Yellow Zone PvP

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  • I'm in agreement with Stannis.. eh Lensar on this. Currently there is no logical reason at all to ever flag up and PvP in a yellow zone (and barely any in a red zone). The only people fighting right now are farming negative reputation.. which is exactly what we don't want: High level players bashing low level players just to get reputation without any actual good PvP going on.

    Fair yellow zone PvP is not existant currently and unfair one isn't really a problem, the yellow zones are rather close to big towns with often dozens of players around that can help out.
  • Lensar wrote:

    Jababbo wrote:

    hy flag in a yellow zone and attack in first place? you cant gain any loot from the kill. It's just nothing more than trolling people, The person who flags in the yellow zone is a coward since he knows he can't
    loose his gear and only wants to grief people.
    Because they are competing for limited resources such as harvestable mats or mobs in a dungeon?

    You can't have heroes without there being villains. Those "cowards" provide a lot of fun and enjoyment for others who like to hunt them down.

    Last beta, there was a significant segment of the community that engaged in solo and small group pvp on a nightly basis, without the risk/reward of full loot pvp. Why take that away?


    I d agree for the most part. Calling the PK players across the board "cowards" indicates that you have misunderstood the whole concept of yellow/red/black areas. As the Devs once (I think it was in the reputation video) explained the act of self flagging indicates that there is a clear intent by the player to do criminal actions. That alone is enough to be viewed neutral at least. Just imagine our intelligence services in various countries would not observe certain groups of people. Lets say for example right extremist groups with the potential for hate crimes against other citizen or any other potential source of terrorism. Don't wanna move too far from the topic.

    I personally found it for example exciting to have a bit PvP yesterday near soem blue dungeons. A few players decided to PK people who wanted to farm the dungeons and killed quite a few (including my group). They did that for about 20 minutes until greater forces showed up to expulse them from the territory. To me it seemed that in the end all involved parties had fun cause it made the zone/world feel more alive, immersive (hope thats the right english word) and exciting. If one wants to farm in piece with no risk to be caught then the green safe zones are the best place to be. The yellow zones are designed to be somewhat 90% safe and create this little risk to be ambushed and slowed down in your progress. It offers opportunities for a mixture of "economic pvp warfare" in the 2 starter continents. An alliance of guilds could decide the wanna raise the price of certain T3-4 resources in a region and therefore siege the surroundings of a certain city etc. Their members would loose reputation but at the same time they d be the ones who can provide certain reccources and make a lot of profit during the next few hours/days etc. Just tried to build a possible scenario to exemplify what is possible in a sandbox MMO.

    By the way... Is there a a table somewhere to view how many reputation points one gets through various activities or looses them through attacking, knocking out, and killing blows?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Joshuan ().

  • Idk about this beta, but last beta had resource zones in yellow zones you can capture by doing 5v5 GvG instances, and the winner takes over the zone with a few hour grace period. Inside the zone was a chest bank. Right next to the zone were other t3, t4, and t5 materials. For our guild to control who takes our resources near our zone, we had to flag and kill the unwanted gatherers so that our gatherers are able to take the nodes.

    I feel like the new system is cool, but there are some things that need to be worked on. Never really dealt with zerg guilds on yellow zones, so I don't know why they are pressing so hard on yellow zone PvP. Sure, rep should be affected negatively, but not to the extent it is now.
  • Ujjuu wrote:

    Idk about this beta, but last beta had resource zones in yellow zones you can capture by doing 5v5 GvG instances, and the winner takes over the zone with a few hour grace period. Inside the zone was a chest bank. Right next to the zone were other t3, t4, and t5 materials. For our guild to control who takes our resources near our zone, we had to flag and kill the unwanted gatherers so that our gatherers are able to take the nodes.

    I feel like the new system is cool, but there are some things that need to be worked on. Never really dealt with zerg guilds on yellow zones, so I don't know why they are pressing so hard on yellow zone PvP. Sure, rep should be affected negatively, but not to the extent it is now.
    I d also say there is some work to do regarding yellow/red zones. Not just on the PvP part but in general. Thats what this last BETA phase is in place and I m pretty sure that the average yellow map today with all whats inside (quest givers, dungeon entrances, crafting stations, resource hubs, pvp rules etc.) will be significantly different from the release version. I m excited to go through this process as player and tester. The game including this new world map and everything that has been added feels to me like a raw diamond with a lot of potential.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Joshuan ().

  • Sixunder wrote:

    Why is there reputation loss in Yellow Zones for flagging? I believe this being the "soft pvp" transition zone, there should be no penalty for flagging in this area. There is no gear loss in this zone (No Risk - Other than time spent reviving) so in turn, there should be no penalty. People might not get their toes wet in PvP. My guild particularly likes to practice group tactics in these zones as to not waste resources practicing our coordination. We generally aren't running through the dungeons and farming areas with a big group to "cause Conflict" but sit as a zerg in an area for Plebs to come attack us.

