Frost Staff Under-powered

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    • Agreed. I think thefrost line had major buffs but still, no E's on frost staffs are good enough. Too little damage, too little cc. It stands out on nothing. Compare frost to warbow, which people already claim to suck.
      The Q on frost has 50% less damage and the same cast time. The w of the bow gives 40% slow, as frost bomb did. And the E is an aoe stun thats does more damage and better cc than the one handed frost.
      Frost is a tricky class.
    • Neshert schrieb:

      GMANG schrieb:

      Okay here it is.

      I was standing in Redwater(Blackzone)
      with 6.2 and 6.3 gears.
      I have mastery level 8 on my great staff and mastery level 7 on mage chest and level 8 on soldier boots and level 8 on assasin hood.
      I was dueling a new guy 5.2 gears Fire staff single hand with book He stated he had mastery level 1 brand new.
      He beat me 3 times I bet him once with around 40 hp.
      So tell me if Fire too op is frost so shit its disgusting.
      The glacial is a joke for elite mobs even t4 elites now they run thorugh it.
      How can myself who has ground for many months crafted my skill with frost be rewarded by being beaten by a tier less at least and on average 6-7 levels of mastery below me.
      How is this possible?
      How is this balanced?
      WTF is going on?
      If you think it is lack of skill on my part think again.
      If you feel I am complaining then you are right.
      Why cannot you people fix this?
      BTW the single hand not the relic the actual single hand frost is a joke!

      Regards,

      G.
      You can't compare a full damage dealer (fire) with a damage/support (frost) in 1v1. Frost in 1v1 is just SO bad, you can't beat anyone. It's useful in group fights, the funny thing is that fire staff is even more useful in groups than frost. So well, frost is underpowered, but you can't test it dueling because you won't win a duel with it.
      I guess my kill fame must be an illusion then.

      Glacial is still good for castle fights although so is firewall.
      It was supprot although they are reducing the slows (esp frost bomb) apart from beam and that makes you static and range is not good so its pretty useless.
      A healer is support and they are OP at killing they should be able to sustain and give heals although not sustain and kill.

      I know this if you dont like this thread then its overlooked as the likes are what is weighed by the devs.
      I dont want them too debuf things they need to boost.
      Regards,

      G.
    • Neshert schrieb:

      You can't compare a full damage dealer (fire) with a damage/support (frost) in 1v1. Frost in 1v1 is just SO bad, you can't beat anyone. It's useful in group fights, the funny thing is that fire staff is even more useful in groups than frost. So well, frost is underpowered, but you can't test it dueling because you won't win a duel with it.
      I agree you can't truly gauge how well a weapon is based on 1v1s alone, but like you said fire outshines it in any situation. Frost either needs more damage to be in line with fire, or reworked to be more support oriented.

      Ideally every weapon should do well vs another, when frost is just shit vs everything you know it's time for a buff.
    • Eternalhaze schrieb:

      Neshert schrieb:

      You can't compare a full damage dealer (fire) with a damage/support (frost) in 1v1. Frost in 1v1 is just SO bad, you can't beat anyone. It's useful in group fights, the funny thing is that fire staff is even more useful in groups than frost. So well, frost is underpowered, but you can't test it dueling because you won't win a duel with it.
      I agree you can't truly gauge how well a weapon is based on 1v1s alone, but like you said fire outshines it in any situation. Frost either needs more damage to be in line with fire, or reworked to be more support oriented.
      Ideally every weapon should do well vs another, when frost is just shit vs everything you know it's time for a buff.
      i mean i would strongly disagree with this statement.
      1) Fire outshines it in only 1 situation and thats DPS. Frost easily outshines it in CC potential and holds its own in the AOE combat not with dmg but with CC(icicle,glacial vs magma sphere/meteor dps)
      2) If frost got more damage(which it already got buffed for more dmg) then it would be doing as much dps as fire and have incredible cc making it no point to use fire....or any other staff for that matter.

      The basic idea here is that you wont win many 1v1's with frost, because its like you said "or reworked to be more support oriented." it is already a support oriented weapon. Its NOW capable of being in GvG's and has been in gvgs and when used properly those GvG's have been victories. The staff is great, do i think its perfect? no, do i think certain staffs from that line need a buff or rework? yes, like the glacial that has lost its way due to icicle replacing its usefulness or the great frosts E needing a slow buff on it, things like frost bomb now does very good aoe dmg and slows.... snowball staff is used in so many ZvZ/castle fights and icicle can be very viable in almost any situation, so yes the staff line is viable its just not the super duper dps/cc/support/carry weapon, it does one thing and one thing well, its a great CC monster weapon line that every team needs.
    • Eternalhaze schrieb:

      I truly think the current frost staffs are in a terrible state right now (probably fire as well, but someone else can make that post).

