Is this A PVP game or a Farming Game?

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  • Is this A PVP game or a Farming Game?

    I am told that this is a PVP game, yet the time it takes to lose your gear vs the time it takes to replace it makes it a farming game. One can say you can buy it off the auction house, but then someone must farm in order to have it to sell. So the hours spent farming far far far out weight the hours pvp'ing.

    Example: Lets say you can farm some place and earn 100k per hour.. my equipment cost 300k to replace. I lose in one battle, I not only have to farm 3 hours to replace it, but someone with skill to produce the equipment for me to buy, whom will most likely spend another 3 hours making the equipment (by the time you factor in the time spend collecting, upgrading.. running back and forth to upgrade again.. and again.. and again.. 1 T6 Iron requires 6 grades of ore or access to 3 zones which will include 1 red zone. So in this example if you can survive 1 hour of PvP it will take 6 hours to replace the gear. Or a 6 hour of farming to 1 hour of pvp. That is a Farming game.

    One may make the arrogant argument of "don't die".. but again its not about your individual experience.. its about is it a PVP game or a Farming Game. If you don't die then your opponent will die or your party member will die.. but the fact is someone will lose their gear and it will lead to two choices.. 1. Quit the game, 2. Replace your gear. If you Replace the gear but then end up spending 3 hours farming for 5 mins of fun.. after a month of this option 1 will be more inviting.. or you could become a farmer, but then that reduces the amount of people to PvP and again makes it a Farming game and not a PvP Game.

    Another may say.. join a zerg guild that has lots of Farmers... but then that does not address the fact that its a Farm Game. If its a Farm Game then call it a Farm game.

    For those that used to play the old UO... one could spend 2 or 3 hours a week and farm enough to die 20 times that week. That is a PvP game. but here if you die 20 times your talking 120 hours of farming. This of course is at a T6 level.. no clue on how much it sucks at higher Tier.

    Don't get me wrong, I love full loot and don't mind doing the walk of shame at times.. but if I wanted to do a farm game, there are some really cool apps for $1.99 that can satisfy that desire.

    one thinks that if its to easy to get stuff then it will kill the market, but that would be a socialist mentality. We like stuff.. and if my chests are filled to the brim rest assured I will be happy to lose a whole lot of stuff in PvP.
  • Kisgard wrote:

    I am told that this is a PVP game, yet the time it takes to lose your gear vs the time it takes to replace it makes it a farming game. One can say you can buy it off the auction house, but then someone must farm in order to have it to sell. So the hours spent farming far far far out weight the hours pvp'ing.

    Example: Lets say you can farm some place and earn 100k per hour.. my equipment cost 300k to replace. I lose in one battle, I not only have to farm 3 hours to replace it, but someone with skill to produce the equipment for me to buy, whom will most likely spend another 3 hours making the equipment (by the time you factor in the time spend collecting, upgrading.. running back and forth to upgrade again.. and again.. and again.. 1 T6 Iron requires 6 grades of ore or access to 3 zones which will include 1 red zone. So in this example if you can survive 1 hour of PvP it will take 6 hours to replace the gear. Or a 6 hour of farming to 1 hour of pvp. That is a Farming game.

    One may make the arrogant argument of "don't die".. but again its not about your individual experience.. its about is it a PVP game or a Farming Game. If you don't die then your opponent will die or your party member will die.. but the fact is someone will lose their gear and it will lead to two choices.. 1. Quit the game, 2. Replace your gear. If you Replace the gear but then end up spending 3 hours farming for 5 mins of fun.. after a month of this option 1 will be more inviting.. or you could become a farmer, but then that reduces the amount of people to PvP and again makes it a Farming game and not a PvP Game.

    Another may say.. join a zerg guild that has lots of Farmers... but then that does not address the fact that its a Farm Game. If its a Farm Game then call it a Farm game.

    For those that used to play the old UO... one could spend 2 or 3 hours a week and farm enough to die 20 times that week. That is a PvP game. but here if you die 20 times your talking 120 hours of farming. This of course is at a T6 level.. no clue on how much it sucks at higher Tier.

    Don't get me wrong, I love full loot and don't mind doing the walk of shame at times.. but if I wanted to do a farm game, there are some really cool apps for $1.99 that can satisfy that desire.

    one thinks that if its to easy to get stuff then it will kill the market, but that would be a socialist mentality. We like stuff.. and if my chests are filled to the brim rest assured I will be happy to lose a whole lot of stuff in PvP.
    Just curious, what set is costing you 300k to replace? I personally run t8 base light cloth (can wear 5.4 enchanted) and a 6.2 warbow (can wear 7.2). I have also leveled my .3 light leather lines for the item power bonus, but i dont use that gear because it is too expensive. By using the cheaper/more accessible line i am able to gather/craft virtually unlimited armor sets without having to pay a dime for gems/runes. Sure it took some investment to be able to gather the mats/refine them, but it is an MMO, that sort of thing always goes hand in hand.