    I would be interested in Dev feedback on this one and the player community.
    I agree my group and I downed another group of 5 people for dungeon control in a yellow zone and we all got negative 500 reputation and basically cannot play for 3-5 days loss of reputation in yellow zones is absurd and should be removed from the game it makes pvp not even worth it
  • "but (Redshire) is part of the game!".

    Yes, "redshire" is part of the game, a part you are eventually supposed to move on from. How can the players who go to yellow zones to get their PK on lowbies out of the fact that it is the only place that they don't have to be afraid of losing their gear be called anything but cowards?

    You bawling about the inconveniences of beating up on lowbie in yellow zones all day without risking your gear is beyond pathetic. Griefers are inherently cowards and will flock to this activity in droves without some kind of deterrent.

    How do you not get that?

    As stated by the devs, Yellow zone is a lowbie soft TRANSITION zone from green to red. They aren't meant to be zones for risk-averse cowards to beat up on lowbies all day. Sorry to disappoint you.

    We don't have a lot of complains about greifing because we have a deterrent for that, genius. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Griefers are weak-minded people who can't hang, get their ass handed to them 24/7 in when faced with any real competition.

    Yellow zones clearly do serve a purpose and you should feel embarrassed that it has to be explained to you.

    Now get out of the kiddy pool and learn to play the real game or F off back to Redshire.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Frumpylumps ().

  • Akali wrote:

    Sixunder wrote:

    Why is there reputation loss in Yellow Zones for flagging? I believe this being the "soft pvp" transition zone, there should be no penalty for flagging in this area. There is no gear loss in this zone (No Risk - Other than time spent reviving) so in turn, there should be no penalty. People might not get their toes wet in PvP. My guild particularly likes to practice group tactics in these zones as to not waste resources practicing our coordination. We generally aren't running through the dungeons and farming areas with a big group to "cause Conflict" but sit as a zerg in an area for Plebs to come attack us.

    I would be interested in Dev feedback on this one and the player community.
    I agree my group and I downed another group of 5 people for dungeon control in a yellow zone and we all got negative 500 reputation and basically cannot play for 3-5 days loss of reputation in yellow zones is absurd and should be removed from the game it makes pvp not even worth it
    Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Honestly, you babies crying about the penalties associated with yellow zone dungeon control when you aren't even risking your gear are so ridiculous.

    We have red zones, we have black zone, we have dueling and we have unrestriced pvp areas within the yellow zones. The only thing absurd is you crying that "the game makes pvp not even worth it".

    Get out of the f-ing kiddy pool and then you can talk, ok?

    If you want to beat up lowbies and control the resources on the map in gear that you never lose, you should at least be able to support yourself outside of the safe cities.
  • Vlyn wrote:

    Currently there is no logical reason at all to ever flag up and PvP in a yellow zone
    Huh? Yes there is. Are people being intentionally obtuse with regards to how PvP functions?

    Last night I was in a dungeon farming. Two other people came into the dungeon and proceeded to attempt to take the boss. My group knocked them down and took the boss while they were knocked down. The reputation loss was very minimal, I was able to deflag almost immediately as well. So yes, there are logical reasons to flag: it allows you to control an area and reap its benefits.

    The reputation loss for knocking someone down is very small, you have to knock down a ton of people before you even hit the first tier of negative rep which only disallows green cities (oh no?) and that amount of reputation then decays in literally one day.

    Honestly this whole thread seems to be people whining they can't literally just camp a road 24/7 in yellow zone reaping no benefit other than salt without risking their gear. And that's really the crux of it, yellow zone pvp is great for control at the moment, but the people complaining don't care about that, they want the "pvp without risk" portion. That's exactly what this was attempting to stop, pvp without risk. If you want to pvp nonstop then go to the black/red zones, that's where the real fights will happen anyhow.
  • DufferDave wrote:

    Most of these issues will be fixed when they update the rep system next week. Yellow zone pvp will be viable because low amounts of negative rep will be managable for PKs.

    Reputation System Adjustments

    Those changes will not affect yellow zone pvp at all.

    You're confusing frequency with severity.

    You're making the assumption that the frequency with which people flag up and attack others in yellow zones is lower than in red zones. Frequency is irrelevant. People should flag up as often as they like.

    The real issue is the severity of the infraction committed against the reputation system. Knocking people down in a yellow zone is an order of magnitude less severe than murdering people in a red zone.


    Frumpylumps wrote:

    "but (Redshire) is part of the game!".

