Frost Staff Under-powered

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    • Frost Staff Under-powered

      I truly think the current frost staffs are in a terrible state right now (probably fire as well, but someone else can make that post).

      Most people running it - like myself - will be inclined to wear light armor as it is supposed to be the most damage output but least amount of protection. The problem is the damage output is severely lacking, especially when you consider the lack of mobility available to a frost staff wielder. Strictly speaking in terms of damage there's no reason to take a frost staff over a curse staff.

      Now that's all fine and dandy if the frost staff brought more to the table to compensate, and I think it tries to present itself that way by being a control mage with cc just like many other frost mages in countless other games. However it's execution as a control mage with cc is underwhelming.

      Let's take a look at the the frost staff's cc.
      1. 20% slow from frostbolt (Q) Mild form of cc with a slow.
      2. Frost nova (W) It takes a strong will to choose this over Frost Bomb as the damage is minuscule but a good form of cc. If you use Frost bomb, it does have a 30% slow which is nice, but is not easy to land with the delay on the spell.
      3. A 2 second root every 4th auto attack (passive) This sounds really good in theory, but is actually quite useless as a form of cc other than chasing down running targets that are already essentially dead men walking. The damage you would receive in the amount of time it takes takes get off a root would be significantly in the enemies favor - even if the enemy chose not use any spells and just auto'd as well since the frost staff hits are really low compared to other weapon autos. If you do land the root, you can't combo it with anything other than just a frostbolt since the root is very short - and once landed you still have to move further away as they are most likely in auto range when you get it off (vs melee). This passive is a great idea, but I believe it needs a buff somewhere - either lowering the count to every third auto or increasing the root time because right now it does very little for the identity of a frost staff user.
      4. The last spell worth mentioning is freezing wind - the 1h staff (E) This is probably the best cc the frost staff tier has to offer as it is a medium ranged freeze/root. Taking the 1h staff though does drop your overall damage from spells and overall potential damage as the other (E) choices have more potential damage.
      Everything a frost staff user has in it's toolkit is out shined and out classed by other forms of cc/dmg. Keep in mind only 3 and 4 are hard cc and minimal at best.

      The main issue I have is that the frost staff only brings roots to the table as it's cc, and the root is sub-par as they immediately break on damage received. Most people are running the melee weapons that have stuns and roots that are much more effective that don't break on damage and last 5-7 seconds, even the warbow has a stun. It is pretty easy for a warbow user to kite melee, but nearly impossible for a frost staff to do the same. Out of the many staff choices none of them have a long range stun or an equivalent form of cc. I think staff users should have a stun as well to balance that out, and if any class fits the role it feels like frost (there's a case to be made for fire as well).

      A frost mage seems like it should shine in small group pvp but at the moment melee weapons have more range, mobility, and even utility. Currently the only thing a frost staff is good for is aoe dps, and it's mostly only used in pve or very large zerg pvp. I know the frost (and fire) artifacts are going to be introduced soon, but even though it may have heavy damage and cc, the baseline frost staffs are still under-performing compared to other baseline weapons right now.

      Also as a side-note, the cleric cowl's knock back spell range (force field) hitting is incredibly small. Many of the melee weapon auto attacks have a range greater than the spell ability and when you choose this spell to self peel - use it while someone is on top of your face with autos and it misses - you just wanna cry.


      TLDR: The damage a frost staff outputs is sub-par compared to other weapons, the cc it offers does not equalize it's lack of damage.

      I have yet to see a frost staff used in a gvg as it's just not as competitively viable.


      Please share your constructive criticism and thoughts.
    • Gank schrieb:

      Fire staff is underpowered? The fuck? Frost is lacking in cc but dmg?

      What
      I'm letting someone else take the reigns for a fire staff thread as I stopped using it at t3, but I do believe it to be weak as well.

      The auto attack damage on frost staff is very low, and the raw dps from it's main ability frostbolt does not compete with other main abilities especially when you consider it's short range and the amount of re-positioning required. I'm okay with the low damage if there is more cc in it's kit, but what it has currently isn't enough.

