Who is the target audience for Albion Online

    Diese Seite verwendet Cookies. Durch die Nutzung unserer Seite erklären Sie sich damit einverstanden, dass wir Cookies setzen. Weitere Informationen

    • Pasky schrieb:

      So lets not send Albion Online off with an equally terrible launch that dooms the game please.
      The comments in here already summed up Albion Online's future and where the developers failed to shine or maybe they did not and intended to evolve the game into this state.
      Whatever might be true; shfiting away from a sandbox to a casual gvg game made me quit. At this point i would love to see a true dev statement about WHAT the game is all about. It is terribly boring after a short while, that is a fact.

      And telling us (in the future) that sandbox elements will be polished, while keeping alt characters and the soft cap lp barrier, will be a plain lie. (Has not be said, yet).
      The only feature that excited me, were the seasional islands. But after a short review, nothing will make the game more enjoyable, as long as the current (12 months counting) development trend keeps on.

      Just for reference: more than 300 people left our guild throughout 2 betas, our guild leader left his position after being a long term tester and round table member, i am basically the only one creeping around the forums, trying to influence through feedback (also ex member of the rt by choice), but hearing the same excuse "people leave because of beta/testing/burn out" just doesn't feel right anymore.

      I came back to the summer test a week late, only to witness a multitude of negative feedback in here. It all lead to the question, Pasky has nicely introduced: "Who IS the target audience for Albion Online?"
      So SI, please excuse this comment. It is not a rant, it is a deeply concernced player feedback. As long as there is room for being concerned about your product.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Archiemedis ()

    • There's a happy balance you can strike that creates an exciting open sandbox world that still provides fun enjoyable experiences for both pvp and pve players, hardcore and casual. It's not easy to strike that balance, but that's what years of development is for.

      What I see between when I joined (alpha 2014) and now - different playstyles are being separated by core design instead of creating a world we all live in together. Instead of new content, we have more divide in playerbase, maps, and rulesets.

      Segregation of playerbase does not create a unique and exciting sandbox. A good balance of risk vs reward and lots of activities/content does. The focus of development should be to create content that brings players and communities together.

      Hopefully we'll see real content additions to the game before final beta is over, and I don't mean a couple new biomes or artifacts, I mean actual gameplay content, like what Korn mentioned for PvP players earlier. There needs to be more content for everyone though, and it needs to bring people together, not separate them.
    • Pasky schrieb:

      Frumpylumps schrieb:

      This is how Darkfall died. The game started out as hardcore but then lost their way and started catering to the weak-minded crybabies and casuals who wanted things without having to work for them. To appease the forum whiners, eventually they wiped the servers and totally changed the game into a class based piece of trash that had even less players than before.

      Their problems were completely due to lack of advertising, not because their game was fundamentally flawed, as they had falsely concluded.

      Shame on all those weaklings and idiots who asked for DF to be wiped and class based pvp to be implemented.
      Eh, as someone who played Darkfall on launch, there's plenty of legit reasons why it failed outside of Marketing. For reference, I'm an old shadowbane player and hopped into Darkfalls original launch as part of the shadowbane alliance.
      Maybe you mean later versions of Darkfall, but a bad launch ruins a game, and Darkfall was doomed from the start.

      The game was poorly designed and encouraged afk botting/macro for skill gain. Acid bath resist raising party anyone? There was also originally a supposed cap on skills so you finished your characters, which they said was a soft cap, then they said there was no cap at all, just flat out lieing to the players. Progression was an endless, painfully slow grind people macro'd.

      I remember we created the "meatwall" at one point, where players lined up with healers behind as players just chopped at them afk to grind up skills overnight. How about getting magic up, literally just shooting spells into the air overnight. The first few weeks of launch were hilarious walking by seeing people just afk shooting spells everywhere.

      Don't get me started on how clunky and terrible the combat was to begin with, it literally reminded my friends of tribes rpg lol.

      Mobs were insanely exploitable, and the most profit was had finding such mobs and killing them for big profits with zero risk. This included glitching through walls/terrain, or hell, just ducking and the mobs literally swung over your head.

      Hacks were rampant. Teleport hacks, players literally flying through the sky, map hacks, reports of duping, you name it.

