The Elephant in the Room (Halberd)

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    • As a .1 spear user my damage is lower and I do not have the root. I've had halberd users say it's under powered so I would say .1 spear is balanced. The reason I bring this up is some of you are suggesting changes to spirit spear. I believe the skill is fine for .1 spear as I throw spirit spears to use my spear as a javelin. The mobility is very good but with lower damage and negligible cc. I also believe spirit spear is unfitting to the halberd. My suggestion would be to remove spirit spear as an option from the halberd. The range of low stab could be increased to slightly above melee. The weapon's base range could also be increased to slightly above melee.
    • VetonB schrieb:

      Dude i will beat you on any dps wep in 1v1 or 1v2 open world.
      Random forum warrior, i played Halberd LONG before the changes to it.
      And you are making some dumbass suggestions , while being shit in pvp and barerly knowing anything about it , kids like u from forums are waste of time making devs think they are getting usefull info from players like u. While u dont even play the game, and was in one of worst PvP wise guilds.
      @qvq bitch
      1) you were a nobody till they over powered it being repped by your guild only. Most considered you a non factor...even now with a wep that is slightly on the op side because of its engage and disengage ability.

      2) the only fight you have ever won against me was when i was running around in t4 trash gear screwing around on twitch against your t8.3 legendary gear. Besides i've only ever fought you one other time and we still have the video of you disengaging and running away as your teammates died.

      So yes I am a non factor in the game atm since my old build is useless. My 2nd build used to be = to halberd but is no longer equal since it was brought in line with movement ability meaning halberd can engage and disengage vs it with no threat. However that being said I know exactly where I stand and as far as weapon balances go my suggestions weren't bad considering the hope is that they balance halberd not nerf it to the ground.

      As far as jackal goes it is a common joke among us that you run away from fights commonly so don't talk crap about them when people like lkuk and kesmai have fought and killed you on the regular. At least with us we don't require op weapons to become known. Prior to the "buff" halberd got the only people that spoke about you was queen virgo. Jackal will never be a factor in this game because of the core values it has. It set out to be a smaller guild of skill based combat. GVGs can be fun the first 2-3 you do, but after that it just becomes a burden to have to show up every single day for hours on end for a small group that funds their own gear. So yes while we may do a few we will never own a massive area or even bother to defend it. In the end we will win our fights vs you and your group even if you have mass numbers. We might not get the gear because we don't like zerging like you have done in the past and tend to do, but we will kill your members and move on getting what we can. We know our place in the game perfectly. How about you?
      HCN wrote:
      Hello,
      While I do agree with you (I miss the good old days of UO when we didn't have to deal with the instant-gratification-cry-baby generation)
    • VetonB schrieb:

      qvq schrieb:

      VetonB schrieb:

      Dude i will beat you on any dps wep in 1v1 or 1v2 open world.
      Random forum warrior, i played Halberd LONG before the changes to it.
      And you are making some dumbass suggestions , while being shit in pvp and barerly knowing anything about it , kids like u from forums are waste of time making devs think they are getting usefull info from players like u. While u dont even play the game, and was in one of worst PvP wise guilds.
      @qvq bitch
      1) you were a nobody till they over powered it being repped by your guild only. Most considered you a non factor...even now with a wep that is slightly on the op side because of its engage and disengage ability.2) the only fight you have ever won against me was when i was running around in t4 trash gear screwing around on twitch against your t8.3 legendary gear. Besides i've only ever fought you one other time and we still have the video of you disengaging and running away as your teammates died.

      So yes I am a non factor in the game atm since my old build is useless. My 2nd build used to be = to halberd but is no longer equal since it was brought in line with movement ability meaning halberd can engage and disengage vs it with no threat. However that being said I know exactly where I stand and as far as weapon balances go my suggestions weren't bad considering the hope is that they balance halberd not nerf it to the ground.