      So yes, in my opinion the frost staff is severely lacking raw damage output compared to other weapons at the moment and with it's small amount of cc it is leading as the most non viable play-style. Not the best example, but look at the top 150 fame farmed for caster weapons:
      1. Cursed Staff - 10
      2. Arcane Staff - 8
      3. Fire Staff - 3
      4. Frost Staff - 2
      I don't know a better example to show short of making a video, but who has the time for that?
    • Frost staff aoe does more dps but less slow than the main q. But new ppassives make speed casting viable as well. I think frost has amazing dmg and scaling, it just suffers from shitty cc . Remove roots and increase slows.

      As for fire it's beyond wild dps at the moment. Mana hungry and able to dish out mad dmg. Just because people don't want to play it does not mean it's UP. Fire wall is also one of the most versatile group pvp moves atm.
    • Gank schrieb:

      Just because people don't want to play it does not mean it's UP.
      We might have a different thought process here because I think people do want to play frost (and fire), but it's just not competing with the other caster dps options.

      In mmos where you can chose your stats people will min/max and gravitate towards the best possible options, and the differences between arcane+curse vs frost/fire are vast. I'm obviously biased in my opinion here but I think the top 150 farmed fame for weapons is enough proof to warrant taking a look at some numbers/skill adjustments.
    • Gank schrieb:

      Fire is vastly superior to curse dps this test. Curse is a solid support weapon now for the most part.
      Even if you do consider curse a support weapon instead of a damage weapon, what do you call a frost weapon that does less damage than both? I can hardly see a justification in classifying it as a damage weapon right now.

      Again, my main concern in this post isn't fire - it's frost.
    • I dont know either why the root of Frost Staff is broken on dmg, while every other root isn't.

      The problem with Frost Staves is that they don't shine in any way, in fact, they are too behind in every way. Low dmg. Low cc. Zero utility.

      To get them in a good position::

      • Root can't break on dmg.
      • Higher range on the Q to make slow easier or buff the slow.
      • New spells that bring Frost Staves some clear role: Arcane is so useful in support role, Curse is viable in dmg/support role, Fire is viable in dmg role, but Frost can't do any of those roles.
    • ^

      That video only confirms that Frost is underpowered, probably your intention was to prove it's viable.

      When you chase the Warbow user, he runs faster than you even when you slow him with your Q (useless slow).

      When you spam your Q to damage people, they don't get almost any dmg and the slow in close combat is useless. If you would have a Fire Staff there, the Q spam would have been so powerful.

      Your W is dodged so often, so you are missing dmg/CC because of that.

      Your E maybe hits once, but not twice.




      (What is that 23:05 glitch? Hope you have reported that, or you are just using that on your benefit?)
    • Neshert schrieb:

      ^

      That video only confirms that Frost is underpowered, probably your intention was to prove it's viable.

      When you chase the Warbow user, he runs faster than you even when you slow him with your Q (useless slow).

      When you spam your Q to damage people, they don't get almost any dmg and the slow in close combat is useless. If you would have a Fire Staff there, the Q spam would have been so powerful.

      Your W is dodged so often, so you are missing dmg/CC because of that.

      Your E maybe hits once, but not twice.




      (What is that 23:05 glitch? Hope you have reported that, or you are just using that on your benefit?)
      Was about to say the same thing.

      I'm not sure your reasoning for posting the video and I don't know if that's you playing or not, but the frost user in this video did absolutely shit all to win this gvg.

      This is one of those gvgs where everyone just runs around back-capping everything and it could have been done by any build and probably done better.

      The 1v1 fight at the north capture point vs the curse staff he ran away from because frost doesn't beat curse 1v1, the one guy he knocked down was beaten within inches of his life by the dual blades and was an easy finish. The rest was running around casting frost-bolts on targets running away, not landing 80% of frost bombs, and getting pummeled a couple times.

      Also need to mention War Legend was running a frost as well basically cancelling each other out in terms of non-factors. Although we don't get to see his point of view, I'm willing to bet he didn't do anything special for his team either.
    • RoyalCat schrieb:

      You have more chance to get into blue dun group than a claymore user. One can do god in dun farm shouldn't be OP in PvP.
      We are not talking about being OP, we want it to be viable at least, like very weapon. I don't even play Frost Staff right now, but I want every weapon to be viable both in pve/pvp. Some will do better in pve, some in pve. But at least be viable.

      And by the way, weapons that are so powerful both in dungeons and pvp: Nature, Arcane, Fire..