The Elephant in the Room (Halberd)

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    • Halberd is good for a solo roamer. Primarily because it counters bows. And also because it has high mobility. So in very small scale PvP (1-3 players), it is pretty good.

      Halberd is horrible for GvG. As soon as you have enough players to synergize off of each others, other weapons become a lot more useful.

      I'm fine with the fact that some weapons are for open world small scale roam. Some weapons are for GvG. And some weapon are for ZvZ. The game should be balanced around this.

      But for each category, there should be a rock/paper/scissors balance. There needs to be counters to all weapons. Currently, as mentioned in a lot of places on the forum, there aren't many counters to mobility. This is why weapons with a lot of mobility are overpowered on small scale PvP. Mobility needs to have more reliable counters. This is the main issue that needs to be fixed.

      In general, the balance should be like:
      Mobility counters heavy damage
      CC counters mobility
      Heavy damage counters CC

      This is the rock/paper/scissors balance that I'm asking for. Currently, its just super hard for solo players or small groups to counter a very mobile player. You effectively need 2 players with CC to counter one very mobile player. And this is why mobility is king in solo/small gang. And why mobility drops so dramatically in effeciveness as soon as you reach 5v5 or more.

      The counter to mobility should be something like a heavy user with a charge ability. The range on charge should be the same as the range of bows and halberds. The charge also needs to have a root or slow to enable the player to hit the bow/halberd a few times. And the cooldown of the charge needs to be low enough so that the player can actually catch the bow/halberd user, if he reengages.
      https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/
    • Radicale schrieb:

      Stravanov schrieb:

      But for each category, there should be a rock/paper/scissors balance. There needs to be counters to all weapons.
      I wonder when MMO designers will stop treating their players like units in an RTS.
      Not this year, apparently.
      So you disagree that there should be a rock/paper/scissor dynamic?
      https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/
    • Radicale schrieb:

      No, I agree in this game's case; they've committed to a combat model that requires this simplistic philosophy and it's too late in development to change it.

      But it's also one of the reasons Albion won't be remembered for its PvP (if it's remembered at all).
      First of all, rock/papers/scissors isn't simplistic at all. 100% of big successful games have counters. And counters to those counters. Its only the blandest of bland games that have one "be all end all" class that can't be countered.

      Also, it's not the "combat model" that commits them. Its the fact that they want the game to be playable on tablets/phones. This is the big limiting factor, which in the long term will hold the game back.

      Its still very possible for them to make an interesting dynamic in both solo roam, GvG and ZvZ. The only real problem right now is in solo roam, where mobility (and thur longbow or halberd) is the "be all end all". Make a few counters to that, and its all good.
      https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/
    • The strongest counters available during a fight should be at the performance level ("polearms are supposed to be less effective at close-range, so if I find my way inside that halberdier's reach while avoiding his attacks I can kill him"), not at the preparation level ("he's holding daggers but I'm swinging a halberd so this one's in the bag").

      The problem is that AO's combat model is so rigidly inadequate that their only course of action is to nerf the halberd's damage and/or mobility to "bring it in line", which does nothing to change how it's countered.

      When success in a given situation is primarily determined by choices made long before combat even happens, the combat itself becomes almost perfunctory in nature. This focus on the "meta" in modern competitive games is just a symptom of how bland the actual gameplay is.
    • Radicale schrieb:

      The strongest counters available during a fight should be at the performance level ("polearms are supposed to be less effective at close-range, so if I find my way inside that halberdier's reach while avoiding his attacks I can kill him"), not at the preparation level ("he's holding daggers but I'm swinging a halberd so this one's in the bag").

      The problem is that AO's combat model is so rigidly inadequate that their only course of action is to nerf the halberd's damage and/or mobility to "bring it in line", which does nothing to change how it's countered.

      When success in a given situation is primarily determined by choices made long before combat even happens, the combat itself becomes almost perfunctory in nature. This focus on the "meta" in modern competitive games is just a symptom of how bland the actual gameplay is.

      Obviously skills should matter a lot.

      But how do you intend to favor skills more, when the game is meant to be run on tablets?

      Skills do matter a lot in AO. I wish the skill ceiling was higher. But that's not possible on a tablet game.

      And even in highly skill-based games, you still need the rock/paper/scissor dynamic. Which leads me back to the topic at hand:
      Halberd is only a problem in very specific situations. And only because there is no counter to mobility in that situation. The fix to the bow/halberd problem is not a complete overhaul of the game. It is simply to balance mobility vs. cc.
      https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/
    • Radicale schrieb:

      Stravanov schrieb:

      The fix to the bow/halberd problem is not a complete overhaul of the game. It is simply to balance mobility vs. cc.
      Tweaking what's already in place is the extent of what they can do. So whack this mole and enjoy the respite until the next rears its head.

      If you don't like the core game, you can always just quit, you know. You don't have to lurk on the forums your entire life because you bought something that you turned out to not like.

      I believe that if they whack some moles in a clever way, they will reduce the problems and balance things out more. You also know this is the case. So your whack-a-mole picture is wrong.
      https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/82954-Guide-What-order-to-level-items-in-to-get-the-most-specialization-for-your-time/
    • Thomas9 schrieb:

      What is halberds excat range with autoattack and forest? Halberds were usually only under 2 metres long
      Mostly true. In the middle ages the average Halberd length according to scholars was approximately 6 feet long. So whereas the weapon should be ranged it should not reflect a range of more than that as that would translate in-game

      . I have to whole heartedly agree that the Halberd is currently an Elephant and feel that the devs are already looking into this. Case in point @VetonB #1 Kill fame in the world currently and (at least personally) have not seen him use a weapon other than the current Elephant. When the Warbow was the Elephant he used it at the time as well.

      Not to take away from the actual skill of the player but coincidences in life are far and few between :)

      [T2D GM]