Cursed Skull -> Haunting Screams Test Server

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    • Cursed Skull -> Haunting Screams Test Server

      Having played around on the test server, I do not fully agree with this change.

      Retroman schrieb:


      Combat Balance Changes


      Cursed Staffs
      Haunting Screams
      Extra damage versus players: 3% of max health -> 2% of max health
      Damage reduced by 14%
      Energycost reduced by 14%
      @Retroman
      Although I agree the damage was quite a lot in AOE based scenarios, I do feel the -14% damage is somewhat too aggressive of a nerf. I have been testing it out and feel that 14% is quite a substantial amount of damage being nerfed. Considering with the amount of CC resistance most of the time users wouldn't be in the AOE for any more than 2 hits, which .
      Can we possibly lower the % of damage being reduced to possibly -7%?

      Otherwise I feel cursed skull like other cursed weapons will fall off and become irrelevant, especially because to use it you need to put yourself in dangers way.
      Also the change to the Carving Sword I feel is slightly unwarranted, but not being a carving sword user and normally being on the opposite end of the spike I am giving my opinion based on GvG based comps.
    • _Just wanted to edit this reply was to the TS if the said numbers are correct_

      Regardless of the CC or not the fact that this weapon is specifically used only for GvG's as it simply is not only hard to acquire(which is how it should be) but its expensive, and serves only for the GVG niche...) The weapon itself is useless, it requires a proper team to make it worth all the negatives and that is simply being ignored which boggles my mind on why such drastic measures are being taken when im pretty sure that its my team that is making this weapon look better then it actually is... There was no talk prior to our last GvG of any issues with the cursed skull not even 1 thread...., so once again, im not really sure on what basis caused such drastic nerf to happen in the first place.

      Now to the nerf itself: @Retroman Im not sure why this double nerf was warranted...I can comprehend reducing the damage but then reducing the max hp damage by 1% just seems odd...This is already on top of the Q nerf that basically makes it so that it takes longer to get the maximum damage now and gives your target a higher chance of getting rid of the dots.... 14% is a very high number....for something that ticks dot dmg while forced to stay stationary to take enemy damage yourself.

      Now i know im biased since i use the weapon but there simply was no requests to nerf this thing that would of warranted 15% total dmg nerf without anyone actually asking for it. We currently have a nerf to Vile Curse
      • Max Stacks: 3 -> 4
      • Cooldown: 3 -> 2
      • Base Damage reduced by 25%
      already and now a 15% nerf to the only weapon that is currently viable from that cursed staff line, this is like nerfing the black monk 4 times with the range of its dash, the radius of its pull, the removal of extra cc and limiting it to 5 ppl, when simply the last one would of done it.... Im scared to use another weapon because if competent players using it will make it look good vs people that dont know what they are doing perfectly fine weapons will be getting the boot.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von HypeRNT ()

    • EricWer schrieb:

      @Termination You can easily get 2 hits without any CC, imagine with a root/stun followup... show me a vid and I'll tell what you're doing wrong

      Btw, I just logged in on mordred to test it but they didn't nerf yet, how did you already tested it?
      I was testing in Mordred, the latest patch has it. Unless Im not seeing the nerf. In which case maybe its so underwhelming in Production :P
      I did mention you could easily get more than 2 hits off, but if your not relying on other members then very few would get hit for 2.

      I was actually excited for the cursed skull after the duration buff of the root. But it would appear the root 14% increase equals like .5 of a second of extra root LOL


      HypeRNT schrieb:

      _Just wanted to edit if these said numbers are correct_

      Regardless of the CC or not the fact that this weapon is specifically used only for GvG's as it simply is not only hard to acquire(which is how it should be) but its expensive, and serves only for the GVG niche...) The weapon itself is useless, it requires a proper team to make it worth all the negatives and that is simply being ignored which boggles my mind on why such drastic measures are being taken when im pretty sure that its my team that is making this weapon look better then it actually is... There was no talk prior to our last GvG of any issues with the cursed skull not even 1 thread...., so once again, im not really sure on what basis caused such drastic nerf to happen in the first place.

      Now to the nerf itself: @Retroman Im not sure why this double nerf was warranted...I can comprehend reducing the damage but then reducing the max hp damage by 1% just seems odd...This is already on top of the Q nerf that basically makes it so that it takes longer to get the maximum damage now and gives your target a higher chance of getting rid of the dots.... 14% is a very high number....for something that ticks dot dmg while forced to stay stationary to take enemy damage yourself.