      Darkfall was just an example of a game that was great on paper but devs didn't know what they were doing. When they launched the NA servers they made everyone re-buy the game, most of us quit then and there. Then I think unholy wars came out? Whatever happened after that initial server, the trust was already broken with the players and most of us had moved on.

      So lets not send Albion Online off with an equally terrible launch that dooms the game please.
      There is nothing inherently wrong with macroing. One of the best parts of early city raiding was killing people loaded up with reagents. It is a risk vs reward on the part of the macroer. They should have had the same functions automated in-game as a feature so you wouldnt need a 3rd party tool. The problem was that there were no diminishing returns and no significantly greater skill gain from hitting mobs in the world.

      Also, you didn't have to re-buy the game for NA. There were transfers.

      I would agree that the devs were incompetent, but the biggest issue was attracting the right kinds of players, not that the game need to fundamentally change like it did..

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Frumpylumps ()

    • Ugh, more Darkfall talk haha.

      Macroing and killing afk macroers is a bad sign, not something "fun" or "risk vs reward", just pure bad design. Also plenty of people macroed in glitched out portions of the map, only person killing them were hackers literally flying around with position/teleport hacks, I should know, it happened to me in a glitched out portion of a dungeon I was doing it in lol. No game should force players to leave their computers online overnight macroing, that's what you did in Darkfall to keep your progression relevant.

      The transfers to NA servers didn't come into well after the launch of NA servers, most people re-bought to play at launch, you were pretty much expected to, getting a good start on the fresh server is important to competitive players. That was the time when a lot of us parted ways with Darkfall.

      Darkfall attracted the right players, it just had such an abysmal launch and was poorly made that most left and never came back. Sounds like what players remained were vocal about not so good changes in your opinion, imo though, the game was already doomed from the get go.

      Anyway, this is Albion not Darkfall, Let's hope Albion doesn't go down a similar path with a terrible launch.
    • Pasky schrieb:

      Ugh, more Darkfall talk haha.

      Macroing and killing afk macroers is a bad sign, not something "fun" or "risk vs reward", just pure bad design.

      The transfers to NA servers didn't come into well after the launch of NA servers, most people re-bought to play at launch, you were pretty much expected to, getting a good start on the fresh server is important to competitive players. That was the time when a lot of us parted ways with Darkfall.

      Darkfall attracted the right players, it just had such an abysmal launch and was poorly made that most left and never came back.

      Anyone, this is Albion forums not Darkfall, Let's hope Albion doesn't go down a similar path with a terrible launch.
      Can you explain why you think its a bad sign and bad design, exactly? I'm pretty sure that you just don't like it because you aren't used to it/don't understand its benefits. Look, if you decided to set up a macro with a ton of reagents on you, that is in fact risk vs reward because someone can just come along and kill you and take your shit and the benefit to you would be unattended skill gain. Maybe you don't like macroing, but that is just how you personally feel about it. Ultima online had it and was one of the greatest pvpmmorpgs of all time and was the inspiration for this very game.

      They didn't force you to buy the game again. If you wanted to be in there at launch, yea you had to buy the game again, but they didn't force anything. It was good that they did that because to dump veteran players alongside players who are just starting on NA would idiotic..

      Most of the people who left DF early on were weak-minded WoW vacationers who the game wasn't mean for in the first place. As soon as they lost their first siege and lost their city they quit.
    • Last reply I'll give for off-topic Darkfall talk, assuming these posts don't get removed since the only relevance to Albion is fear of a bad launch filled with bad design choices and hacks/exploits.

      I love UO, but when I think about what made UO great it wasn't multiboxing locked in my house macroing up magery and magic resist, that's not a "good" quality about UO progression. However, there was a hard skill cap in UO, so as dumb as it was you were done relatively quick, then you went about your life playing in the sandbox that is UO, skill progression was irrelevant. There was no skill cap in Darkfall, literally leave your computer on everynight to continue the endless progression, or fall behind in the power gap vs other players.

      People didn't leave Darkfall because they were WoW vacationers, a large portion of us came from games like UO, Shadowbane, EvE, and other sandbox pvp heavy games. It was just a poorly made game, with dumb mechanics, tons of hacks and exploits, endless macro progression, empty maps with huge travel time, clunky combat, you name it, it did it wrong. Maybe it got better overtime, but launch was abysmal, and that's enough to sink a game permanently.
    • Pasky schrieb:


      There was no skill cap in Darkfall, literally leave your computer on everynight to continue the endless progression, or fall behind in the power gap vs other players.