      Most people running it - like myself - will be inclined to wear light armor as it is supposed to be the most damage output but least amount of protection. The problem is the damage output is severely lacking, especially when you consider the lack of mobility available to a frost staff wielder. Strictly speaking in terms of damage there's no reason to take a frost staff over a curse staff.

      Now that's all fine and dandy if the frost staff brought more to the table to compensate, and I think it tries to present itself that way by being a control mage with cc just like many other frost mages in countless other games. However it's execution as a control mage with cc is underwhelming.

      Let's take a look at the the frost staff's cc.
      1. 20% slow from frostbolt (Q) Mild form of cc with a slow.
      2. Frost nova (W) It takes a strong will to choose this over Frost Bomb as the damage is minuscule but a good form of cc. If you use Frost bomb, it does have a 30% slow which is nice, but is not easy to land with the delay on the spell.
      3. A 2 second root every 4th auto attack (passive) This sounds really good in theory, but is actually quite useless as a form of cc other than chasing down running targets that are already essentially dead men walking. The damage you would receive in the amount of time it takes takes get off a root would be significantly in the enemies favor - even if the enemy chose not use any spells and just auto'd as well since the frost staff hits are really low compared to other weapon autos. If you do land the root, you can't combo it with anything other than just a frostbolt since the root is very short - and once landed you still have to move further away as they are most likely in auto range when you get it off (vs melee). This passive is a great idea, but I believe it needs a buff somewhere - either lowering the count to every third auto or increasing the root time because right now it does very little for the identity of a frost staff user.
      4. The last spell worth mentioning is freezing wind - the 1h staff (E) This is probably the best cc the frost staff tier has to offer as it is a medium ranged freeze/root. Taking the 1h staff though does drop your overall damage from spells and overall potential damage as the other (E) choices have more potential damage.
      Everything a frost staff user has in it's toolkit is out shined and out classed by other forms of cc/dmg. Keep in mind only 3 and 4 are hard cc and minimal at best.

      The main issue I have is that the frost staff only brings roots to the table as it's cc, and the root is sub-par as they immediately break on damage received. Most people are running the melee weapons that have stuns and roots that are much more effective that don't break on damage and last 5-7 seconds, even the warbow has a stun. It is pretty easy for a warbow user to kite melee, but nearly impossible for a frost staff to do the same. Out of the many staff choices none of them have a long range stun or an equivalent form of cc. I think staff users should have a stun as well to balance that out, and if any class fits the role it feels like frost (there's a case to be made for fire as well).

      A frost mage seems like it should shine in small group pvp but at the moment melee weapons have more range, mobility, and even utility. Currently the only thing a frost staff is good for is aoe dps, and it's mostly only used in pve or very large zerg pvp. I know the frost (and fire) artifacts are going to be introduced soon, but even though it may have heavy damage and cc, the baseline frost staffs are still under-performing compared to other baseline weapons right now.

      Also as a side-note, the cleric cowl's knock back spell range (force field) hitting is incredibly small. Many of the melee weapon auto attacks have a range greater than the spell ability and when you choose this spell to self peel - use it while someone is on top of your face with autos and it misses - you just wanna cry.


      TLDR: The damage a frost staff outputs is sub-par compared to other weapons, the cc it offers does not equalize it's lack of damage.

      I have yet to see a frost staff used in a gvg as it's just not as competitively viable.


      Please share your constructive criticism and thoughts.
      dont forget the arcane staff friend... I remember the days when Frost staff where glorious af
    • Neshert schrieb:

      Frost staff needs mostly the 0:02 spell (Ice Wall) or the 0:08 spell (Ice pillar).
      the ice pillar is a pretty cool spell, it knockback a little bit (so you can cancel channelings) and also slows around

      Bajoli schrieb:

      i don't think the top 20 of kill fame players is having one single icestaf in it...
      20 top kill fame atm are players ganking in Black Forest... ranking right now is not a good reference about this topic

      Substanz_D schrieb:

      Insert @HypeRNT 's pvp videos where he uses the frost staff.
      he uses icicle for some openworld pvp but I don't remember if I recorded any other video that he uses frosts... this one is in a GvG where he did pretty well, I felt that the frost was really useful
      note: this fight happened before the recent frost buffs

    • EricWer schrieb:

      Neshert schrieb:

      Frost staff needs mostly the 0:02 spell (Ice Wall) or the 0:08 spell (Ice pillar).
      the ice pillar is a pretty cool spell, it knockback a little bit (so you can cancel channelings) and also slows around

      Bajoli schrieb:

      i don't think the top 20 of kill fame players is having one single icestaf in it...
      20 top kill fame atm are players ganking in Black Forest... ranking right now is not a good reference about this topic

      Substanz_D schrieb:

      Insert @HypeRNT 's pvp videos where he uses the frost staff.
      he uses icicle for some openworld pvp but I don't remember if I recorded any other video that he uses frosts... this one is in a GvG where he did pretty well, I felt that the frost was really usefulnote: this fight happened before the recent frost buffs


      U do know that is a hellgate frost staff right.
      Of course that would be useful.