      Now i know im biased since i use the weapon but there simply was no requests to nerf this thing that would of warranted 15% total dmg nerf without anyone actually asking for it. We currently have a nerf to Vile Curse
      • Max Stacks: 3 -> 4
      • Cooldown: 3 -> 2
      • Base Damage reduced by 25%
      already and now a 15% nerf to the only weapon that is currently viable from that cursed staff line, this is like nerfing the black monk 4 times with the range of its dash, the radius of its pull, the removal of extra cc and limiting it to 5 ppl, when simply the last one would of done it.... Im scared to use another weapon because if competent players using it will make it look good vs people that dont know what they are doing perfectly fine weapons will be getting the boot.
      I agree that some of these nerfs are not warranted. Maybe we can go back to the drawing board and see what exactly we are seeing here.
      What I also don't get is the Carving Sword got a 7% buff, I'm not exactly sure why, but its already a strong contender in GvG's and I can see it being even more widely used.

      Originally the Hellgate weapons were considered to be very rare but also very powerful versions of their counterpart.
      But Im with HypeRNT I do use Cursed Staff and I might be biased here, but is the expectation that Frost/Fire/Cursed should be on some footing group? or is it expected Cursed is more supportish, in which case there needs to be more CC based skills on it. Because as it currently stands its got the same type of CC as Fire (Fire Wall) and lacks in comparison to the Ice Staff (All spells slow with others rooting/stunning)

      Clarification would be greatly appreciate here.
    • Termination schrieb:

      I did mention you could easily get more than 2 hits off, but if your not relying on other members then very few would get hit for 2.
      And that's how balanced this weapon is. You have to rely on your team's coordination if you want to do the most damage output from it.
      This weapon would be broken if you could do that much damage to everyone easily without any help
    • @Termination I believe the role of the cursed staff was that it was a ranged DPS weapon for the casters just like the bow had regular bow with attack speed and warbow. Currently there is like infinite amount of nerfs for the cursed and i haven't seen anyone really use them "EFFICIENTLY" ever since the nerf last beta. The new cursed staff additions both the skull and the spinning blades require you to build a team around that one weapon which just seems to be ignored when balancing questions arise. The percentage of wins with those teams are also overlooked since most of those matches while using both weapons are losses based on the videos ive seen. Currently if you look at any ranged DPS or any Range weapon, they do not require you to put yourself in harms way to achieve desired effect.
      Example: Fire staff you can sit back and kite for days doing HUGE dps.... If anyone gets close you fire wall dealing more dps. Frost staff line has great slows and a CC passive root that is very hard to close distance on if used properly, again not requiring you to put yourself in danger at all to get the desired effect of your abilities.

      You look at the both cursed artifacts. The skull requires you to be up front all the time.... the 8m Q range does not help one bit.... Making you chose between light armor dps, and some hybrid something something that simply does not work at all. Dpsing with light armor while also being in the front lines is a risky business which clearly not everyone can do( i thought that was what skill is called?). Similar to how the spinning blades cursed artifact player has to run around with their front liner to be able to combo his E with the guy charging in, if they are not communicating the E will be wasted causing your team to be in a disadvantage as we have seen plenty of from GvG videos.

      With that said, cursed staff is not a CC weapon of any kinds, its a DPS weapon that seems to have chains around it. I understand balancing, thats not my issue, the over balancing is when i have to ask for answers because its been one point that many members question.

      And just to add i would never criticize @Retroman because his job has to be a nightmare to do and no one is perfect these are just my opinions about the weapon, As i have said before i would be more then happy at any time to grab people if the devs ever needed them for any sort of testing with a feedback document afterwards being submitted to them for review.
    • have stuck thru with curse line since the beginning of my time playing(beta1, in which it took an epic nerf) and finally a lil love with the intro of life curse and skull(which is completely dependant on competent teammates). Now to only see 1 of the more difficult artifact drops get nerf into oblivion... And to have to agree with eos poster... Sad day indeed.
      *Agree with everything @HypeRNT throwing out there
    • Thanks for your feedback.

      So, the reason for the damage reduction is, that it is way more likely to get the full damage through than I initially anticipated.

      When setting it up in a combo: i.e. the caster activates a defensive ability (Stoneskin), roots the enemies with Desecrate and then goes into the E. Since the channel is not interruptible and the caster's resistance got a steroid, it is quite hard to counter for the enemy team. And this is what the Cursed Skull user can do on his own. In a group fight, his team members can nicely assist with more cc and shielding abilities (or maybe an Empowering Beam). Allowing for some devastating and hard to escape setups. So, I would say I originally underestimated this weapon's setup potential. And therefore now reduced the damage output, which is still good by the way. Eating the full duration still hurts quite a lot.

      I guess this is not the reply you where hoping for. But I hope it explains the reasoning, at least. :)
    • Retroman schrieb:

      Thanks for your feedback.

      So, the reason for the damage reduction is, that it is way more likely to get the full damage through than I initially anticipated.