    Yes, "redshire" is part of the game, a part you are eventually supposed to move on from.

    According to whom? You? Stop trying to impose your view of how the game should be played on others.

    if I want to exclusive PvP in yellow zones, that's entirely my choice to make. And I should have to deal with appropriate consequences.



    Frumpylumps wrote:

    Honestly, you babies crying about the penalties associated with yellow zone dungeon control when you aren't even risking your gear are so ridiculous.

    What does risking gear have to do with anything? Why do you (and many like you) assume that yellow zone pvp isn't "real" pvp because people aren't risking their gear?

    Is your entire objection based on an innate desire to prove yourself as "hardcore!" to others? If so, you can save it. Red zone pvp isn't superior to yellow zone. And Black zone isn't superior to red. It's a complete fallacy to believe otherwise. They are all different systems with different risks and rewards.


    Frumpylumps wrote:

    Get out of the f-ing kiddy pool and then you can talk, ok?

    Get out of the kiddie pool? This is your argument?

    Why even have yellow zones if it's not viable to pvp in them?

    Honestly, until you can see past your epeen delusions you're never going to understand why it's categorically wrong to apply red zone penalties to yellow zone pvp.
  • Lensar wrote:

    Why even have yellow zones if it's not viable to pvp in them?



    Kuhal wrote:

    Vlyn wrote:

    Currently there is no logical reason at all to ever flag up and PvP in a yellow zone
    Huh? Yes there is. Are people being intentionally obtuse with regards to how PvP functions?

    BINGO!

    Kuhal wrote:

    Last night I was in a dungeon farming. Two other people came into the dungeon and proceeded to attempt to take the boss. My group knocked them down and took the boss while they were knocked down. The reputation loss was very minimal, I was able to deflag almost immediately as well. So yes, there are logical reasons to flag: it allows you to control an area and reap its benefits.

    The reputation loss for knocking someone down is very small, you have to knock down a ton of people before you even hit the first tier of negative rep which only disallows green cities (oh no?) and that amount of reputation then decays in literally one day.

    Honestly this whole thread seems to be people whining they can't literally just camp a road 24/7 in yellow zone reaping no benefit other than salt without risking their gear. And that's really the crux of it, yellow zone pvp is great for control at the moment, but the people complaining don't care about that, they want the "pvp without risk" portion. That's exactly what this was attempting to stop, pvp without risk. If you want to pvp nonstop then go to the black/red zones, that's where the real fights will happen anyhow.

    quoted because you apparently did not read.

    Though has been amusing watching these heavy mental gynastics from people who want to steamroll lowbies and deny them resources while not having to risk their gear in a full loot pvp game, nor face any penalty whatsoever..

    Lensar, What part of "transition zone from green to red" don't you understand?

    Get out of the kiddy or F off back to Redshire, please. Clearly this game is too harsh for you.

    Enabling risk-averse protected aggressors (suicide gankers) is a large part of what was killing the real pvp content in EVE Online, and hopefully AO won't make the same mistake.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Frumpylumps ().

  • Yellow zone PvP is going to naturally devolve into a zone where higher level players grief newbies who are trying to farm their way past tier 3 and 4. The "PvP" in that zone won't be PvP so much as griefing. Nothing wrong with a player running into a griefer now and then, but systems need to be in place so it's heavily discouraged otherwise you can eventually kiss your player base goodbye.
  • Dracones wrote:

    Yellow zone PvP is going to naturally devolve into a zone where higher level players grief newbies who are trying to farm their way past tier 3 and 4. The "PvP" in that zone won't be PvP so much as griefing. Nothing wrong with a player running into a griefer now and then, but systems need to be in place so it's heavily discouraged otherwise you can eventually kiss your player base goodbye.

    Have you ever played Albion Online? That's exactly what never happened.

    Not sure where the new influx of players has come from, but you all certainly seem to be bringing a very grief-averse view point to everything. In the previous beta, we didn't have ENOUGH people who wanted to flag up in yellow zones. It was fun for all when they did, but it wasn't nearly as often as most people would like.

    And for all you new folks who don't understand how it works, "higher level" players, as you put it, do not get the advantage of higher tier gear in yellow zones, so they have little to no advantage over everyone else.

