Pike E spell too weak

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    • Pike E spell too weak

      I started to use the Pike again to level up some halberd item power and i realyized that i really like this weapon but it has some major flaws.

      1) The stacks mechanic makes it imposible to use Low Stab as Q spell. If you are alleardy in melee range why would you want to pull your target ?

      2) Energycosts are way over the top. 3 stacks of Q on a 7.2 Legendary Pike are 3x 29 + 105 for the harpoon = 192 Energy to Pull a Target for the full root duration. (btw duration is not shown in tooltip)

      3) A 3 stack harpoon of a 7.2 legendary Pike hits a rabbit for 508 dmg a 3 stacks autoattack do 550. So a full charged 192 Energy combo hits for less then a single autoattack.

      4) Harpoon also got a 30 secounds timer.

      Right now the Pike only shines in medium to lage group pvp and is completly horrible in pve and smallscale pvp.
      I think at least the stack mechanic should be removed.
    • First: the whole line is OP because of the way AA is multiplied.
      Second: it is the easiest line in the game to stack Q on, because you don't need to target anything.
      Third: it is the only initiation skill in the game that doesn't require the caster to be put in harm's way.


      It is actually one of the most overpowered abilities in the game, and trivializes team based PvP.
    • I also see pike as a flawed weapon, but partly different way. My concern here: Current pike is flawed

      macor schrieb:

      I started to use the Pike again to level up some halberd item power and i realyized that i really like this weapon but it has some major flaws.

      1) The stacks mechanic makes it imposible to use Low Stab as Q spell. If you are alleardy in melee range why would you want to pull your target ?

      2) Energycosts are way over the top. 3 stacks of Q on a 7.2 Legendary Pike are 3x 29 + 105 for the harpoon = 192 Energy to Pull a Target for the full root duration. (btw duration is not shown in tooltip)

      3) A 3 stack harpoon of a 7.2 legendary Pike hits a rabbit for 508 dmg a 3 stacks autoattack do 550. So a full charged 192 Energy combo hits for less then a single autoattack.

      4) Harpoon also got a 30 secounds timer.

      Right now the Pike only shines in medium to lage group pvp and is completly horrible in pve and smallscale pvp.
      I think at least the stack mechanic should be removed.

      I agree with you @Marco . Energy cost is quite high, as matter of fact spear line also generally spends energies fast with the basic skills, so this also effects on this issue. I also see pike usefull in larger pvp fights, but quite useless in all other cases, thats why i dont agree @angrad with you about, that pike is OP, even in just pvp. My impression was that pike is less used, but why is that, if its OP?
      I am just the guy who gives you a ride to the underworld.
      How to start build my character?

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Thomas9 ()

    • Reason why pike isn't so strong right now is that bows are most used weapon in meta now. Pike isn't good against bows because you can get out with frost jump so easily. After patch pike gets much stronger when bows get that nerf. More people will roll to staves or melee weapons and pike works well against those, especially against staves that requires longer casting as they are forced to stay in 1 spot longer.
    • angrad schrieb:

      Easy answer: the same reason Pull In isn't used in PvP. No one knows what they are doing.

      What you see in PvP right now will be nothing like how it will be if the game doesn't flop on release. Consequently, PvP is the commensurate of a head butting match.
      I have seen pull in use in other games also and actually i have used alot a similar or even better one by myself. It can give you nice possibilities and you can do different kind of combos with that, but still its really hard to believe that its just op. Now you are thinking an ideal situation where you pull target to middle of your party --》You root/stun target --》centralize damage to target --》target dead. This could ofc happen, but there are still variates what can happen. Pulled player has a good change to get out of there by him/herself. Cleanse, blink, teleport all kind of sprints, iceblock, extra shields, selfheals etc. Also he/she is still not alone, can be healed, shielded and your party might get lots of cc. In theory this strategy works just fine, but the real situation could be totally different.

