*Outdated* Gathering Rework (Sneak Peek)

  • Reducing the spawn rates for higher tier resources in the world while at the same time introducing these gathering hotspots is an absolutely terrible idea.

    Right now, the game already has the "win more" mechanics as one of its biggest problems. If there is a guild with a large pool of members that are all dedicated and play a lot, then they already have a big advantage over smaller guilds. Right now, you already have a case of one "big fish" from each region dominating the black zones and slowly kicking out all of the smaller fish. And by doing so, they already get all the advantages of the black zone, which is easier higher tier farming and more production return on buildings etc. The big fish already has a big advantage, it's already winning and by giving them stuff like higher production return etc. just makes them "win more".
    Introducing these hotspots will only cause the big fish to roam and zerg these spots constantly to lock all the smaller fish out, leaving the big fish decked out in T7-T8 gear while the smaller fish are dumbed down to T6 at best, giving the big fish yet ANOTHER "win more" mechanic.

    If you want every region on the map being controlled by one big, dominating guild that locks out all other players from going to the black zone or being able to progress past T6 because of no hotspot access, then sure go ahead with this design choice. It will make the game die quickly. Every guild with some ambition that isn't the one big zerg guild will lose interest because they have no chance to gain any ground, and the one big "winning more" zerg guild that is solely holding its black zone region will start sending out T8 gank squads into the red zones out of boredom.

    If you ask me, having all T8 resources evenly spread out across zones is a chance for the smaller fish to gear up and have a chance at fighting for a black zone and gaining some ground. Making these hotspots will take that chance away from the smaller guilds, because it allows the one dominating guild do control these resources and these spots very easily, making them "win even more".

    My rant will probably not stop you from going into this direction, but mark my words now. This is an absolutely terrible idea.
  • Can you please not decrease the fame required for the T6, T7 and T8 tools?

    I liked all the changes you'll be updating to improve PvP and the respawn timer, but please, don't decrease the required fame to unlock tools just like the other Beta tests which everyone could easily gather all high end resources in few weeks. Let the good gatherers be proud of their effort and be pretty USEFUL, as they will be part of the few people who can sustain their guildmates with the best resources.
  • @Korn

    Final Beta was supposed to have everything more or less locked in and ready for release in 3-4 months. How the hell are you going to release in that timetable with 2 major reworks coming up and god knows what else after that? You did this last Beta too, your mods were mumbling 3-4 months until release and then the day you announced August is when 50% of the population stopped logging in and the rest dwindled down over time.

    Everything you're proposing caters to large guilds or alliance zergs. Smaller guilds, alliances, solo players - none of them will be able to sniff those nodes until the biggest dog had it's fill for the day and goes to sleep.

    - Why don't you copy over the "blob" mechanic, so that people can at least see there is a zerg in the zone?
    - Add more T6-T8 nodes throughout the maps containing them, so they're not clustered in 1 place for a 50 man group to harvest them from downtime to downtime?

    Whats next on your list of time-locked PVP hotspots? Arenas you can queue up for in towns? Give me a break and please go back to the drawing board, think less of PVP zergfest and think more of sandbox. Focus a little bit on content for solo and small guilds so that 2 years down the road I actually have someone to PVP against. You're not the first or the last game on the railroad to 2 powerblocks twiddling thumbs talking about the "good old days" when there were people to PVP against.

    Read this post because that is the future.

    Morkar wrote:

    Reducing the spawn rates for higher tier resources in the world while at the same time introducing these gathering hotspots is an absolutely terrible idea.

    Right now, the game already has the "win more" mechanics as one of its biggest problems. If there is a guild with a large pool of members that are all dedicated and play a lot, then they already have a big advantage over smaller guilds. Right now, you already have a case of one "big fish" from each region dominating the black zones and slowly kicking out all of the smaller fish. And by doing so, they already get all the advantages of the black zone, which is easier higher tier farming and more production return on buildings etc. The big fish already has a big advantage, it's already winning and by giving them stuff like higher production return etc. just makes them "win more".
    Introducing these hotspots will only cause the big fish to roam and zerg these spots constantly to lock all the smaller fish out, leaving the big fish decked out in T7-T8 gear while the smaller fish are dumbed down to T6 at best, giving the big fish yet ANOTHER "win more" mechanic.

    If you want every region on the map being controlled by one big, dominating guild that locks out all other players from going to the black zone or being able to progress past T6 because of no hotspot access, then sure go ahead with this design choice. It will make the game die quickly. Every guild with some ambition that isn't the one big zerg guild will lose interest because they have no chance to gain any ground, and the one big "winning more" zerg guild that is solely holding its black zone region will start sending out T8 gank squads into the red zones out of boredom.