      When setting it up in a combo: i.e. the caster activates a defensive ability (Stoneskin), roots the enemies with Desecrate and then goes into the E. Since the channel is not interruptible and the caster's resistance got a steroid, it is quite hard to counter for the enemy team. And this is what the Cursed Skull user can do on his own. In a group fight, his team members can nicely assist with more cc and shielding abilities (or maybe an Empowering Beam). Allowing for some devastating and hard to escape setups. So, I would say I originally underestimated this weapon's setup potential. And therefore now reduced the damage output, which is still good by the way. Eating the full duration still hurts quite a lot.

      I guess this is not the reply you where hoping for. But I hope it explains the reasoning, at least. :)
      It's quite hard to counter? The root lasts for like 1 second and then they run out taking minimal damage (Note its a 30 second cooldown and chews through mana) or they can pop defensives if they need to. While the Cursed Skull User has used 3 Skills (1 defensive plus 2 Offensive skills).
      We are talking about cool-downs here, and while that e is on cool-down, they have what an q and a root w which causes you to get into range of melee? The damage from the Q and W is significantly lackluster compared to Frost/Fire. It also has a now higher rampup time due to the changes made in Faye.

      I agree the damage might be slightly too high, but 14% high? I don't think so.
      Also you are talking about desecrate, what about other skills for the weapon? They don't have ccing based abilities.

      I would say the nerf here is what is going to cause people to not use the weapon if they had it already. I also agree, your job must be incredibly difficult, and I would also love to help assist with balancing tests. But I do urge you to possibly reflect on these changes as there is very little benefit to using Cursed when Swords appears to be a dominating factor in this game.
      (Just on a side note, Albion is becoming more of a Game of Bruisers, I as a cloth user can sure do alittle more damage than a leather wearing user, but my survivability litterly jumps off a cliff).

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Termination ()

    • Retroman schrieb:

      Thanks for your feedback.

      So, the reason for the damage reduction is, that it is way more likely to get the full damage through than I initially anticipated.

      When setting it up in a combo: i.e. the caster activates a defensive ability (Stoneskin), roots the enemies with Desecrate and then goes into the E. Since the channel is not interruptible and the caster's resistance got a steroid, it is quite hard to counter for the enemy team. And this is what the Cursed Skull user can do on his own. In a group fight, his team members can nicely assist with more cc and shielding abilities (or maybe an Empowering Beam). Allowing for some devastating and hard to escape setups. So, I would say I originally underestimated this weapon's setup potential. And therefore now reduced the damage output, which is still good by the way. Eating the full duration still hurts quite a lot.

      I guess this is not the reply you where hoping for. But I hope it explains the reasoning, at least. :)
      Hello, and thx for the response. Here is just my opinion to your fair points given.

      1.) the first part of "When setting it up in a combo: i.e. the caster activates a defensive ability (Stoneskin), roots the enemies with Desecrate and then goes into the E" You revealed that based on your thinking that player has used desecrate which is only a root and not a stun(players can use abilities/defensive's) while at the same time forcing to use the skull user with one of his own defensive's, i thought this statement meant that both players were in a pretty even battle so far because they both either use defensive's or take damage, fair to say that? Or so it seems.

      Now to dissect that exchange, one player has so far used a W ability, an E ability and a defensive ability plus in most cases a sprint(shield used up) or blink to close distance to do the accomplished goal on the enemy who can only use 1 ability to escape such as blink, ice block, sprint boots(with shield), shield charge, and so on. Advantage? Enemy?

      2) "Since the channel is not interruptible and the caster's resistance got a steroid, it is quite hard to counter for the enemy team" I simply do not follow the first part of this statement, basically this just means i cant get stunned? which is fine as its described clearly on the description and the enemy team knows that so they dont waste their stuns on me in that form, this in no way makes me more tankier though from any incoming damage.

      3) "And this is what the Cursed Skull user can do on his own," If my#1 statement was agreed upon to be correct, then this statement provides to be inaccurate as i proved that in a 1v1 the enemy has the advantage.

      4) "In a group fight, his team members can nicely assist with more cc and shielding abilities (or maybe an Empowering Beam). Allowing for some devastating and hard to escape setups." This statement is 100% true, his teammates can do all of those things, but they can also do none of them. This is where in my previous post i stated that to make certain weapons you have to build a team around them, sacrificing versatility to ensure the success of 1 combo. In my team, i sacrifice a tank using his CC to set my cursed E up, i then have to sacrifice arcane to beam me and hope that we can combo and do proper damage, if that fails in anyway, we have used 3 players,5 to 6 abilities in a blink of an eye while leaving our self's open for the counter on a 30 second cooldown E(thats pretty big compared to most weapons).