      As far as jackal goes it is a common joke among us that you run away from fights commonly so don't talk crap about them when people like lkuk and kesmai have fought and killed you on the regular. At least with us we don't require op weapons to become known. Prior to the "buff" halberd got the only people that spoke about you was queen virgo. Jackal will never be a factor in this game because of the core values it has. It set out to be a smaller guild of skill based combat. GVGs can be fun the first 2-3 you do, but after that it just becomes a burden to have to show up every single day for hours on end for a small group that funds their own gear. So yes while we may do a few we will never own a massive area or even bother to defend it. In the end we will win our fights vs you and your group even if you have mass numbers. We might not get the gear because we don't like zerging like you have done in the past and tend to do, but we will kill your members and move on getting what we can. We know our place in the game perfectly. How about you?
      Forum trash talk , bring it to game mate.J/K , You can't since u die to me all the time in field.

      And you have 1M PvP fame as a war bow , get the fuck OUT.
      1mil was gotten with iron clad....gl with this argument
      HCN wrote:
      Hello,
      While I do agree with you (I miss the good old days of UO when we didn't have to deal with the instant-gratification-cry-baby generation)
    • Veton always makes me laugh. 9m duels in Tormouth XD. Weapon might not be purely overpowered but it does have a bit of a weird power spike and counter play versus the range is a bit too limited. I used Halberd up to and before Cador after swapping out from curse and as a light user post Darian I am still able to land roots on 6.6 geared players for over 1k damage/ full duration. I think the scaling on the Q and maybe a little bit of the range can go down, but I do like that it has a place as a short range melee, as it allows you to play on the front lines as a damage dealer, although the FOTM medium halberd haste combo scales absurdly.

      They will likely rebalance it, there isn;t really a question there, I just hope they don't gut the play styles.
    • Gank schrieb:

      Veton always makes me laugh. 9m duels in Tormouth XD. Weapon might not be purely overpowered but it does have a bit of a weird power spike and counter play versus the range is a bit too limited. I used Halberd up to and before Cador after swapping out from curse and as a light user post Darian I am still able to land roots on 6.6 geared players for over 1k damage/ full duration. I think the scaling on the Q and maybe a little bit of the range can go down, but I do like that it has a place as a short range melee, as it allows you to play on the front lines as a damage dealer, although the FOTM medium halberd haste combo scales absurdly.

      They will likely rebalance it, there isn;t really a question there, I just hope they don't gut the play styles.
      if they balanced the game better it would be less noticeable honestly.

      since it uses medium with haste and they removed other armor types from having speed the difference is insane. If heavy light and medium had speed it would balance out a little.

      that being said halberd and axe (post change) are too fast to be considered balanced. to fix this they need to do what they did to bow recently and rebalance them to be closer to that of the dagger / frost shot in mobility. That way if your weapon = mobility wep you are somewhat similar to the other mobility weps, but since this wep has a root attached to it probably 1 step slower than that of the dagger pair so say exactly equal to frost shot total distance and cooldown.

      dagger has no stun so should have mobility. (mobility toned down marginally on the claw)....etc... this would make balance something this game lacks.
      HCN wrote:
      Hello,
      While I do agree with you (I miss the good old days of UO when we didn't have to deal with the instant-gratification-cry-baby generation)
    • Verdandi schrieb:

      Please keep in mind that any nerf to haste and or the shared skills of the spear line would make .1 spear under powered.
      well .1 and .2 need to be brought in line with .3 in item power so the skills you see across the board have to be evened out since .1-.3 are a thing of the past and they are making everything even from Korn's post to FuS awhile back.
      HCN wrote:
      Hello,
      While I do agree with you (I miss the good old days of UO when we didn't have to deal with the instant-gratification-cry-baby generation)
    • yes, but they can't just buff all .1 and .2 if you think it's unbalanced now it would be chaos, it has to be brought in line first. how many weapons are over powered with haste? is haste the issue with the halberd or is halberd the issue with haste? with .1 spear's base damage the combo isn't op. many on this thread have said the halberd's range doesn't make sense, and it really doesn't. I don't think the skill spirit spear fits for halberd. It fits perfectly as is on the .1 spear. increasing the base damage of spear and nerfing haste could keep my build in balance but heavy armor with spear and shield would be op as it is already very strong and doesn't rely on haste.
    • Verdandi schrieb:

      yes, but they can't just buff all .1 and .2 if you think it's unbalanced now it would be chaos, it has to be brought in line first. how many weapons are over powered with haste? is haste the issue with the halberd or is halberd the issue with haste? with .1 spear's base damage the combo isn't op. many on this thread have said the halberd's range doesn't make sense, and it really doesn't. I don't think the skill spirit spear fits for halberd. It fits perfectly as is on the .1 spear. increasing the base damage of spear and nerfing haste could keep my build in balance but heavy armor with spear and shield would be op as it is already very strong and doesn't rely on haste.
      the 4 stack from the skill is currently an issue for sure because when your movement ability = faster than every other movement weapon in game. It needs toned down not ruined. They need everything to be close to eachother in game to be balanced. i.e. what i listed prior. So bow line for example should not really do dmg. Everything it has is cannot be interrupted vs everything mage line has can be. Curse staff is instant cast so it should do less dmg than say fire staff which is not.

      balancing isn't very difficult to be honest they just don't seem to be doing it at all.
      HCN wrote:
      Hello,
      While I do agree with you (I miss the good old days of UO when we didn't have to deal with the instant-gratification-cry-baby generation)
    • qvq schrieb:

      Verdandi schrieb:

      yes, but they can't just buff all .1 and .2 if you think it's unbalanced now it would be chaos, it has to be brought in line first. how many weapons are over powered with haste? is haste the issue with the halberd or is halberd the issue with haste? with .1 spear's base damage the combo isn't op. many on this thread have said the halberd's range doesn't make sense, and it really doesn't. I don't think the skill spirit spear fits for halberd. It fits perfectly as is on the .1 spear. increasing the base damage of spear and nerfing haste could keep my build in balance but heavy armor with spear and shield would be op as it is already very strong and doesn't rely on haste.
      the 4 stack from the skill is currently an issue for sure because when your movement ability = faster than every other movement weapon in game. It needs toned down not ruined. They need everything to be close to eachother in game to be balanced. i.e. what i listed prior. So bow line for example should not really do dmg. Everything it has is cannot be interrupted vs everything mage line has can be. Curse staff is instant cast so it should do less dmg than say fire staff which is not.
      balancing isn't very difficult to be honest they just don't seem to be doing it at all.
      (you ignored my question on haste so I will take that to mean it is halberd that is the problem.)

      I believe the highest movement speed in the game is fitting for the spear and that the problem is in giving that same mobility to a weapon that has far superior damage and cc. .1 bow is fine as a strong single target damage dealer, but with many counters. long bow as aoe/cc is easy to dodge, by that I mean walk away, and is interruptable. war bow for a ranged instant hard cc is it's damage low enough? The stun is easy to dodge if you have enough distance so the range isn't effectively as high, though I would have to look more closely at how well it can be countered now and I don't really want to go in to that on a thread about halberd. cursed does not have the range for it's instant q skill, the skills that do the most damage are cast or channel, the armor pierce got nerfed, it is one of the first singled out as a target. it does too much damage for a support but apparently they don't want it to be a support. It's still good but is it op?

      I believe balancing is much more complex, and therefore difficult, than you make it out to be, especially in games that allow freedom of choice such as this.
    • Verdandi schrieb:

      qvq schrieb:

      Verdandi schrieb:

      yes, but they can't just buff all .1 and .2 if you think it's unbalanced now it would be chaos, it has to be brought in line first. how many weapons are over powered with haste? is haste the issue with the halberd or is halberd the issue with haste? with .1 spear's base damage the combo isn't op. many on this thread have said the halberd's range doesn't make sense, and it really doesn't. I don't think the skill spirit spear fits for halberd. It fits perfectly as is on the .1 spear. increasing the base damage of spear and nerfing haste could keep my build in balance but heavy armor with spear and shield would be op as it is already very strong and doesn't rely on haste.
      the 4 stack from the skill is currently an issue for sure because when your movement ability = faster than every other movement weapon in game. It needs toned down not ruined. They need everything to be close to eachother in game to be balanced. i.e. what i listed prior. So bow line for example should not really do dmg. Everything it has is cannot be interrupted vs everything mage line has can be. Curse staff is instant cast so it should do less dmg than say fire staff which is not.balancing isn't very difficult to be honest they just don't seem to be doing it at all.
      (you ignored my question on haste so I will take that to mean it is halberd that is the problem.)
      I believe the highest movement speed in the game is fitting for the spear and that the problem is in giving that same mobility to a weapon that has far superior damage and cc. .1 bow is fine as a strong single target damage dealer, but with many counters. long bow as aoe/cc is easy to dodge, by that I mean walk away, and is interruptable. war bow for a ranged instant hard cc is it's damage low enough? The stun is easy to dodge if you have enough distance so the range isn't effectively as high, though I would have to look more closely at how well it can be countered now and I don't really want to go in to that on a thread about halberd. cursed does not have the range for it's instant q skill, the skills that do the most damage are cast or channel, the armor pierce got nerfed, it is one of the first singled out as a target. it does too much damage for a support but apparently they don't want it to be a support. It's still good but is it op?

      I believe balancing is much more complex, and therefore difficult, than you make it out to be, especially in games that allow freedom of choice such as this.
      Will break apart and answer as I read:
      In regards to haste vs halberd:
      -Both are an issue currently
      --Haste Unbalances game giving medium more than light and heavy
      --Spear/Halberd line unbalance game giving more movement than every other movement weapon in game

      In regards to "I believe the highest movement speed in the game is fitting for the spear"
      -Your logic isn't terrible in regards to this, but the games balance is off across the board reference my earlier post in regards how to balance.
      -Also in terms of the spear it should be the last weapon in game tweaked and my reasoning for this ....it isn't op or terrible is just sort of there in the lower middle...they need to fix the blatant issues before approaching this weapon (excluding the movement issue across the entire line)

      In regards to bow line
      -Until it gets seriously worked on should honestly be removed from game like other weapons have in the past or have the Q multishot removed until they can balance it correctly.

      In regards to curse staff
      -Before this closed beta literally every single one of us ran around during the NDA with this weapon it was so broken it wasn't even funny
      -Their fix was to take this amazing weapon and nerf it pretty damn hard. (they should relook at this weapon after they balance the other weapons)

      Overall balancing isn't very hard to do.

      Your weapons fall into only a few categories
      DMG || DMG SUPPORT || DMG MOBILITY || SUPPORT || DMG MOBILITY SUPPORT (wtf halberd?)

      You balance according to these so the guys in the support/mobility tiers should not do the same dmg as the tier with only dmg...etc...

      p.s. i went more in depth with the other post if you want more breakdown.
      HCN wrote:
      Hello,
      While I do agree with you (I miss the good old days of UO when we didn't have to deal with the instant-gratification-cry-baby generation)
    • qvq schrieb:

      Verdandi schrieb:

      qvq schrieb:

      Verdandi schrieb:

      yes, but they can't just buff all .1 and .2 if you think it's unbalanced now it would be chaos, it has to be brought in line first. how many weapons are over powered with haste? is haste the issue with the halberd or is halberd the issue with haste? with .1 spear's base damage the combo isn't op. many on this thread have said the halberd's range doesn't make sense, and it really doesn't. I don't think the skill spirit spear fits for halberd. It fits perfectly as is on the .1 spear. increasing the base damage of spear and nerfing haste could keep my build in balance but heavy armor with spear and shield would be op as it is already very strong and doesn't rely on haste.
      the 4 stack from the skill is currently an issue for sure because when your movement ability = faster than every other movement weapon in game. It needs toned down not ruined. They need everything to be close to eachother in game to be balanced. i.e. what i listed prior. So bow line for example should not really do dmg. Everything it has is cannot be interrupted vs everything mage line has can be. Curse staff is instant cast so it should do less dmg than say fire staff which is not.balancing isn't very difficult to be honest they just don't seem to be doing it at all.
      (you ignored my question on haste so I will take that to mean it is halberd that is the problem.)I believe the highest movement speed in the game is fitting for the spear and that the problem is in giving that same mobility to a weapon that has far superior damage and cc. .1 bow is fine as a strong single target damage dealer, but with many counters. long bow as aoe/cc is easy to dodge, by that I mean walk away, and is interruptable. war bow for a ranged instant hard cc is it's damage low enough? The stun is easy to dodge if you have enough distance so the range isn't effectively as high, though I would have to look more closely at how well it can be countered now and I don't really want to go in to that on a thread about halberd. cursed does not have the range for it's instant q skill, the skills that do the most damage are cast or channel, the armor pierce got nerfed, it is one of the first singled out as a target. it does too much damage for a support but apparently they don't want it to be a support. It's still good but is it op?

