Crossbow Line Needs A Little Love - Heavy + Repeater In-particular

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    • Crossbow Line Needs A Little Love - Heavy + Repeater In-particular

      Hey!

      Heavy Crossbow

      As a prelude to this suggestion, I have been recently faming up using a Heavy Crossbow and my experience with it has been rather unsatisfactory. I am referring to the Heavy Crossbow's E ability, 'Sweeping Bolt'. It is quite lackluster in a number of ways and in comparison to many other weapon's E abilities that are both similar and different, it just plain sucks. It has a 25 second cooldown for an ability that deals 395 (At Tier 4 just as a reference/562 at Tier 8). It has good range which is current the abilities only up side. In the past e.g last beta, the Sweeping Bolt Ability was pretty overpowered, especially when paired with an arcane user and it received deserved nerfs. Now it is left in a horrible spot and is not used very much at all.


      Similar Abilities And Their Characteristics

      Warbow - Magic Arrow - [Tier 4 - 345 Damage, 30m Range, 3m AoE Dmg - 3.88 Sec Stun, 30 Sec CD] - [Tier 8 - 491 Damage, 5.52 Sec Stun]

      Wailing Bow - Demon Arrow - [Tier 4 - 247 Damage, 24m Range, Heals 19 HP And Increases Dmg 5% Per Enemy Hit, 10 Sec Cooldown] - [Tier 8 - 365 Damage, Heals for 25HP]

      Longbow - Rain of Arrows - [Tier 4 - 91 Dmg x6, 23% Slow for 4.4 Secs, 15 Sec Cooldown] - [Tier 8 - 130 x6 Damage, 6.6 Sec Slow]

      Wildfire Staff - Magma Sphere - [Tier 4 - 641 Damage + 48x4 Additional Damage, 25m Range, 30 Sec CD] - [Tier 8 - 862 + 65x4 Addition Damage]

      These are just a few long range abilities that do so much more than the Heavy Crossbow. Better Damage, utility, range, buffs etc. There is, ofcourse, more long range abilities out there that put the Sweeping Bolt to shame.


      My Solution

      Reduce Cooldown - My suggestion would be to 15 Seconds or maybe 20 Seconds with a buff to damage dealt. Perhaps an additional damage modifier for each enemy hit.



      Weeping Repeater

      Another weapon from the Crossbow Line that is rarely used. ( I have never seen one personally so far this test). Its E ability is also lackluster. Explosive Mine, not really something you would associate with a weapon called a Repeating Crossbow, has good damage but in order to apply that damage it must be stepped on by an enemy, ( Which they will actively avoid) or it can be set off prematurely by an ally and thus negating any damage. It also has a poor range of 13m although the mines radius of 7m is considerable.

      My other point is that its E ability, every weapons signature ability, is out of place. There is already an exploding mine/shot on the light crossbow variant. The Repeating Crossbow should have an ability that lives up to its name.

      Solution

      Change the Explosive Mine Ability to a new one. My suggestion is that the E Ability should be changed to that of which the NPC Morgana Faction Crossbowman has.

      The Morgana Crossbowman fires many bolts in a cone shape which deal considerable damage over time and per tick of damage and also slow. I believe an ability such as this would probably be well sought after and would do well to differentiate the Weeping Repeater from other weapons.
    • I like how you included all the best aspects of the bows and compared them to the xbow without even mentioning half of the spell mechanics. Thats prolly how the devs see the bows as well, which is misleading:


      Warbow - Magic Arrow - [Skill Shot (easily dodged as long as at least 50% of your brain is on), Awful Trajectory Speed, Loses stun duration on the person who has been CCed recently, 3m range AOE forces you to withhold the stun until you are able to actually make the 3m AOE useful, which puts a delay on the stun use ( meaning you most likely wont use the stun every 30 seconds, but more like every 45 sec/1 min).

      Longbow - Rain of Arrow - [Cast Delay (the area of effect is visible prior to the damage being applied, with a long enough delay to get out of the AOE), Channeling Spell, Interruptable]


      Just for damage comparison, lets look at the Q/W abilities:


      Lets consider Multi Shot as the best Q ability on the Bow (which it prolly is):

      Warbow T6 Multi Shot [Hits enemies in a cone for 210 damage, CD 3 sec]

      Heavy Xbow T6 Explosive Bolt [Hits enemies in a 3m radius for 279 damage, CD 2 sec]

      W abilities :

      Warbow T6 Frost Shot [Jump back 11m slowing enemies in front by 40% for 13.23 sec, CD 10 sec]

      Heavy Xbow T6 Noise Eraser [Silence a target for 10 sec, deal 387 damage, CD 15 sec
      Sunder Shot [Deal 242 damage, reduce armor/magic resistance, cast time 1 sec, CD 7 sec]

      Do the math and tell me which line has been actually lacking for almost a year. The damage on the bows is literally non existent, the intended kiting play style is ruined by the amount of gap closers on other weapons/armor. I can go on about this shit, but I dont think it will change much since Retroman is too busy playing cursed/claymore.
      Death at my hands is an honor.
    • crossbows are in a huge place right now. They are one of the few weapons with multiple extremely potent w and q options available to them. The sweeping bolt.nerf seems like a knee-jerk reaction to its #1 spot last test.