    If you ask me, having all T8 resources evenly spread out across zones is a chance for the smaller fish to gear up and have a chance at fighting for a black zone and gaining some ground. Making these hotspots will take that chance away from the smaller guilds, because it allows the one dominating guild do control these resources and these spots very easily, making them "win even more".

    My rant will probably not stop you from going into this direction, but mark my words now. This is an absolutely terrible idea.
  • Korn wrote:

    EricWer wrote:

    Can you please not decrease the fame required for the T6, T7 and T8 tools?
    We would only decrease the unlock step, while making the mastery steps harder.
    And that's what worries me.
    I still upset that everybody will be easily ABLE to gather the SAME resource tier that a dedicated gatherer can. I just can't see what will be the point to be a true gatherer on this game. For me, doesn't matter if you have a 1/10 or 10/10 mastery... the ability to gather a different tier it's a huge achievement and shouldn't be something common.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by EricWer: Grammar. ().

  • Obviously this needs to be posted.

    A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks.


    Please take note, because your changes are not reflecting this and it's really pissing people off.
  • Thrandarian wrote:

    Obviously this needs to be posted.

    A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks.


    Please take note, because your changes are not reflecting this and it's really pissing people off.
    This ^
  • @Korn Please listen to the people who play this game you know they rarely say that someting is good but if they do trust them and the requirements to unlock the T6 T7 and T8 tools are fine atm DO NOT CHANGE THEM !!!!

    gurgo wrote:

    tools are at good place.

    Proxzor wrote:

    I think they want us to be done with our progression in two months, and quit in a year... tools are fine, no need to change it.

    ZaZii wrote:

    Unless you want people to hit t7 tools within the first week - keep the current gathering-requirements.

    tgx wrote:

    i think the fame needed to unlock tools is fine. bottom line is that people are able to gather like 2/3's of the available resources in the game, with people nearing unlocking the second to last tool in the first 3 weeks of the game. its fine

    Archiemedis wrote:

    And now you think about decreasing the fame for a profession, that should ALWAYS stay a main profession further down, so that pvp players have an even easier time becoming the most potent gatherers, rather than actual pve gatherers?

    HypeRNT wrote:

    oh god here we go again, please for the love of god dont make it too easy....

    Jessezze wrote:




    Also dont touch the tools I think they are fine at the moment.

    Kamui wrote:

    You are wrong @Korn what is glitched is fame requirements for everything beside Gathering.

    Severa wrote:

    first of all the fame for gathering is fine don't change it

    EricWer wrote:

    Can you please not decrease the fame required for the T6, T7 and T8 tools?
    This post is not even up for a day and these are just some of the comments!!
  • EricWer wrote:

    Korn wrote:

    EricWer wrote:

    Can you please not decrease the fame required for the T6, T7 and T8 tools?
    We would only decrease the unlock step, while making the mastery steps harder.
    And that's what worries me.I still upset that everybody will be easily ABLE to gather the SAME resource tier that a dedicated gatherer can. I just can't see what will the point to be a true gatherer on this game. For me, doesn't matter if you have a 1/10 or 10/10 mastery... the ability to gather a different tier it's a huge achievement and shouldn't be something common.
    Newsflash...this game isn't about hundreds of hours of mindless harvesting grind, gatherng thousands of resourced you won't need just to unlock harvesting the next tier that you do need. We've had harvesters go out with 3-4 tools and just harvest and delete everything just to speed up the pointless grind.

    People shouldn't be forced to create and share harvesting alts and use 100% of their LP towars ONE tool just to stay competitive.

    1 stone harvester alone can gather enough stone for 3-4 full t6 bases before he even hits the 20% LP usage mark towards t6 stone hammer. 15 full t7 bases before he even hits the 20% mark to t7 tool.

    If you want to mindlessly work for next to nothing you should just go to any 3rd world country and find a job.

    There is an easy way to make stuff rare - adjust the rarity and respawn timer on nodes.
    You don't make something rare by forcing everyone to go torugh 100h worth of mindless harvesting. Eventualy multiple people will get there and you will STILL have to adjust the rarity and respawn timer on nodes.
  • Hi @Korn - With highend resources so scarce there's definately a push to transmute more for top tier gear. As Transmuting is extremely expensive, bigger guilds have the advantage over smaller guilds not only because they have more gatherers but they are also actively and passively generating more silver to transmute. The game is therefore punishing smaller guilds with insane silver costs which either forces them to become bigger or exchange gold making the game pay to win. What are your thoughts on this and have you seen an increase in transmuting this beta compared with similar time frames of previous tests?