    What i am trying to say is, be smart and use gear you can afford to lose. Also, even if you are 6.3 on your armor, you can still wear the less expensive 4.3 and gain fame towards your next tier. Part of every sandbox/full loot PvP game is building your economy to be able to replace armor/weapons.
  • Zerosum wrote:

    1. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    2. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    3. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace
    Dude stop making sense ok.

    1. Bring the best gear you can't replace so you can quit the game after losing it all.

    2. Bring the best gear thinking that gear > skill / zergs

    3. Bring the best gear so I can make money looting you.
  • Actually while @Ralgur is rather blunt about it, he has the right idea. Since Albion is a sandbox full loot MMO a healthy crafting economy is essential to the game. Part of that economy is the destruction/loss and crafting of equipment.

    So if you are just out farming trees for wood, then wear only the gear that will allow you to survive random mob encounters. Or as @Lewk said, choose your equipment carefully so that you can progress up a certain tree without having to wear the most expensive equipment you can wear,.
    Good luck and Good skill!
    My referral link: albiononline.com/?ref=XK8PRWZMEE
  • As more players enter the world, the economy will stabilize and things will balance out. The comments about don't wear armor you can't afford to replace, is really right on... This game is neither a PVO game or a farming game, it's an open world, full loot PVP sandbox, which means farming is important, PVP is important, and lots of other things are important. There are many avenues to lead your character along, and all of them should be rewarding to the player.
  • All I have to add is this.

    This is beta, many things will change. It may take a while after launch for economy to be stable. And as people progress things will most likely drop in price as the demand of certain items will lower.

    If you want to stick with the top players and compete with there gear it's a different story thou.

    What makes me sad panda about this is how crafting works now together with destiny board. The choice of weapon or armor type shouldn't be based on fame or materials needed for crafting. I suggest all weapons and armor should have the same base material used and as the tier goes up it adds runes and gems.

    Best regards
    Beelaz
    Best regards
    Beelaz
  • Zerosum wrote:

    1. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    2. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    3. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace
    I know a person who does this ... then wants to borrow silver from everyone to port lol

    Zero is spot on with this right here ~ Only wear what you can replace once you do this the game turns fun again I promise you :)

    Oh and the game is what you make out of it imo
    ~ Hohoz ~

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Hohohz ().

  • Kisgard wrote:

    I am told that this is a PVP game, yet the time it takes to lose your gear vs the time it takes to replace it makes it a farming game. One can say you can buy it off the auction house, but then someone must farm in order to have it to sell. So the hours spent farming far far far out weight the hours pvp'ing.

    Example: Lets say you can farm some place and earn 100k per hour.. my equipment cost 300k to replace. I lose in one battle, I not only have to farm 3 hours to replace it, but someone with skill to produce the equipment for me to buy, whom will most likely spend another 3 hours making the equipment (by the time you factor in the time spend collecting, upgrading.. running back and forth to upgrade again.. and again.. and again.. 1 T6 Iron requires 6 grades of ore or access to 3 zones which will include 1 red zone. So in this example if you can survive 1 hour of PvP it will take 6 hours to replace the gear. Or a 6 hour of farming to 1 hour of pvp. That is a Farming game.

    One may make the arrogant argument of "don't die".. but again its not about your individual experience.. its about is it a PVP game or a Farming Game. If you don't die then your opponent will die or your party member will die.. but the fact is someone will lose their gear and it will lead to two choices.. 1. Quit the game, 2. Replace your gear. If you Replace the gear but then end up spending 3 hours farming for 5 mins of fun.. after a month of this option 1 will be more inviting.. or you could become a farmer, but then that reduces the amount of people to PvP and again makes it a Farming game and not a PvP Game.

    Another may say.. join a zerg guild that has lots of Farmers... but then that does not address the fact that its a Farm Game. If its a Farm Game then call it a Farm game.

    For those that used to play the old UO... one could spend 2 or 3 hours a week and farm enough to die 20 times that week. That is a PvP game. but here if you die 20 times your talking 120 hours of farming. This of course is at a T6 level.. no clue on how much it sucks at higher Tier.

    Don't get me wrong, I love full loot and don't mind doing the walk of shame at times.. but if I wanted to do a farm game, there are some really cool apps for $1.99 that can satisfy that desire.

    one thinks that if its to easy to get stuff then it will kill the market, but that would be a socialist mentality. We like stuff.. and if my chests are filled to the brim rest assured I will be happy to lose a whole lot of stuff in PvP.
    I don't like that either

    Zerosum wrote:

    1. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    2. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    3. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace
    yeah lets run around in t4 and get whaled by a t8

    mmmkay

    Summery-

    While Zero's opinion is the traditional viewpoint of gamers in regard to a game like this but it does not help pvp if you haven't got a guild to do the grinding for you in order to compete at the highest level. To kisgaard I don't think grind should be the default progress slower that MMOs use to slow your progress so you maintain subscription but I am not a dev and this is not my game.