      I believe balancing is much more complex, and therefore difficult, than you make it out to be, especially in games that allow freedom of choice such as this.
      Will break apart and answer as I read:In regards to haste vs halberd:
      -Both are an issue currently
      --Haste Unbalances game giving medium more than light and heavy
      --Spear/Halberd line unbalance game giving more movement than every other movement weapon in game

      In regards to "I believe the highest movement speed in the game is fitting for the spear"
      -Your logic isn't terrible in regards to this, but the games balance is off across the board reference my earlier post in regards how to balance.
      -Also in terms of the spear it should be the last weapon in game tweaked and my reasoning for this ....it isn't op or terrible is just sort of there in the lower middle...they need to fix the blatant issues before approaching this weapon (excluding the movement issue across the entire line)

      In regards to bow line
      -Until it gets seriously worked on should honestly be removed from game like other weapons have in the past or have the Q multishot removed until they can balance it correctly.

      In regards to curse staff
      -Before this closed beta literally every single one of us ran around during the NDA with this weapon it was so broken it wasn't even funny
      -Their fix was to take this amazing weapon and nerf it pretty damn hard. (they should relook at this weapon after they balance the other weapons)

      Overall balancing isn't very hard to do.

      Your weapons fall into only a few categories
      DMG || DMG SUPPORT || DMG MOBILITY || SUPPORT || DMG MOBILITY SUPPORT (wtf halberd?)

      You balance according to these so the guys in the support/mobility tiers should not do the same dmg as the tier with only dmg...etc...

      p.s. i went more in depth with the other post if you want more breakdown.

      I suggested removing spirit spear as an option from halberd altogether as it doesn't fit. I am happy even if .1 spear is lower middle, you will not get perfect balance, just not blatantly op like the halberd. you are the one who changed the subject adding in other weapons to the conversation, I merely suggested that they are not as bad as you make them out to be. If you want a more in depth look at them make a separate thread. you provide no evidence to support your claims of haste being op, It provides more what? speed? obviously that's the point, and speed is not omnipotent. damage than robes could? only to halberd because it is broken (also cloth is up because they nerfed frost shield "because it outshines the other abilities" when the other abilities were up*I don't even use robes and I can see this*) and heavy is good to survive longer to deal the same total damage or more depending on the situation. you even agree with me on my main point that spear is fine and it's halberd that is op, yet your view of the game is to limit build diversity to a level below even theme park mmorpg. If that's really what you want it would be easy to balance, have fun with your text only game old man. :P This wasn't supposed to be an argument, but I'm done talking to you if you aren't going to add anything to the conversation other than stories of the "good ol' days".

      p.s. I am going to go actually play the game.
    • In a game where numbers take precedence speed = king. The reason halberd can even really be considered op is the same reason bow was able to be considered op before frostshot nerf (not talking about the op q for the moment).

      Currently it can engage into any fight it wants to with almost 100% guarantee if things go south it can disengage and escape.


      Now to further prove a point take any weapon in the game. Using the same weapon you can engage someone in light or heavy armor, and mid fight if things go south you can disengage having another sprint.

