Reroll and Money Sink Brainstorm

  • Nervontuxis wrote:

    Thomas9 wrote:

    @Nervontuxis I agree with your posts almost completely, but maybe shutting down the reforge would inflict lots of problems.
    • There are lots of different kind of skill combinations just in one gear piece, so you should buy huge a mount of different kind of gear.
    • Then comes storage problems.
    • It would be money waste to just test different skills.
    • It will be hard to find exact gear pieces you need from auction house.
    • Also devs are going to add even more skills to gear's, so this complicates this situation even more.

    1. Should or would want to? Most of the players run 1 spec for pve, 1 for pvp. The whole idea would be to force players to choose and to make crafting more important. Also, getting someones gear as loot would possibly give you a free chance to try out a dif build as well, or to just sell, scrap, whatever the gear. But still i think players should have change to test different kind of skill combinations in reasonable way, before they choose their specs. The whole gear system bases on, that you find your own build with testing. Not just base builds on guides, availability or random drops.

    2. Storage problems are already there and easily fixed by expanding chests with another gold sink
    You are right its easy, but will it be a mess?

    3. Not a waste, something you do or you don't do. Again, this would keep crafting and selling items far more interesting.
    I agree it will make it interesting, but in good and bad way. People are now forced to buy dozens of different gear pieces just to test some skills and then try to sell those forward. And some (maybe most, i dont know) players will hate this. It will take time and effort to get your money back.

    4. Thats an UI problem. The UI in AH is complete garbage currently and in many other parts as well. Shouldn't be an issue to update the UI which should be expected even or without the removal of the feature. I totally agree, but this is not what i ment. ;) Because there will be so much different kind of combinations, there wont be all kind of gear pieces in sell. So will be lots of situations when players are not getting gears they want or need. You can make buy order, but that is not guaranteed success or it might take too much time.

    5. Read above :)
    Readed. ;-)

    I feel that removing the reforge is as important as removing reroll. Both hurt the fundamental idea of having crafters being unique and the pillarstone of the community. These need to be removed to make a higher variety in gear, builds, crafters uniqueness and so on.
    I agree that removing reforge would make crafters job more important, but i see that removing reforge is more problematic than reroll. It harms building testing which is a bad thing. Maybe there could be a training ground or something like that where players can test different kind of skills. I dont know if this harms again something else and it was just more like throw than suggestion. Maybe we should not go more further with reforge discussion so this thread stays with the topic. Maybe someone starts a whole new one. ;-)

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Thomas9 ().

  • Stravanov wrote:

    There isnt much difference between buying out all items now, and buying out only half the items with the right abilities on.
    Only half, huh. One percent off from a majority. No biggie, right?

    Nervontuxis wrote:

    Im sorry but it's fairly obvious that you haven't really studied any economics / business studies. And I'm not gonna start explaining how a basic market works for the 50th time on these forums.
    I wouldn't want to exhaust myself trying to dishonestly rebut such a likely scenario, either.
  • @Thomas9

    1. I understand that some people actually test out skills probably more than they play the actual game. Might be a bit boring for them unless we keep a test server open for experimentation.

    2. Can't be any more of a mess than it already is ;)

    3. Yea I understand that this would be a type of "trade" between making crafters more important and meaningfull and simultaniously making build testing a bit more slow than it currently is. Tho even now you still need to walk back and forth to reforge the gear. But yeah, maybe its a bit more work for build testing.

    4. I see it only as a positive thing that some gear might be missing from the ah. Thats the whole idea of localised markets and the only reason you could actually play a "merchant" in the world. Diving deep into the markets, buying and reselling in dif locations - working hand in hand with crafters for max profit etc. Even in current beta, that doesn't have real localised markets, you still can't find certain simple items on every AH.

    5. :)

    Training ground of some sort for guild islands perhaps? Or just the test server. A lot of ways to work around this issue. I personally would love it that there would be a "building" islands called training arena or something like that.
    Ding dong the witch is dead!

    Officer of Nilfgaard (Haamu's party)
  • Radicale wrote:

    Stravanov wrote:

    There isnt much difference between buying out all items now, and buying out only half the items with the right abilities on.
    Only half, huh. One percent off from a majority. No biggie, right?

    There will always be huge stockpiles of raw materials stored up around each major trade city. If there is 50 of the same item on AH, there will be enough materials in the area to make several times that amount. The items that are listed on AH represents a small fraction of the available materials in an area. For the sake of the argument, lets just keep the number in your favor and assume that there is 50 items on AH and enough materials stored in the area to craft another potential 1000 items.

    If a guild wants to buy up all potential PvP gear in a given area, it doesn't matter to them if they have to purchase 1025 items. Or 1050 items. So yes. The 25 items difference don't make much difference over the course of a war.

    Either way, as I explained. Allowing for trade to play a more active part in a war just makes the game deeper. If AO is to be a successful game for more than 6 months, the devs need to add depth to the crafting and trade pofessions. Making crafters actually matter, by not making all items completely generic to be rerolled or reforged by anyone, is a move in that direction.
  • Anyways, I think we should keep the reroll- and reforge discussions as seperate topics. The two topics are obviously connected. But I think a thread like this will bear more fruit if we keep the more complex problem, which reforging is, seperate.
  • I was once told, that a voting of 500 players may get things underway. Considering the amount of active players on the forums, it will be close to impossible, but someone can always try and push a voting thread through, until beta 2 hits.

    Also, SI's backlog of things yet to do appears to be overloaded = an easy to implement approach would benefit the current situation the most.

    Although i would prefer being able to use every weapon at T3, if i had to choose a topic to "invest".. oh well. another thing that irritates me.
  • Stravanov wrote:

    Making crafters actually matter, by not making all items completely generic to be rerolled or reforged by anyone, is a move in that direction.
    In the case of reforging, it sounds like they're moving in the opposite direction, by rendering it obsolete:

    Talion wrote:

    The key features which will be available at the beginning of Beta 2 are:

    Anytime Ability Selection
    Good. Crafters make equipment, they shouldn't decide how it's used.