    I am sure in time S.I will try to diversify but it first has to have a sound foundation in which to work.

    <3 storm
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  • Nightran wrote:

    No sustainable mmo can last if you can buy sets with 2-3 hours of farming.
    Not true at all, the time spent Farming is not dictated by a programmer. As a "sandbox" it means that the individual decides. I remember in UO I used to have stacks of 60k ingots all colors, on my patio just for bragging rights. My chests were also full of other people Armor from PVP. and other I am sure had their Chests full of my armor I lost. But at no time was there ever a lack of buyers.. because pvp happened so often, that people lose stuff and need to instantly replace it. So they go to a Vendor buy what they wanted and 5 mins later they are out fighting again. You appear to assume that people will only want 1 or 2 sets, when people will take 100 sets if they can afford it. and If it all gets trashed in one night they will buy 100 more. I would love to go to a red zone and either lose 10 sets pvping or make someone else lost 10 sets pvping. that is a PvP game.
  • Zerosum wrote:

    1. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    2. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    3. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace
    I think Stormlord addresses your comments well. I might also point out that your points mean that a Zerg guild with 600 farmers can afford to deck out 20 pvp players. so in a 5v5 or in any red zone the zerg guild wins because they can afford to replace top tier items. But my math still holds true, it takes many more man hours of play to farm than it does to pvp. So it is primarily a farm game and pvp is a small fraction of the hours spent.

    So in essence the game is making people gravitate into Zerg Guilds and Farming. With minimal pvp outside of that realm. It really is a math problem. One that currently promotes the Hive mind set.
  • Kisgard wrote:

    Zerosum wrote:

    1. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    2. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    3. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace
    I think Stormlord addresses your comments well. I might also point out that your points mean that a Zerg guild with 600 farmers can afford to deck out 20 pvp players. so in a 5v5 or in any red zone the zerg guild wins because they can afford to replace top tier items. But my math still holds true, it takes many more man hours of play to farm than it does to pvp. So it is primarily a farm game and pvp is a small fraction of the hours spent.
    So in essence the game is making people gravitate into Zerg Guilds and Farming. With minimal pvp outside of that realm. It really is a math problem. One that currently promotes the Hive mind set.
    Well you are wrong. I don't Zerg and I do just fine.

    Not to mention that if you follow @Korn you will understand that there will be lots of additional tools and enhancements made to the game between now and release that addresses this. The game is not finished, why do you people make these judgements?
  • Stormlord wrote:

    Kisgard wrote:

    I am told that this is a PVP game, yet the time it takes to lose your gear vs the time it takes to replace it makes it a farming game. One can say you can buy it off the auction house, but then someone must farm in order to have it to sell. So the hours spent farming far far far out weight the hours pvp'ing.

    Example: Lets say you can farm some place and earn 100k per hour.. my equipment cost 300k to replace. I lose in one battle, I not only have to farm 3 hours to replace it, but someone with skill to produce the equipment for me to buy, whom will most likely spend another 3 hours making the equipment (by the time you factor in the time spend collecting, upgrading.. running back and forth to upgrade again.. and again.. and again.. 1 T6 Iron requires 6 grades of ore or access to 3 zones which will include 1 red zone. So in this example if you can survive 1 hour of PvP it will take 6 hours to replace the gear. Or a 6 hour of farming to 1 hour of pvp. That is a Farming game.

    One may make the arrogant argument of "don't die".. but again its not about your individual experience.. its about is it a PVP game or a Farming Game. If you don't die then your opponent will die or your party member will die.. but the fact is someone will lose their gear and it will lead to two choices.. 1. Quit the game, 2. Replace your gear. If you Replace the gear but then end up spending 3 hours farming for 5 mins of fun.. after a month of this option 1 will be more inviting.. or you could become a farmer, but then that reduces the amount of people to PvP and again makes it a Farming game and not a PvP Game.

    Another may say.. join a zerg guild that has lots of Farmers... but then that does not address the fact that its a Farm Game. If its a Farm Game then call it a Farm game.

    For those that used to play the old UO... one could spend 2 or 3 hours a week and farm enough to die 20 times that week. That is a PvP game. but here if you die 20 times your talking 120 hours of farming. This of course is at a T6 level.. no clue on how much it sucks at higher Tier.