    Someone should start a new guide: "We know you're from WoW, but AO isn't WoW and this is why it's different."
  • ok let me fix this for you.

    yes penalties need to be in place for yellow pvp we get it.

    idiots who think you can knockout 20 people before facing lock out of all the kings law cities are morons.

    the more positive rep a player has the more negative you attain.

    used to be new teams would go to yellow zones and flag to test guild tactics. we cant do that anymore. for a thirty second fight with another group our healer got 700 plus negative rep...no knockdowns.

    the guy with the most knock downs got as little as 25 rep loss and at most 150 rep loss.

    if you go over -251 rep you can not enter any city on the kings lands. (this is also a bug.)

    for guilds that just wanted to test our teamwork before going out for high risk pvp got fucked. there is no in game way of knowing what the rep loss would be or that you couldnt gain it back. its different from other betas. people didnt know and so entire guilds couldnt progress for days.

    you cant defend yourself if you go above -251. meaning if attacked and you so much as auto attack back you get more neg rep. leading to people that just wanted a dungeon team fight for practice now get the shit greifed out of them and there is nothing they can do.

    they all had to make alts just to play the game again.

    the system is getting tuned now. issues that will be fixed is outlined in the announcement post.

    these include.

    higher rep loss per day.

    more neg rep before ranking up.

    allowing up to neg 3rd tier reps to use red zone cities.

    less neg rep for knockouts.

    much more neg rep for murders.

    so your all arguing over semantics at this point. the bugs are being fixed and the rep system is getting tuned. stop bitching at each other.

    scared of greifers bitch is just worried that yellow zones will be cancer.

    GOT ripoff guy is worried a core element of the game will be obsolete.

    /thread.
  • Lensar wrote:

    drizzit1121 wrote:

    GOT ripoff guy is worried a core element of the game will be obsolete. he is an idiot.
    You write like you're sending in your comments via telegraph....STOP

    Yet still have the gall to call others idiots...STOP

    Please, just please...STOP :)

    Ah look I triggered GOT rip off guy. Cute.

    To use your own point against you.

    Stop telling other people how to write forum posts.

    You do not get to control that.

    Also your still an idiot.

    /thread
  • Hi all,

    a few points on the matter:


    Goal of PvP zones
    • Goal of yellow zones is to act as a soft transition between green zones and red zones
    • Via that transition, the goal is to encourage more players to try out PvP, see if it's for them, and then encourage them to graduate to the red zones if it is.
    Reasons to PvP in yellow zones
    • Silver: If you knock down a player, there is a silver drop based on the durability and value of their gear's damage (i.e. the drop does not come out of the player's wallet
    • Control: if somebody is farming the same resources that you do, you can scare them off by attacking them / knocking them down
    Upcoming reputation system adjustments
    GvG Fights in Yellow/Red Zones
    • GvG fights will come back to yellow and red zones, though they will work differently than they currently do in the lawless zones. Stay tuned.


    All the best,
    Korn
  • Lensar wrote:

    Have you ever played Albion Online? That's exactly what never happened.

    Beta doesn't mean jack. I've played rpg PvP oriented games since muds in the early 90's. Once the game hits maturity and the player base gets slightly bored, it's seal clubbing season unless you have very strong protections in place for the seals. And the people stepping into the yellow zones are going to be baby seals that don't know how the gear system works, don't understand the first thing about PvP, and will probably freak out, panic and start randomly smashing buttons the moment any criminal waltzes by. Meanwhile the guys preying on them will be using every exploit the game offers to make their lives miserable. So no, don't kid yourself that the fights will be anywhere close to anything but stone hard ganking.

    I've yet to hear of a reason why these skilled, l33t PvPers can't just play in the red and black zones. My counter is that if the game doesn't have a very easy transition into PvP, you're never going to be able to bring in new blood into the game once it matures because the yellow zones will be a complete train wreck.

    In Eve, around 75% of the active characters in that game operate out of high sec. Getting players into PvP is a very big problem they've been trying to solve for the past half decade. If Albion ignores those players, the ones that need handing holding into the big bad world of scary PvP, the game will end up a small niche online rpg just like every other hardcore pvp game has been in the last 20 years.
  • The point of this thread is the reputation loss that comes with pvping in a yellow zone as a red which of course is going to be fixed in the next week, which is quite a while though. As it stands, the main problem with this thread is the penalty.

    We can divide the thread into these two things.

    1. There should be penalty

    2. The penalty is too high and you are essentially getting negative reward.

    However, the reputation system is going to be fixed next week, so there's no point arguing till the fix is implemented. When it is implemented, yellow zones could still have PVP if the cost (of reputation loss) is not too high.

    At this point, no idiot is actually going to fight over resources or pvp with the risk of going to negative 250 reputation.

    A random purely food for thought idea is to not remove all your good reputation when flagging. Instead, your reputation points is still the same when you flag, but you lose if you down someone as opposed to attacking someone. Here's the logic. You may think it doesn't make sense that breaking the law keeps you reputation. But in a roleplaying sense the reputation can be a tool that you are using your reputation to lie to people, and abusing your power with the reputation. However, rumours of your actions spread and you lose reputation.
    I go by Midnight Ahri on twitch.tv

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Ver ().