      G.
    • Neshert schrieb:

      GMANG schrieb:

      U do know that is a hellgate frost staff right.Of course that would be useful.

      G.
      HAHAHAHAHAA. Hellgate = insta useful? Look at Hellgate's Bow, for example. Haters gonna hate.
      Considering the Nature build that can solo a t7 hellgate entry boss kinda makes you wonder how balanced things are.
      If My build is speciality for slows where are they otherclasses have better slows now with more distance for auto's.
      I would like to see how a hellgate artifact makes this worthwhile.
      I have nearly all 10 mastery in what I wear and still underpowered.

      G.
    • GMANG schrieb:

      EricWer schrieb:

      Neshert schrieb:

      Frost staff needs mostly the 0:02 spell (Ice Wall) or the 0:08 spell (Ice pillar).
      the ice pillar is a pretty cool spell, it knockback a little bit (so you can cancel channelings) and also slows around

      Bajoli schrieb:

      i don't think the top 20 of kill fame players is having one single icestaf in it...
      20 top kill fame atm are players ganking in Black Forest... ranking right now is not a good reference about this topic

      Substanz_D schrieb:

      Insert @HypeRNT 's pvp videos where he uses the frost staff.
      he uses icicle for some openworld pvp but I don't remember if I recorded any other video that he uses frosts... this one is in a GvG where he did pretty well, I felt that the frost was really usefulnote: this fight happened before the recent frost buffs

      U do know that is a hellgate frost staff right.Of course that would be useful.

      G.
      so whats the issue lol? like with the exception of glacial staff which everyone knows is the weakest staff from that line the rest are very decent. The one handed staff has constant CC with a very short cd on its e E that is aoe ive seen it used very efficiently. The great frost staff is very close to being good, like one more small buff away and the icicle is awesome in almost any situation besides 1v1, its a staff line that has gotten much love with every patch pretty much.
      If the glacial gets a rework or a big buff, you will probably be looking at the strongest staff line in the game, assuming nothing else changes.
    • HypeRNT schrieb:

      GMANG schrieb:

      EricWer schrieb:

      Neshert schrieb:

      Frost staff needs mostly the 0:02 spell (Ice Wall) or the 0:08 spell (Ice pillar).
      the ice pillar is a pretty cool spell, it knockback a little bit (so you can cancel channelings) and also slows around

      Bajoli schrieb:

      i don't think the top 20 of kill fame players is having one single icestaf in it...
      20 top kill fame atm are players ganking in Black Forest... ranking right now is not a good reference about this topic

      Substanz_D schrieb:

      Insert @HypeRNT 's pvp videos where he uses the frost staff.
      he uses icicle for some openworld pvp but I don't remember if I recorded any other video that he uses frosts... this one is in a GvG where he did pretty well, I felt that the frost was really usefulnote: this fight happened before the recent frost buffs
      U do know that is a hellgate frost staff right.Of course that would be useful.
      G.
      so whats the issue lol? like with the exception of glacial staff which everyone knows is the weakest staff from that line the rest are very decent. The one handed staff has constant CC with a very short cd on its e E that is aoe ive seen it used very efficiently. The great frost staff is very close to being good, like one more small buff away and the icicle is awesome in almost any situation besides 1v1, its a staff line that has gotten much love with every patch pretty much.If the glacial gets a rework or a big buff, you will probably be looking at the strongest staff line in the game, assuming nothing else changes.
      The issue not the tissue is this,
      The glacial is dead.
      The one handed freeze does not stop peeps from casting the slows are still shit on frost bomb its now 20%.
      The beam is static so you have to stand still pretty much usless unless in a group.
      The hail should have a 10% slow.
      All other staffs are better IMHO I actually do not want and nerfs on other staffs I would like to see a mastery of 20 levels and to have 30 mastery per level specefic and 10 for other inline equipment and also a unlock at mastery level 5 and 10 as stated I have nearly unlocked mastery 10 in all I wear and its so underpowered its sad.
      It used to be so op with 7.6 gears the way its meant to be.
      Ice is for slows and they took the slows from bomb and also the mobs mainly elites have too much cc and hp for t5 and t6.
      I understand that t7 and t8 should be tough although its actually a tactic of slowing game progression and they reduce enjoyment from limiting people's unlocks and gears.
      Hard earnt fame and time should equall reward the single hand btw vs and other single hand gets eaten.
      If anyone thinks they know the frost better show me :P.