      I am sure that there are even more dangerous combos than this. Pull can be good and effective and you are right about that, but just if you are doing it right. Still i am not buying that OP argument. ;)
      I am just the guy who gives you a ride to the underworld.
      How to start build my character?
    • I would like to start by saying my preferred play style is quick mixed range, I am a spear user(flat tier only) and I love the weapon. (Pike and Halberd do not fit my very specific play style so I do not use them and will not comment on them as they are completely different weapons (I find trying to make the weapons within a tree different and unique while forcing people to play them all to be odd))

      angrad schrieb:

      the whole line is OP because of the way AA is multiplied.

      Do you mean the 70-105% auto attack damage with using haste's 60% attack speed? I think that's what keeps the spear viable as a dps weapon. I'm not sure how auto attack scales, but I think it is balanced at t6. If it's not at higher tiers (not saying it is, I haven't used any enchanted tiers yet) it would be a scaling issue and I hope they would only adjust the damage numbers. (aren't* haste and spirit spear stacks purge-able?)

      Thomas9 schrieb:

      Energy cost is quite high, as matter of fact spear line also generally spends energies fast with the basic skills,

      I actually like that the spear uses allot of energy, it makes for more interesting game play IMO, not spamming all skills in a set order indefinitely. (again not sure how this scales, but it sounds(looks) like @PPx is high tier pike and is fine with the energy costs) Also @Thomas9 I think there is only so much we can say about a weapon we don't care for and if we get into how it should work IRL you would be getting away from a play style some actually enjoy. Magic aside, take scythe for example, the whole weapon is a fantasy based on a reaper that reaps souls instead of crops and has no practical combat design. though your idea would be interesting if it could be implemented as another option (or harpoon moved to an actual harpoon and get rid of progression trees) without taking away what is currently a niche play style. I think what I don't like to play personally is still interesting to watch and play alongside and/or against. (I went off on a tangent a little bit but I think this has the answer to your @Thomas9 suggestion so I will post it on your thread as well)

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Verdandi ()

    • Verdandi schrieb:

      angrad schrieb:

      the whole line is OP because of the way AA is multiplied.
      Do you mean the 70-105% auto attack damage with using haste's 60% attack speed? I think that's what keeps the spear viable as a dps weapon. I'm not sure how auto attack scales, but I think it is balanced at t6. If it's not at higher tiers (not saying it is, I haven't used any enchanted tiers yet) it would be a scaling issue and I hope they would only adjust the damage numbers. (are haste and spirit spear stacks purge able?)
      I actually did a write on it awhile ago. You can read about it here: Auto Attack Damage +% Attack Damage
    • Verdandi schrieb:

      I actually like that the spear uses allot of energy, it makes for more interesting game play IMO, not spamming all skills in a set order indefinitely. (again not sure how this scales, but it sounds(looks) like @PPx is high tier pike and is fine with the energy costs) Also @Thomas9I think there is only so much we can say about a weapon we don't care for and if we get into how it should work IRL you would be getting away from a play style some actually enjoy. Magic aside, take scythe for example, the whole weapon is a fantasy based on a reaper that reaps souls instead of crops and has no practical combat design. though your idea would be interesting if it could be implemented as another option (or harpoon moved to an actual harpoon and get rid of progression trees) without taking away what is currently a niche play style. I think what I don't like to play personally is still interesting to watch and play alongside and/or against. (I went off on a tangent a little bit but I think this has the answer to your @Thomas9 suggestion so I will post it on your thread as well)
      Firstable history and fantasy lesson. Fantasy usually meens middle age combined with magic and it meens that in Albion case for sure. Scythe aint a fantasy weapon. It is used a lot, but mostly by peasants, cause they had to use tools as weapons in fights. It is less used than most of the weapons, but still used. Theres also this war scythe what was a real weapon used by soldiers, but it was little bit different than the one we know. Scythe does devastating damage, but its heavy to use and bad in parrying. Still enemies feared it, cause it was brutal and also looked like really scary.

