Fire staves

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  • Fire staves

    Just wanted to write this down somewhere since if there is one weapon tree in the game I will always come back to it will be the fire staves. Sadly they are in a bad place in my opinion even though they are really strong.

    First, the w spell slot is almost exclusively used for firewall since the cc and zoning power is potentially on par with an iron clad e skill. There are few counters to get past it and if it is place directly on top of you it is possibly to be stuck there for the entire duration. Since this skill does so much for the fire staff the other skills just don't have a place aside from using the poke in a zerg fight, though even then fire wall can be better. I would suggest a change to either the way the fear effect works or to the number of times one fire wall can affect you. Although it would be nice to just buff the two weaker skills (ignite and knock back) they are not under powered at the moment and buffing them could be bad for the game.

    Second, the one handed fire staff. There is no way around it, this weapon is the weakest in the fire tree and probably one of the weakest in the game. If you want huge burst on an e spell, the crossbow has a weapon that does it better and if you want the fire spells you are simply better off with a great fire staff or wildfire staff. A possible change to the weapon would be to keep the current pieces of the e skill and add a really strong burn effect; this keeps the identity of the fire staves while also giving the tree a single target choice. Other options would be along the lines of aoe damage which just means it is either going to be the go to fire staff or simply a weaker version of the others. Keep in mind that the wildstaff deals more damage, is aoe, has nearly triple the range and half the cast time.

    Third, the infernal staff. My personal favourite of the fire staves, but I will try to be as impartial as possible. I am not really sure how the infernal ended up getting nerfed so badly, but it happened sometime between the betas and my guess is it has to do with the changes to health scaling. Currently the damage that the infernal does is only 40% stronger than that of the great fire staff while having three times the cool down on its spell. Even if you consider that the infernal e is not a skill shot, the damage is far to low to have any impact. Eg. The easiest way to show this is a gvg, first the weakness of infernal is it can be cleansed which doesn't stop the DoT, but it does prevent it from spreading, so assuming the other team doesn't group up too much, let's say that you cast the e and it instantly tags 3 people (300% damage). If cleansed right away the damage stops there, while the fire staff does not have this problem. So with the same duration of cool down (30 seconds) the fire staff gets 3 e's off and hits multiple people:
    MATH:
    each hit is 60% damage, assuming at least one hit and at most (not too grouped) three hits.
    (spell damage relative to the infernal times the number of casts plus the targets hit)
    60% x 3 = 180%
    60% x 4 = 240%
    60% x 5 = 300%
    60% x 6 = 360%
    60% x 7 = 420%
    60% x 8 = 480%
    60% x 9 = 540%
    Best case scenario for both weapons:
    Infernal:
    100% x 5 = 500%
    Great Fire:
    60% x 15 = 900%

    From the start the great fire has a significant damage advantage over the infernal, but this doesn't consider other factors. The great fire has a longer range of 15m to cast as opposed to 9m, the great fire doesn't have a cast time while the infernal has a 1.5 second cast, the great fire damage cannot be cleansed (instant damage with no DoT). There is one situation where the infernal 'can' preform better, in a zerg fight if you cast the e on someone out of position they could end up spreading it to everyone as they fall back, sadly in my opinion even in a zerg fight the infernal is the weaker of the two since you must be that much closer and stand still while casting making you a perfect target. All of this doesn't consider the two artifacts we have so far which both deal much higher damage (although with greater chance to mess up and deal little or no damage) while being safer to cast. All in all I think a slight bump in damage would put it on par with the other fire staves (not too much, the last thing we need is for it to be op), changing the spells function in some way would just remove the flavour of the weapon as being a strong DoT that can spread through a careless group. (hmm sounds like it would be perfect for a small group fighting a big dumb zerg :P )

    Just my two cents on the fire staves, and yes I had more for infernal I might use the one handed again and try and come up with more suggestions for it as well.
    Glaive (rip)
    Infernal #1 :D ...ALSO RIP
    I am also eternally poor.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by monsterSK: Added: 'Keep in mind that the wildstaff deals more damage, is aoe, has nearly triple the range and half the cast time.' Corrected great fire range: 15m ().

  • PezDSpnzr wrote:

    1h fire staff needs a change for sure, a unique W would be cool or an overall damage buff, the thing is if you did buff the dmg the E would devastate single targets
    Well considering the snipe crossbow has 15m range (as opposed to 9m iirc for the 1h fire) and does well and above double the damage for a comparable cast time I don't think increasing the single target would actually make it over powered.
    Glaive (rip)
    Infernal #1 :D ...ALSO RIP
    I am also eternally poor.
  • id argue its hard to buff or change anything Q/W related so long as wildfire is as strong as it is

    I agree base fire staff seems a lil weak, perhaps some sort of resilience penetration or something could be a possible solution.

    As to all the infernal numbers. Something cleansable requires considerable damage/consequence for failing to do so.

    +1
    Beta 1 > Beta 3 > Release > Beta 2
  • I personally think Fire staffs are in a great place, since its one of the few trees that is great in SingleTarget PvE, Area PvE, GvG, ZvZ, and OW. I agree that 1h could get a little buff, but way not much, since its E is almost a free cast because of fire wall, differently than crossbow E, that most ppl will try to interrupt.