    Thanks
    Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
  • @Korn what about providing some indirect information about amount of players/visits in current map for red and black zones? Something like "amount of fame, farmed in last hour". In eve online there are a lot of possible filters on map, based on statistics, like amount of kills, podkills, farmed NPC, average amount players in space in last hour and other. The filters helps a lot small scale and solo pvp players to find proper destination for roam and making encounter of hunters and victums more easy (even if one group/solo dont want that meeting).
  • @Korn i would like to see myself playing like i did before, going out on my main too, instead of having to spend 9%% of the day on one alt gathering to fuel my wars...

    i was happy when i could go out with 4 tools and gather as i saw stuff that i wanted while i was looking to pvp/grind fame...

    you need to put those 2 worlds together like it was before...

    reaching end-game fast does not mean the game ends... we just bled players on the last beta and a few on this one as well it's because it is a beta... yet we still have a very good amount of players.

    forcing us to have alts to go out and gather sucks...

    Back in the day the smart way was to not spend points with crafting or gathering, and focus everything on combat, now its totally the opposite, super easy to get the mob fame and terrible to open the use of tolls to gather.
  • Korn wrote:

    tgx wrote:

    thats not how it works currently. the current mastery applies to all nodes as long as you use whatever tier tool you have mastery in. maybe you should try gathering a bit before posting shit eh?
    Hi tgx,

    please do not rant or flame, even more so if what you are flaming about is factually wrong.

    The current mastery levels for gathering yield apply to the tool used and not the resource gathered. In the current system, if you get your T6 axe to a high mastery, you get a bonus yield every time you gather something with that axe - no matter what tier the gathered resource has. In the new system, this will be based on the resource gathered - so you'd get a bonus yield every time you gathered T4, for example, no matter what tool you use.

    All the best,
    Korn
    Yes that is true. I don't have issue with that but I suggestion.

    Maybe I am wrong here and Have noticed this differently.

    But Say I need to get t4, t5 ,t6 (because of the refine mechanic) I carry a T4, T5, T6 tool on me. The T6 seems to get used on all nodes? So the mastery wont apply useless I equip the t4 tool just for the t4 node. Perhaps and maybe I am wrong but the game should say hey I am gathering t4 and have t4 tool in inventory and should use that tool instead of the t6 tool?
  • hajee wrote:

    Korn wrote:

    tgx wrote:

    thats not how it works currently. the current mastery applies to all nodes as long as you use whatever tier tool you have mastery in. maybe you should try gathering a bit before posting shit eh?
    Hi tgx,
    please do not rant or flame, even more so if what you are flaming about is factually wrong.

    The current mastery levels for gathering yield apply to the tool used and not the resource gathered. In the current system, if you get your T6 axe to a high mastery, you get a bonus yield every time you gather something with that axe - no matter what tier the gathered resource has. In the new system, this will be based on the resource gathered - so you'd get a bonus yield every time you gathered T4, for example, no matter what tool you use.

    All the best,
    Korn
    Yes that is true. I don't have issue with that but I suggestion.
    Maybe I am wrong here and Have noticed this differently.

    But Say I need to get t4, t5 ,t6 (because of the refine mechanic) I carry a T4, T5, T6 tool on me. The T6 seems to get used on all nodes? So the mastery wont apply useless I equip the t4 tool just for the t4 node. Perhaps and maybe I am wrong but the game should say hey I am gathering t4 and have t4 tool in inventory and should use that tool instead of the t6 tool?
    Lets say you have a t5 tool with mastery level 5/10 and a t6 tool with master level 3/10. When you are harvesting a t5.3 for example the game will compare your masteries for all tools that can harvest this node and will use the tool which have the highest mastery. So in this scenario it will use the t5 tool.
    Lets say it's the other way around - t5 tool with 5/10 and t6 tool with 7/10. When harvesting 5.3 node it should use the t6 tool.
  • hajee wrote:


    But Say I need to get t4, t5 ,t6 (because of the refine mechanic) I carry a T4, T5, T6 tool on me. The T6 seems to get used on all nodes? So the mastery wont apply useless I equip the t4 tool just for the t4 node. Perhaps and maybe I am wrong but the game should say hey I am gathering t4 and have t4 tool in inventory and should use that tool instead of the t6 tool?

    Currently, you'd just equip your T6 tool and get the yield bonus that you have on that T6 tool applied to all resources that you gather. This is why we want to change it from the tool level to the resource level.