      The explosive mine is an amazing spell and I personally bring the repeater whenever I solo gather, as it can output massive burst with the low cd mine, and gives me a chance vs multiple enemies. The rapid fire shot you suggested seems like it would be too similar to the hell casters imo.
    • Actually i think the Q ability of the crossbows should have its channeling time reduced (lets say to 3 s; keeping cooldown 5s, as it is). This way you would increase dmg/sec when the skill is active but since the cooldown is the same your overrall dmg/sec would be kept the same. The thing is, pvps and gvgs require constant movement from all players; and as it is now, no Q EVER gets completed (if the enemy team has any vestige of a brain).

      Crossbows are pretty much abandoned, everyone is switching off to fire staff.
    • Nullius schrieb:

      Actually i think the Q ability of the crossbows should have its channeling time reduced (lets say to 3 s; keeping cooldown 5s, as it is). This way you would increase dmg/sec when the skill is active but since the cooldown is the same your overrall dmg/sec would be kept the same. The thing is, pvps and gvgs require constant movement from all players; and as it is now, no Q EVER gets completed (if the enemy team has any vestige of a brain).

      Crossbows are pretty much abandoned, everyone is switching off to fire staff.

      I'm the undisputed best crossbow player in the game for at least a year now and I'm telling you right now that crossbow is overpowered. if they're abandoned it's because the majority of players are bad.
      Derrick
    • Nullius schrieb:

      Actually i think the Q ability of the crossbows should have its channeling time reduced (lets say to 3 s; keeping cooldown 5s, as it is). This way you would increase dmg/sec when the skill is active but since the cooldown is the same your overrall dmg/sec would be kept the same. The thing is, pvps and gvgs require constant movement from all players; and as it is now, no Q EVER gets completed (if the enemy team has any vestige of a brain).

      Crossbows are pretty much abandoned, everyone is switching off to fire staff.




      Getting channels off is no problem
      Derrick
    • Derrick schrieb:

      Nullius schrieb:

      Indeed the boltcasters seems op, but i dont feel the same about the other xbow variations.
      But boltcasters require the most channeling of all the crossbows and your issue was the channel on the crossbow Q?
      My issue is with its spead damage. When you cant finish the channeling your damage falls too much. Do you have vids with other crossbows so i can check please?
    • Nullius schrieb:

      Derrick schrieb:

      Nullius schrieb:

      Indeed the boltcasters seems op, but i dont feel the same about the other xbow variations.
      But boltcasters require the most channeling of all the crossbows and your issue was the channel on the crossbow Q?
      My issue is with its spead damage. When you cant finish the channeling your damage falls too much. Do you have vids with other crossbows so i can check please?
      I understand where you're coming from, if you have to cancel the channel or get interrupted super early there is a fairly lengthy downtime on the Q. Every weapon is somewhat similar in that regard, if you're being interrupted and you can't Q then your damage output drops significantly, but it's the same with fire staff and such too. I know that the Qs are different and the damage is more spread throughout the crossbow channel and there's no cooldown on the other Qs but in real situations it's very similar problems for all weapons.
      Derrick
    • Derrick schrieb:

      Nullius schrieb:

      Derrick schrieb:

      Nullius schrieb:

      Indeed the boltcasters seems op, but i dont feel the same about the other xbow variations.
      But boltcasters require the most channeling of all the crossbows and your issue was the channel on the crossbow Q?
      My issue is with its spead damage. When you cant finish the channeling your damage falls too much. Do you have vids with other crossbows so i can check please?
      I understand where you're coming from, if you have to cancel the channel or get interrupted super early there is a fairly lengthy downtime on the Q. Every weapon is somewhat similar in that regard, if you're being interrupted and you can't Q then your damage output drops significantly, but it's the same with fire staff and such too.
      Except that fire staves have no cooldown on Q. So, if he ends up interrupted he can reposition and keep lauching speels; not what occurs with Crossbow interrupts.
    • Nullius schrieb:

      Derrick schrieb:

      Nullius schrieb:

      Derrick schrieb:

      Nullius schrieb:

      Indeed the boltcasters seems op, but i dont feel the same about the other xbow variations.
      But boltcasters require the most channeling of all the crossbows and your issue was the channel on the crossbow Q?
      My issue is with its spead damage. When you cant finish the channeling your damage falls too much. Do you have vids with other crossbows so i can check please?
      I understand where you're coming from, if you have to cancel the channel or get interrupted super early there is a fairly lengthy downtime on the Q. Every weapon is somewhat similar in that regard, if you're being interrupted and you can't Q then your damage output drops significantly, but it's the same with fire staff and such too.
      Except that fire staves have no cooldown on Q. So, if he ends up interrupted he can reposition and keep lauching speels; not what occurs with Crossbow interrupts.
      Yeah I edited my post to show that I understand that before your reply, the crossbow Q has already been changed several times over the last year so maybe they'll change it again but I personally think that it's fine. Very strong but easily interrupted. You need to remember there's an alternative Q now if you don't like the channel time on the other, it's good to have some variety in the game. It's a lot stronger than you seem to think though.
      Derrick