Hell in the end let's be super real. In the end people want to play and not be troubled too much on getting to the content. This is reality and have been proven again and again and again by MANY MMO's this is true even for sandbox games. If a game didn't change then it was dead in a matter of time.

    I like open world sure. But to really keep the game healthy especially if population is less than before then having a mechanisim to be able to qeue for pvp (Arena) and pve (Expedition) and expanding those features due to them being widely used more than the open world (which I would assume is true and is only increasing in use) then it makes perfect logical SENSE to put effort to make them better by adding content to them and expanding them.
  • What are you even talking about? People are leaving this game BECAUSE of the ease of access Instanced features. Not because they were not in the game. They have been in the game since release. Look at actually what you are trying to state. Your saying that a game needs instanced content people can access from Inside a town (meaning they dont have to move anywhere) will succeed? That model 100% always succeeds? Oh wait...the last 6+ MMO's that have done that have failed and are not F2P games doing everything they can to bring player's back.

    The majority of kickstarter backers were told this was going to be an open world pvp full item loot game where you fought over territories. Its anything but that. Its the same BS mmo that has failed 100 times since WoW because they all want to copy the game that once had 11 million subs. So they look at that model and think, "that works!" It will never work again. Ship has sailed. Albion promised something new, and the reneged on it.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Terrorsauce ().

  • I have no issues with instanced content, but I have severe issues with instanced content easily accessible from town with no effort on the user, with a reward that's pretty much equal to any other endeavor.

    The hellgates are instanced, and they do it right. They are rare, they are attractive and they are competed for.
    The old dungeons were on the right track; they were rare, they were attractive and they were competed for.

    I wish they'd implement something that's actaully fits the the theme for once, like map shards from open-world bosses that would be required to find/enter a dungeon to begin with. (as that would make open-world bosses and exploration much more competed over)
  • Terrorsauce wrote:

    Remember when the OP called all of this before Expeditions were even in the game.

    I look at the responses by the players and developers in this post and I just have to laugh. @Roor called all of this before it even happened, was told he was crazy and look where we are now.

    @Korn you need to apologize to Roor.
    Instanced content in a sandbox game is bad. Who could have thought?
  • More importantly. Now that the instance content has changed to these types of queued group versions......

    I am still highly curious about the lack of conversation between forum users and the developers on the issue of in town vs. open world instances.

    @Korn or anyone in the know:
    Do you all have a response as to why these must be in town? I know there have been some simple and solid ideas on this and I have not seen much response to these ideas. It seems the BZ expeditions add little excitement just having the same thing as in town but just plopped out in the zone. But what about the concept that was thrown around a lot where the in town mob sends the group to a specific place in the world where the portal is located? How about the idea that I also saw regarding the old faction mobs that gave you quests giving expeditions instead allowing for differing faction dg's? There have been quite a few.

    Many of these ideas do not add so much on their own. They all have some promise though. Faction quest expedition npc's could easily lead to faction tokens/gear/vanities/insertStuffHere, faction ranking for new immersive faction interactions, and other additions that actually make use of the existing factions as well as develop their influence on the world.

    It just seems that placing them in town was a very efficient solution that is does not add to the world. Just another portal in town. Is there any room for tailoring this aspect? Or is entertaining the idea of further integration of these in a way that adds content to the world and makes cities less of the place to be while logged in merely masturbatory?
  • forum.albiononline.com/index.p…sual-wow-clone-horseshit/

    There were plenty of us telling them how horrible of an idea this was and where it would lead. I can't even believe this is the same game I played in beta 1. It's an isometric view WoW clone at this point. We called it 100% once they introduced "artifacts". As soon as you put rare gear in the game, you have to do everything you can to help people protect their precious pixels.

    2 years of beta and a year of alpha on top and their best release version consist of 4 activities:

    1. Queue a pve instance from town
    2. Make a group in town and travel 2 zones tops to pop a gate for a PvP instance
    3. Sit in town and wait for your GvG instance timer to come up
    4. Gather

    Boy we thought beta 2 sucked with the "walking simulator" version of albion and an "empty" world. I would reroll my character TODAY if we wiped back to that version.
    MyCatsInMyLap
  • Terrorsauce wrote:

    Targun wrote:

    Terrorsauce wrote:

    @Korn

    Waiting on a response.
    Forget it. They will never admit map design is wrong.
    They are losing subs daily. If he doesnt admit it was wrong and let us know changes are on the way the game will be a distant memory by X-mas.
    They aren't losing subs due to expeditions. They are losing subs because its generally a pretty fucking low quality game with retarded design decisions being announced on a week-to-week basis.
    https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/