      People didn't leave Darkfall because they were WoW vacationers, a large portion of us came from games like UO, Shadowbane, EvE, and other sandbox pvp heavy games. It was just a poorly made game, with dumb mechanics, tons of hacks and exploits, endless macro progression, empty maps with huge travel time, clunky combat, you name it, it did it wrong. Maybe it got better overtime, but launch was abysmal, and that's enough to sink a game permanently.
      Wrong again. There was a skill cap of was 100. This idea that you would fall behind if you didn't macro all day everyday is a pure nonsense that you will only hear from weak-willed players. I never macroed melee on players and I maxed out several weapons. Yes, I fell behind others at times in regards to magic but I never cried like a bitch about it, nor felt overly outclassed by any single character at any point. Two newly created characters had more HP than someone with that was completely maxed out in everything. The problem is that most people are entitled and instant gratification morons who want what others have without having to put forth the same amount of effort, and even if someone else can gain a slight hp or damage advantage due to putting a lot of work into their character, that will always be blamed for the reason they lost in pvp. Those are the people who left Darkfall initially, the people who the game was never designed for in the first place. Unfortunately, AV started listening to the clueless whiners on their forums, fundamentally changed their game to be more casual and class-based pvp, and now they have even less players even after launching on steam.

      Darkfall also had the most skill-based combat of any pvpmmorpg in history. The only thing you are really right about is the hacks and exploits.

      Fat bags of reagents carried by macroers provided the best rewards for city raiders. I guess it is the fact that it is a 3rd party program and not actually something that is part of the game that people tend to have these negative emotions about macroing. Granted it was stupid of them not to have diminishing returns.

      Like Albion, empty maps is a population problem. Most people haven't even heard of Darkfall.
    • If darkfall was the best game ever why aren't you playing it. Skill max isn't skill cap btw, just google no skill cap and check posts from 2009 if you're too dense to figure it out on your own. Not going to lecture you on why it's a bad game, there's a reason why it's dead and why you're here now, and it's not because they might have finally started listening to players years after launch.

      If you wanna keep talking about how awesome it is feel free to PM me instead of continuing to go off topic on this thread, no one cares though, we're here to talk about Albion and how to improve it for launch, not to talk about why Darkfall was such a massive failure.
    • Pasky schrieb:

      If darkfall was the best game ever why aren't you playing it. Skill max isn't skill cap btw, just google no skill cap and check posts from 2009 if you're too dense to figure it out on your own. Not going to lecture you on why it's a bad game, there's a reason why it's dead and why you're here now, and it's not because they might have finally started listening to players years after launch.

      If you wanna keep talking about how awesome it is feel free to PM me instead of continuing to go off topic on this thread, no one cares though, we're here to talk about Albion and how to improve it for launch, not to talk about why Darkfall was such a massive failure.


      You just look like a moron saying that people were "forced" to buy a new account on NA. That is completely untrue, and it makes complete sense why AV did it the way they did. You really didn't get why they delayed character transfers on a newly created server? And you think I am dense? Skill cap is 100, it is not infinite grind like you say or fall behind. Two newly created characters have more HP than someone who had maxed out everything but still these pathetic retards complained about enormous character disadvantages, purely out of wanting things others had without being willing to put forth the effort themselves.

      If you quit because the "grind" was too hard, it is proof you are a weak-willed player who the game wasn't designed for in the first place! Don't act like like long term progression is a bad thing just because you suck at it. Character development has always been part of the competition in these games and there is always some entitled, instant-gratification cry-tard who blames the game for being too challenging rather than accept that maybe, just maybe, this game wasn't designed for weak-minded individuals like yourself. The real reason Darkfall failed was due to lack of advertising. Nobody had even heard of it. It wasn't because <insert X game mechanic that you disliked>. Darkfall failed because AV listening to stupid whiners who didn't know WTF they even were talking about and who the game was never designed for in the first place. The exact same thing has been happening to albion.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 6 mal editiert, zuletzt von Frumpylumps ()

    • "Between Beta 1 and Final Beta, the only thing that could be considered "less hardcore" is the crime and reputation system. Nothing else has changed on that front."

      You do understand that that current REPUTATION SYSTEM is "mindless killing stuff" because ppl who do that activity dont care about theyr "criminal status" its like 70% alt players and 30% outland players coming to red just to find faster PVP.