      Take this same logic and look at people like tanks and healers who do not have this option. To tank you must wear heavy chest, and to heal you must wear light armor. So by this logic if you run across a big group in open world your tanks and healers are dead. Sure the dmg dealers can wear medium and escape, but the others cannot. In a balanced game the skills must also be somewhat balanced. What I have been calling for for awhile is a heavy and light version of this same haste that we used to have when light medium and heavy could all use defenseless rush on their helm and fit the roles needed in the game.
      HCN wrote:
      Hello,
      While I do agree with you (I miss the good old days of UO when we didn't have to deal with the instant-gratification-cry-baby generation)
    • You guys are talking about it as if halberd is super OP.

      Halberd is not super OP.
      In fact, it is complete trash outside of small gang/solo PvP.

      It just has high mobility. And deals more damage then bows.

      Halberd is good in one single case: open world pvp vs. players who don't have a counter.

      Halberd can't beat all other weapons. It can run away from them. Which is probably what makes you think that halberd is more OP than it is.

      If they just make CC abilities more punishing (I.E. greatly increase the cooldown of the CC remove on medium head (forgot the name)), and rebalance slows across the board so a full medium with a slow on will always move a lot slower than someone who moves at the standard pace, and all of a sudden you actually have counters to halberd.

      The counter to spear/halberd and bows is then simply: any weapon with strong CC.

      The only reason mobility is king right now is that CC is undertuned compared to all the speed increases and CC removal in game.

      Maybe they need to redesign slows altogether so that slows are way more effective at removing speed buffs. So if someone moves at 120% speed and you put a 20% slow on him, the slow is doubled for the first 20%. This would make slows stronger vs. mobility-specced players. But not completely overpowered against players that move at 100% speed.
    • qvq schrieb:

      In a game where numbers take precedence speed = king. The reason halberd can even really be considered op is the same reason bow was able to be considered op before frostshot nerf (not talking about the op q for the moment).

      Currently it can engage into any fight it wants to with almost 100% guarantee if things go south it can disengage and escape.


      Now to further prove a point take any weapon in the game. Using the same weapon you can engage someone in light or heavy armor, and mid fight if things go south you can disengage having another sprint.

      Take this same logic and look at people like tanks and healers who do not have this option. To tank you must wear heavy chest, and to heal you must wear light armor. So by this logic if you run across a big group in open world your tanks and healers are dead. Sure the dmg dealers can wear medium and escape, but the others cannot. In a balanced game the skills must also be somewhat balanced. What I have been calling for for awhile is a heavy and light version of this same haste that we used to have when light medium and heavy could all use defenseless rush on their helm and fit the roles needed in the game.
      you have made some valid points so I will respond in a respectful manner. for open world pvp speed is often very important. healers actually have the option to use leather, though I agree there need to be more speed options for other items. I would say not on plate chest as tanks weakness should be mobility, but for robes they could have some option. In a separate thread I am already discussing the addition of skills for more speed options. particularly what sounds like defenseless rush war horn for soldier helm . some aoe speed buff used by support would help the less mobile Flute as an additional option for hunter jacket.
    • Verdandi schrieb:

      you have made some valid points so I will respond in a respectful manner. for open world pvp speed is often very important. healers actually have the option to use leather, though I agree there need to be more speed options for other items. I would say not on plate chest as tanks weakness should be mobility, but for robes they could have some option. In a separate thread I am already discussing the addition of skills for more speed options. particularly what sounds like defenseless rush war horn for soldier helm . some aoe speed buff used by support would help the less mobile Flute as an additional option for hunter jacket.
      in regards to healers wearing leather this is something i mentioned awhile back.

      Healers can wear leather or even heavy but the downside as the game currently stands is this.

      If healer is in medium or heavy the rest of his party must be in no less than what he is wearing i.e. if you have a heavy wearing healer all your dps must also be in heavy to counter the lack of healing he can put out. So in this regard having the healer limited on mobility is a terrible idea.
      HCN wrote:
      Hello,
      While I do agree with you (I miss the good old days of UO when we didn't have to deal with the instant-gratification-cry-baby generation)