      G.G.
    • GMANG schrieb:

      HypeRNT schrieb:

      GMANG schrieb:

      EricWer schrieb:

      Neshert schrieb:

      Frost staff needs mostly the 0:02 spell (Ice Wall) or the 0:08 spell (Ice pillar).
      the ice pillar is a pretty cool spell, it knockback a little bit (so you can cancel channelings) and also slows around

      Bajoli schrieb:

      i don't think the top 20 of kill fame players is having one single icestaf in it...
      20 top kill fame atm are players ganking in Black Forest... ranking right now is not a good reference about this topic

      Substanz_D schrieb:

      Insert @HypeRNT 's pvp videos where he uses the frost staff.
      he uses icicle for some openworld pvp but I don't remember if I recorded any other video that he uses frosts... this one is in a GvG where he did pretty well, I felt that the frost was really usefulnote: this fight happened before the recent frost buffs
      U do know that is a hellgate frost staff right.Of course that would be useful.G.
      so whats the issue lol? like with the exception of glacial staff which everyone knows is the weakest staff from that line the rest are very decent. The one handed staff has constant CC with a very short cd on its e E that is aoe ive seen it used very efficiently. The great frost staff is very close to being good, like one more small buff away and the icicle is awesome in almost any situation besides 1v1, its a staff line that has gotten much love with every patch pretty much.If the glacial gets a rework or a big buff, you will probably be looking at the strongest staff line in the game, assuming nothing else changes.
      The issue not the tissue is this,The glacial is dead.
      The one handed freeze does not stop peeps from casting the slows are still shit on frost bomb its now 20%.
      The beam is static so you have to stand still pretty much usless unless in a group.
      The hail should have a 10% slow.
      All other staffs are better IMHO I actually do not want and nerfs on other staffs I would like to see a mastery of 20 levels and to have 30 mastery per level specefic and 10 for other inline equipment and also a unlock at mastery level 5 and 10 as stated I have nearly unlocked mastery 10 in all I wear and its so underpowered its sad.
      It used to be so op with 7.6 gears the way its meant to be.
      Ice is for slows and they took the slows from bomb and also the mobs mainly elites have too much cc and hp for t5 and t6.
      I understand that t7 and t8 should be tough although its actually a tactic of slowing game progression and they reduce enjoyment from limiting people's unlocks and gears.
      Hard earnt fame and time should equall reward the single hand btw vs and other single hand gets eaten.
      If anyone thinks they know the frost better show me :P.


      G.G.
      I mean the glacial is dead is true, but its something well known for a test and a half now, so like a year? yes it needs a buff or a rework in general.

      One handed staff is a good weapon, its not great, but its a good weapon, its not a 1v1 destruction weapon, but it has its usefulness and ive seen it myself during PvP fights.

      Frost bomb did have its slow reduced, but it did also have a HUGE dmg buff, currently you have 3 slows on a frost staff with your q, w and E(icicle, glacial, one handed) plus a root passive if chosen so it does have CC.

      The beam is static, as are 80% of skills in albion.. as is cursed beam....or duel crossbow's E, its nothing new and it has very good slow and it can be used in group fights, its about the only place it can be used in.... its def not a 1v1 skill.

      The hail should have a slow on it, more then 10% since 10% is very little, i actually wish that if you got hit by both waves, you got rooted, its a punishment for being hit by both waves as you really shouldn't have too much trouble to block or run out of at least 1 of the waves.

      All other staffs are meant for different uses, in big zerg fights most frost staff's are sought upon because they are very useful so it depends what you want to accomplish with it. You cant hope for BIG dmg to solo all mobs with and win 1v1's but also have BIG slows, that would be called OP.

      They did reduce the slows with last patch which was a little strange, but it did get a pretty big boost in damage, and as stated the frost *line* has multiple useful and strong weapons that not only have been used in GvG's but are among the top weapons needed for Zerg fights.


      At the end of the day, this frost staff line has had like 3 buff's in a row, and i feel like its about 1 more buff away from being one of the strongest weapons in the game.
    • Neu

      mosqui schrieb:

      Hello,

      What do you think about latest status of frost staff line? Latest comment was made around january. Is it viable to use frost staves in GvG or other pvp contents?
      How is the latest damage compared to fire or curse line?
      After experimenting with it early this beta I do not think it's in a good place. While it's not completely unusable it's definitely much worse than the other staffs. Its damage is much lower than the curse and fire, which would be fine if its utility backed that up, however its slows are so small as to be nearly inconsequential and freezes (E on one hand, W on all) are roots which do not last nearly long enough to be effective.

      It definitely could use some love, I think it needs its slows slightly increased to actually matter and its freeze times extended greatly.

      Its lack of damage isn't a problem as its ostensibly supposed to provide utility over the fire staff, but it just doesn't provide enough.

      That's my opinion on it anyhow, granted I've not played near as much as many people.