    Don't get me wrong, I love full loot and don't mind doing the walk of shame at times.. but if I wanted to do a farm game, there are some really cool apps for $1.99 that can satisfy that desire.

    one thinks that if its to easy to get stuff then it will kill the market, but that would be a socialist mentality. We like stuff.. and if my chests are filled to the brim rest assured I will be happy to lose a whole lot of stuff in PvP.
    I don't like that either

    Zerosum wrote:

    1. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    2. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    3. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace
    yeah lets run around in t4 and get whaled by a t8
    mmmkay

    Summery-

    While Zero's opinion is the traditional viewpoint of gamers in regard to a game like this but it does not help pvp if you haven't got a guild to do the grinding for you in order to compete at the highest level. To kisgaard I don't think grind should be the default progress slower that MMOs use to slow your progress so you maintain subscription but I am not a dev and this is not my game.

    I am sure in time S.I will try to diversify but it first has to have a sound foundation in which to work.

    <3 storm

    Stormlord wrote:

    Kisgard wrote:

    I am told that this is a PVP game, yet the time it takes to lose your gear vs the time it takes to replace it makes it a farming game. One can say you can buy it off the auction house, but then someone must farm in order to have it to sell. So the hours spent farming far far far out weight the hours pvp'ing.

    Example: Lets say you can farm some place and earn 100k per hour.. my equipment cost 300k to replace. I lose in one battle, I not only have to farm 3 hours to replace it, but someone with skill to produce the equipment for me to buy, whom will most likely spend another 3 hours making the equipment (by the time you factor in the time spend collecting, upgrading.. running back and forth to upgrade again.. and again.. and again.. 1 T6 Iron requires 6 grades of ore or access to 3 zones which will include 1 red zone. So in this example if you can survive 1 hour of PvP it will take 6 hours to replace the gear. Or a 6 hour of farming to 1 hour of pvp. That is a Farming game.

    One may make the arrogant argument of "don't die".. but again its not about your individual experience.. its about is it a PVP game or a Farming Game. If you don't die then your opponent will die or your party member will die.. but the fact is someone will lose their gear and it will lead to two choices.. 1. Quit the game, 2. Replace your gear. If you Replace the gear but then end up spending 3 hours farming for 5 mins of fun.. after a month of this option 1 will be more inviting.. or you could become a farmer, but then that reduces the amount of people to PvP and again makes it a Farming game and not a PvP Game.

    Another may say.. join a zerg guild that has lots of Farmers... but then that does not address the fact that its a Farm Game. If its a Farm Game then call it a Farm game.

    For those that used to play the old UO... one could spend 2 or 3 hours a week and farm enough to die 20 times that week. That is a PvP game. but here if you die 20 times your talking 120 hours of farming. This of course is at a T6 level.. no clue on how much it sucks at higher Tier.

    Don't get me wrong, I love full loot and don't mind doing the walk of shame at times.. but if I wanted to do a farm game, there are some really cool apps for $1.99 that can satisfy that desire.

    one thinks that if its to easy to get stuff then it will kill the market, but that would be a socialist mentality. We like stuff.. and if my chests are filled to the brim rest assured I will be happy to lose a whole lot of stuff in PvP.
    I don't like that either

    Zerosum wrote:

    1. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    2. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace

    3. Don't wear gear you can't afford to replace
    yeah lets run around in t4 and get whaled by a t8
    mmmkay

    Summery-

    While Zero's opinion is the traditional viewpoint of gamers in regard to a game like this but it does not help pvp if you haven't got a guild to do the grinding for you in order to compete at the highest level. To kisgaard I don't think grind should be the default progress slower that MMOs use to slow your progress so you maintain subscription but I am not a dev and this is not my game.

    I am sure in time S.I will try to diversify but it first has to have a sound foundation in which to work.

    <3 storm
    I agree Storm, It should not be about a grind and doesn't need to be a grind. If I could PVP and lose 10 sets of armor in a night and replace it that night, then I will pvp tomorrow night and lose 10 more sets and be happy about and the guys killing me will be happy as well. But if I can only replace it once then when I die, I am done and that means the winner can't pvp anymore either, because there are no opponents left they all went farming. So in the end its a farming game until they make the gear easier to get.

    Currently the Zerg guilds are happy because they feel pumped up because they have 600 farmers and can afford the best items and beat the snott out of T4 T5 players and see nothing wrong with saying "only wear what you can afford to lose" not really understanding that they couldn't afford it either if they didn't have all the farmers so they don't even live up to their own standard the math does not support there statement.



    I hope your right that they will tweak it because this game has lots of potential which is why I posted the original point.

    People who don't want to farm or be a Zerg will have little to do and this game has to much going for it to just be thrown away to the Zerg Hive mindset. So long as their is PVP with full loot, there is no End Game just fun and bragging rights.