      Back to issue. Polearms should have their own weapon tree and those should separate from spear and sword (glaive). Now harpoon will go fine in spearline, but it also should be ability to choose and that way you have another option for pve or smaller pvp fights.
      I am just the guy who gives you a ride to the underworld.
      How to start build my character?
    • @Thomas9 Interesting, I did not know that. Thanks, I like learning new things. I had known the sickle was used, but not the scythe, though it makes sense as they had to use whatever they could get their hands on. The war scythe looks allot more effective, but not as unique. I wasn't trying to pick on the scythe, it does look cool. I suppose I was trying to make a point that it doesn't have to be too realistic combat wise, but I was wrong. The pike's harpoon ability does feel weird immersion wise, will continue discussion in your thread.

      @macor As far as game-play, there are some who like it as is. It is not meant to be a damaging skill. I would say the game-play for the halberd and spear and pike are completely different and the problem arises from wanting to play it the same way because it's on the same tree and gives you a bonus to your preferred weapon, not to mention you had to use it to get to that weapon.
    • Harpoon as a skill itself is great idea which gives one more fightning strategy, but unfortunately just for larger pvp figths. Thats why the pulling idea should not be thrown away and it should be in game. Actually they added aoe pull in arcane stuff with darian. So we have more pulls now. ;)

      Another solution if we have to keep current weapon trees. I would still change pike to lets say for weapon called javelin, which was intended to use fight in melee, but also for throwing. Now the harpoon skill goes way better with that. Still that harpoon skill should be changed somehow, so it keeps the pull ofc, but it would also be more useful in pve and in smaller pvp fights. If they leave to its current stage it might leave in minority use. Someone suggested that pulling a mob with harpoon it aggros only the pulled one. Does this make pve too easy with this weapon? It sure is useless for opener, cause it wont do any damage and if damage is increased it can be soon OP.
      I am just the guy who gives you a ride to the underworld.
      How to start build my character?
    • coffeelord schrieb:

      I think the issue with this thread is you wanna buff the strongest solo pvp tree even more than it already is that's herecy
      We are not trying to buff the whole tree, just figuring out how to make pike and it's ability harpoon more useful.

      I was wondering could there be two different kind of harpoon skills? Robed harpoon for pull and spiked harpoon for just damage. Damage can be quite moderate. And i know theres only one special ability / weapon. ;)
      I am just the guy who gives you a ride to the underworld.
      How to start build my character?
    • macor schrieb:

      Thomas9 schrieb:

      I was wondering could there be two different kind of harpoon skills? Robed harpoon for pull and spiked harpoon for just damage. Damage can be quite moderate. And i know theres only one special ability / weapon.
      I like that idea.
      Improved idea.

      New ability called "Javelin". Javelin is a spear which is used for throwing like harpoon. Maybe it could be that second option side of harpoon? Long throw like harpoon (25m) with moderate damage and roots the target for a while. Now its almost like harpoon, but used totally upside down. This would go fine in pve, but can also be an option for pvp.
      I am just the guy who gives you a ride to the underworld.
      How to start build my character?
    • Thomas9 schrieb:

      New ability called "Javelin". Javelin is a spear which is used for throwing like harpoon. Maybe it could be that second option side of harpoon? Long throw like harpoon (25m) with moderate damage and roots the target for a while. Now its almost like harpoon, but used totally upside down. This would go fine in pve, but can also be an option for pvp.
      nice idea. this way the pike gets a skill more for pve or different playstyles without taking a play-style away or unbalancing it for pvp. also more options for is a plus and seems to be the way forward.
    • As a 5.6 pike user i find the damage actually pretty good. The only thing i coud wish for is a some kind of boost for the E damage without changing the other aspects of the spell. Something like 20-50% would be fine for keeping the spell useable as a dmg dealing spell.

      I do solo and group pvp just fine with it.
    • Personally I think the Pike E harpoon could benefit from some Energy lowering. One 6.5 combo (3 Qs and Harpoon) is an incredible amount especially when you have to keep the Q stacked to output real damage in PvE or PvP.

      Also even at the highest rank the One Handed spear is completely useless. Low damage, low utility. Has a moderate amount of mobility but is still really... meh.