      You know that BETA1 had flawless YELLOW PVP ACTION?

      You know THAT RED ZONE have that RED DOT ZERG mechanic which is far more superb than "rep system" it self.

      You know that newbies gets stomped by zergs in those BLACK ZONES (no red dots, no targets) Red zone was common in BETA1 and HOTSPOTS was Dungeons/Raid dungeons WHIT RED DOT MECHANIC (targets on map PVP ACTION)


      Now, during final beta:
      • We will bring back GvG to yellow and red - thats super but taking so freaking long.......
      • We will rework the outlands to be far more exciting, with a different layout and clear PvP hotspots similar to beta 1 and with guilds from different time zones being able to fight each other - How and than? this is just abstract... Is this about gathering hotspots as it was in BETA1? Give as examples not just we will do sth...
      • We will buff the rewards for PvP objectives - Rewards will be free to get if there will be no players....
      • We will shift a good chunk of the economic focus from gathering to PvP/PvE, such that both activities are needed - How and than? this is just abstract... Give as examples not just we will do sth...
      Post release (or possibly during final beta), we will - Please fix your current game before even working on new stuffs, players posting threads how game is different than previous test. You should pretty much stop wasting ur time giving new broken candies and fix what was FLASLEWS before...

      [i]Once again i will tell my personal view what is wrong whit this beta - its has huge gap in progression and thats because we have those yellow/red zones simple destroyed pvp aspect and force all players to move in to END GAME black zone without any rule without any learning curve or progression. [/i]

      To OP "what audience they a looking for" i would say EVE-ONLINE players, because this beta has A LOT similarity and doesnt feels like it working on such type of game (I may be wrong but u wont get many players whit this audience).
    • Arkens schrieb:

      'Introduce a PvP Arena for practice matches and player run challenges/tournaments'

      Goodbye pvp open world


      ;( ;( ;( ;(
      training your build, testing new builds is a totally different story than open world pvp
      also, if players would be more comfortable with their build, than they would jump to open world pvp scenarios more often. Now this confort never will be supported by the nowadays existing gear switching, out gearing duel scams.
      Training arenas with item power cap is a have to! And believe it or not, it will serve the open world player vs player events as well.

      But honestly, just imagine:
      -a player decide to start pvp'ing
      -he accept a few duels in a populated town where he will be beaten as a dog due to item power
      -he has no chance to make proper testing due to different builds, since he would need to unlock the use of all t6 and also buy every kind of t5.4, 6.2, 6.3 gear weapon, since that's the average dueling gear lvl after a few weeks of beta....

      Now, known this scenario, what do you think, what will be the next step of that player? gear up fast in his best gear and starting to lurk in black zone in hope of some full loot match? : )
    • Cartographer schrieb:

      Arkens schrieb:

      'Introduce a PvP Arena for practice matches and player run challenges/tournaments'

      Goodbye pvp open world


      ;( ;( ;( ;(
      training your build, testing new builds is a totally different story than open world pvpalso, if players would be more comfortable with their build, than they would jump to open world pvp scenarios more often. Now this confort never will be supported by the nowadays existing gear switching, out gearing duel scams.
      Training arenas with item power cap is a have to! And believe it or not, it will serve the open world player vs player events as well.

      But honestly, just imagine:
      -a player decide to start pvp'ing
      -he accept a few duels in a populated town where he will be beaten as a dog due to item power
      -he has no chance to make proper testing due to different builds, since he would need to unlock the use of all t6 and also buy every kind of t5.4, 6.2, 6.3 gear weapon, since that's the average dueling gear lvl after a few weeks of beta....

      Now, known this scenario, what do you think, what will be the next step of that player? gear up fast in his best gear and starting to lurk in black zone in hope of some full loot match? : )
      WE HAD ARENA FFS BETA1 YELLOW ZONE BLOODBATH TEST WHATEVER YOU WANT
    • Dragis schrieb:

      Cartographer schrieb:

      Arkens schrieb:

      'Introduce a PvP Arena for practice matches and player run challenges/tournaments'

      Goodbye pvp open world


      ;( ;( ;( ;(
      training your build, testing new builds is a totally different story than open world pvpalso, if players would be more comfortable with their build, than they would jump to open world pvp scenarios more often. Now this confort never will be supported by the nowadays existing gear switching, out gearing duel scams.Training arenas with item power cap is a have to! And believe it or not, it will serve the open world player vs player events as well.