      5) "So, I would say I originally underestimated this weapon's setup potential. And therefore now reduced the damage output, which is still good by the way. Eating the full duration still hurts quite a lot." With this last statement i once again agree, but this time only about 50%. The statements highlighted in bold are my issues, yes you may have underestimated the set up potential, or you only saw what it can do vs inexperienced players which by definition any weapon can look great. The second part, "Eating the full duration still hurts quite a lot" im sure it does, but this is highly illogical to think that this ability could ever be supported by enough CC to have its full duration E ever hit someone through its entirety. The majority of ticks you could probably hit is anywhere between 2-4, depending on how good the timing is of the CC and the person using the staff, in which that is pretty avg damage when comparing it to any other DPS weapon given similar circumstances.

      My suggestion would be this, since the radius bug has been fixed that means -1 less tick on avg is a nerf in itself. -10% damage nerf for the base damage would be more then enough. I dont feel like 3%HP should be touched as i think it is working as intended. Overall these are just my opinions based on my experiences GvGing with this weapon for around 15-20 GvG,s basically since the weapon has come out and nothing more, thx for the reply @Retroman
    • Previously Vile Curse got a 100% damage buff in the majority of scenarios - Everyone calls it a nerf

      Now the ramp up time is considered higher when it's close to the same - I don't even want to know what's the next thing..

      The curse staff line is so miss-judged and over looked :(




      Interesting, I just did the rough math comparing the ramp up on old and new Vile Curse (and decided why not leave it in if someone is interested):

      Old:
      50@0s 100@2s 50@3s 200@4s 200@6s 50@6.1s 300@8s = 950dmg over 8s

      New:
      37@0s 37+75@2s 37+150@4s 37+225@6s 37+300@8s = 935dmg over 8s

      Ramp up (If its positive the new VC does more dmg):
      -13@0s +12@2s -63@4s +12@6.1s +37@8s

      So in a sense he is right, there is a slight spike in dmg between second 3 and 5 in favor for the old version.
      I still wouldn't go as far as saying it has a higher ramp up time.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von NicZa ()

    • NicZa schrieb:

      Previously Vile Curse got a 100% damage buff in the majority of scenarios - Everyone calls it a nerf

      Now the ramp up time is considered higher when it's close to the same - I don't even want to know what's the next thing..

      The curse staff line is so miss-judged and over looked :(




      Interesting, I just did the rough math comparing the ramp up on old and new Vile Curse (and decided why not leave it in if someone is interested):

      Old:
      50@0s 100@2s 50@3s 200@4s 200@6s 50@6.1s 300@8s = 950dmg over 8s

      New:
      37@0s 37+75@2s 37+150@4s 37+225@6s 37+300@8s = 935dmg over 8s

      Ramp up (If its positive the new VS does more dmg):
      -13@0s +12@2s -63@4s +12@6.1s +37@8s

      So in a sense he is right, there is a slight spike in dmg between second 3 and 5 in favor for the old version.
      I still wouldn't go as far as saying it has a higher ramp up time.
      Its the fact that u have to use 4 stacks to get the same damage now, considering im talking about a cursed skull here with a very short Q range its hard to follow a player at close quarters to get 4 stacks on him with an E that prevents me from doing anything for 6 seconds in which case the stacks go away. Desecrate would put 1 stack of vile curse on a target, its a root that you would use to help you E, it now deals less damage on 1 stack then it did before, thats a nerf. I also did not see any mana reduction for the Q stacks atleast posted on the thread so personally the staff is extremely mana hungry as it is and it did not feel like that update did anything for it.

      Sure if we are just comparing a stationary target eating Qs then its not much of a difference, but my examples are based on my experiences PvPing, usually in a GvG format.

      Regardless i would much rather this thread continues being on the cursed skull so if u wana discuss this further just hit me up on slack,discord or discussion on these forums, thx.
    • @HypeRNT Your experiences with your team and the way your team choose to use the item is more then likely where the problem lies.

      Here is something to test instead of chasing one guy like a headless chicken for 6s to only reach max stacks (and prob die in the process).

      Taking into account that you "poke" with your Q whenever you have the chance, the target you and your team aim for is already having one stack on him: Q-0s Q-2s W-2.5s E
      Reaching full stacks combined with E within 2.5s (realisticly 3.5s when you take the cast animation into account) leaving the target with a fully stacked Q even after he manage to get out of your E or when the duration ends.


      (Included some additional information to show others the weapons potential so they don't stray away from the curse-line when reading the feedback)
    • Basing a nerf around someone using a specific gear set up like a stoneskin helm instead of an iceblock helm should never be how you balance a game.

      The current curse staff makes it so you have to play around it. Lots of guilds tryed to use it and couldnt get any positive result, so is this item just OP for a few people? I agree with hyper, its kinda hard to test the game when everytime a competent player makes max use of an item it gets the nerfbat when in reality 90% of the people using the weapon (thats already hard to get as is) simply dont have a teamcomp or synergy to pull it off.

      Fixing what was already broken is one thing, making what should be a high-risk high reward item not viable makes no sense.