      But honestly, just imagine:
      -a player decide to start pvp'ing
      -he accept a few duels in a populated town where he will be beaten as a dog due to item power
      -he has no chance to make proper testing due to different builds, since he would need to unlock the use of all t6 and also buy every kind of t5.4, 6.2, 6.3 gear weapon, since that's the average dueling gear lvl after a few weeks of beta....

      Now, known this scenario, what do you think, what will be the next step of that player? gear up fast in his best gear and starting to lurk in black zone in hope of some full loot match? : )
      WE HAD ARENA FFS BETA1 YELLOW ZONE BLOODBATH TEST WHATEVER YOU WANT
      that's all good, but you can not test out new builds by being raped the few who started to play the game 20+ days befor you, so they hardly out gearing you. Maybe it's super fun for the few who dominating the zone but the rest will just leave the game... and if not, you can be sure, that they never in their life will leave the safe zone! No fixed item power arena = no benchmark across builds.

      it's all about simple logic: I would like to test new builds, if I find one that suits me I start to lvl up that line and grind to have a high tier set of it what I will use out there JUST if all my calculations suggest me that it's a right decision and no matter who will jump on me, I will know what to do, how to react, I will recognize the build that he use and I will know how to counter his skills. If someone just leave the safe zone without any combat knowledge, it can have 2 reasons: 1) he is bored and do not care 2) he is brain damaged

      So due to this two reasons and the mentioned above facts, all pvp player should cross their fingers for a nice arena, since what a pvp player it is, who wanna outplay brain damaged persons using one benefit: out gearing them : D
    • They keep saying Albion is like EVE so don't fly what you can't afford to loose. There is money to be made out in the "DANGER ZONE". Just gear down and go get some. Yeah I've got some nice stuff to grind dungeons with but all yall have plenty of junk in that chest just sitting there all sad and rusting.

      I'm a little disapointed cuz I haven't been jumped yet. Go test the limits of the game and give the devs some data to work with. Try some builds now so when asteroid wipe hits Albion you know what you lIke. Although they may change things at any time.

      If you can't have fun in Albion I fear you may not be part of the target audience. If you need non stop pvp join an active guild or just play LOL, DOTA, Smite ect. If you're a scoundrel lurking alone in the shadows do that. You want to craft the best sharp sticks ever do that. Or better yet do all of the above, except play LOL, seriously man, don't do that.
    • Cartographer schrieb:

      Dragis schrieb:

      Cartographer schrieb:

      Arkens schrieb:

      'Introduce a PvP Arena for practice matches and player run challenges/tournaments'

      Goodbye pvp open world


      ;( ;( ;( ;(
      training your build, testing new builds is a totally different story than open world pvpalso, if players would be more comfortable with their build, than they would jump to open world pvp scenarios more often. Now this confort never will be supported by the nowadays existing gear switching, out gearing duel scams.Training arenas with item power cap is a have to! And believe it or not, it will serve the open world player vs player events as well.
      But honestly, just imagine:
      -a player decide to start pvp'ing
      -he accept a few duels in a populated town where he will be beaten as a dog due to item power
      -he has no chance to make proper testing due to different builds, since he would need to unlock the use of all t6 and also buy every kind of t5.4, 6.2, 6.3 gear weapon, since that's the average dueling gear lvl after a few weeks of beta....

      Now, known this scenario, what do you think, what will be the next step of that player? gear up fast in his best gear and starting to lurk in black zone in hope of some full loot match? : )
      WE HAD ARENA FFS BETA1 YELLOW ZONE BLOODBATH TEST WHATEVER YOU WANT
      that's all good, but you can not test out new builds by being raped the few who started to play the game 20+ days befor you, so they hardly out gearing you. Maybe it's super fun for the few who dominating the zone but the rest will just leave the game... and if not, you can be sure, that they never in their life will leave the safe zone! No fixed item power arena = no benchmark across builds.
      it's all about simple logic: I would like to test new builds, if I find one that suits me I start to lvl up that line and grind to have a high tier set of it what I will use out there JUST if all my calculations suggest me that it's a right decision and no matter who will jump on me, I will know what to do, how to react, I will recognize the build that he use and I will know how to counter his skills. If someone just leave the safe zone without any combat knowledge, it can have 2 reasons: 1) he is bored and do not care 2) he is brain damaged

      So due to this two reasons and the mentioned above facts, all pvp player should cross their fingers for a nice arena, since what a pvp player it is, who wanna outplay brain damaged persons using one benefit: out gearing them : D
      Either you new players either you WOW lover.

      Beta1 yellow zone was SOFT caped to 4.3 / 5.2 / 6.1. This gear is common. This gear to wear ~3h fame to farm.
      Yellow zone aint full loot pvp. Yellow zone pvp was most common in beta1 cause most ppl went for couple specific dungeons as 5 members. SO there was every fuckin day 5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5.............Or hop from town and do 1v1v1v1v2v2v2v2v3v3v3v3v4v4v4v4vXVXVXVXV

      But no better insert Reputation system fuck everything and start working on INSTANCED ARENA OH YEAH
    • Dragis schrieb:

      Cartographer schrieb:

      Dragis schrieb:

      Cartographer schrieb:

      Arkens schrieb:

      'Introduce a PvP Arena for practice matches and player run challenges/tournaments'

      Goodbye pvp open world


      ;( ;( ;( ;(
      training your build, testing new builds is a totally different story than open world pvpalso, if players would be more comfortable with their build, than they would jump to open world pvp scenarios more often. Now this confort never will be supported by the nowadays existing gear switching, out gearing duel scams.Training arenas with item power cap is a have to! And believe it or not, it will serve the open world player vs player events as well.But honestly, just imagine:
      -a player decide to start pvp'ing
      -he accept a few duels in a populated town where he will be beaten as a dog due to item power
      -he has no chance to make proper testing due to different builds, since he would need to unlock the use of all t6 and also buy every kind of t5.4, 6.2, 6.3 gear weapon, since that's the average dueling gear lvl after a few weeks of beta....

      Now, known this scenario, what do you think, what will be the next step of that player? gear up fast in his best gear and starting to lurk in black zone in hope of some full loot match? : )
      WE HAD ARENA FFS BETA1 YELLOW ZONE BLOODBATH TEST WHATEVER YOU WANT
      that's all good, but you can not test out new builds by being raped the few who started to play the game 20+ days befor you, so they hardly out gearing you. Maybe it's super fun for the few who dominating the zone but the rest will just leave the game... and if not, you can be sure, that they never in their life will leave the safe zone! No fixed item power arena = no benchmark across builds.it's all about simple logic: I would like to test new builds, if I find one that suits me I start to lvl up that line and grind to have a high tier set of it what I will use out there JUST if all my calculations suggest me that it's a right decision and no matter who will jump on me, I will know what to do, how to react, I will recognize the build that he use and I will know how to counter his skills. If someone just leave the safe zone without any combat knowledge, it can have 2 reasons: 1) he is bored and do not care 2) he is brain damaged

      So due to this two reasons and the mentioned above facts, all pvp player should cross their fingers for a nice arena, since what a pvp player it is, who wanna outplay brain damaged persons using one benefit: out gearing them : D
      Either you new players either you WOW lover.
      Beta1 yellow zone was SOFT caped to 4.3 / 5.2 / 6.1. This gear is common. This gear to wear ~3h fame to farm.
      Yellow zone aint full loot pvp. Yellow zone pvp was most common in beta1 cause most ppl went for couple specific dungeons as 5 members. SO there was every fuckin day 5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5v5.............Or hop from town and do 1v1v1v1v2v2v2v2v3v3v3v3v4v4v4v4vXVXVXVXV

      But no better insert Reputation system fuck everything and start working on INSTANCED ARENA OH YEAH
      ah so it had a gear cap, or better to say item power lvl cap. In this case it can work. Still I believe that an arena where ppl can make proper build tests is needed. From the other side, why not to have a zone with item power cap as a fun jail fights simulator : P
      I did not played alpha or earlier test versions, so yea I'm a new player by playing this beta. I always hated WoW where you have no other goal just grind for the cap gear in a bob track. That's why I played Darkfall since 2009 where a naked player was able to kill a geared one, or 1 was able to handle 4... since the game was playerskill based. But I guess we can accept that games like WoW where mindless, monoton grinding for your gear and levels means everything are a big waste of time ;)