Nature Staff and Holy Staff comparison | Healer Bugs

  • Nature Staff and Holy Staff comparison | Healer Bugs

    So far I really like the changes to both staffs but I believe there is still quite a big difference. Holy staff was already strong and has a new ability that will work wonders in GvG and its no doubt a really nice spell. Nature has some new spells we were supposed to get at 5.2(cleanse heal,mushroom) etc but the big underlying issue is energy cost. I've tested both with the same proper gear and it seems Holy can still spam while Nature's energy dies down extremely fast. I recommend taking a look at energy costs if we want Nature to be very viable. Also the damage spell on the staff is still a bit useless, it would be nice if we could have an alternative damage spell to be able to farm mobs a bit. I haven't tested to much PvE on the server but I'd like to see if we still have the issue of Healers not getting fame when farming with others and healing them. I've ran into this problem a lost yesterday so I had to start attacking the mobs to get the fame.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Klien ().

  • Klien wrote:

    So far I really like the changes to both staffs but I believe there is still quite a big difference. Holy staff was already strong and has a new ability that will work wonders in GvG and its no doubt a really nice spell. Nature has some new spells we were supposed to get at 5.2(cleanse heal,mushroom) etc but the big underlying issue is energy cost. I've tested both with the same proper gear and it seems Holy can still spam while Nature's energy dies down extremely fast. I recommend taking a look at energy costs if we want Nature to be very viable. Also the damage spell on the staff is still a bit useless, it would be nice if we could have an alternative damage spell to be able to farm mobs a bit. I haven't tested to much PvE on the server but I'd like to see if we still have the issue of Healers not getting fame when farming with others and healing them. I've ran into this problem a lost yesterday so I had to start attacking the mobs to get the fame.
    this has literally been brought up so many times at this point that it's astounding nothing has been done.

    Nature Staff?
    Nature Staff Compendium

    The Energy consumption is only part of the issue, as you'll see when you get to cleanse/mushroom heals.... literally the t3 nature staff is the best it gets, and it's downhill from there. 4.2/4.3 are unbearable with the consumption costs and the cleanse is broken/not effective as you give up your one raw burst heal. The shrooms are bugged in that they currently can be used to heal enemies and or mobs......

    The state of this line is dire and in need of an entire overhaul. the ONLY ability that works and functions well right now is rejuvenate.

    The PVE fame issue has been resolved for the most part or at least vastly upgraded.. however there is nothing in place to put value to being a healer in pve. I get no fame literally for the work I put in, nothing for healing done, nothing for support given not even pretty numbers in my stats window. and most importantly *zero* fame. I've been in more sieges than I can count and 10x as many open world fights, and I have less than 10k PVP fame. sitting in 4.3 gear while my dps partners are literally leveling 5.2 daggers with just pvp fame......

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Fontaine ().

  • Well now 3.0 and on are just completely ruined. The AOE heal only heals 4 targets now. Nature staff is literally trash now until you get to 4.3 which is unbearable because not only are you a healer but you cant even heal properly. I dont understand why they did this..the spell even says that it heals every target within a 7m radius. Its already enough that were dealing with the current issues of the staff but this just tops it off.
  • Hi all,

    thanks for the feedback.

    I ask you to be a bit patient with us, as there are literally tons of things we have to improve / are working on - and the beta is only a little more than 2 weeks old.

    One of the main focus points of the beta test is balance. Our goal is to have a very good overall balance at the end of the beta test, which will run at least until end of February.

    So keep the feedback coming, but do not get nervous if stuff does not get fixed straight away.

    All the best,
    Korn
  • Korn wrote:

    Hi all,

    thanks for the feedback.

    I ask you to be a bit patient with us, as there are literally tons of things we have to improve / are working on - and the beta is only a little more than 2 weeks old.

    One of the main focus points of the beta test is balance. Our goal is to have a very good overall balance at the end of the beta test, which will run at least until end of February.

    So keep the feedback coming, but do not get nervous if stuff does not get fixed straight away.

    All the best,
    Korn
    Thanks, I'll do my best to hold on for now, its just really frustrating because of how hard it is to be viable as a nature staff player at the moment. Energy consumption REALLY needs to be looked at and regular nature staff needs to get its AOE heal back. Also I think one of the most important things at the moment, is 4.2 nature's brief of life spell. It costs an immense amount of energy while being a very useless spell. All the other details are in other threads if you want to take a look but this is my feedback for now.
  • Retroman wrote:

    Thanks for all the feedback! You are right the energy consumption is pretty high on Nature Staffs right now. I will have another look at the values.
    Great to hear! Also If it hasn't been reported yet I suggest taking a look at the Rejuvenating Mushroom as well because it can currently heal enemy players and mobs which is a disaster. I'll keep updating if I find something else wrong.
  • Korn wrote:

    Hi all,

    thanks for the feedback.

    I ask you to be a bit patient with us, as there are literally tons of things we have to improve / are working on - and the beta is only a little more than 2 weeks old.

    One of the main focus points of the beta test is balance. Our goal is to have a very good overall balance at the end of the beta test, which will run at least until end of February.

    So keep the feedback coming, but do not get nervous if stuff does not get fixed straight away.

    All the best,
    Korn
    @Korn,

    Please understand that we all realize you have a huge list of issues on your plate.

    If your main focus is really on balance then issues with a completely broken and underwhelming part of the game should be addressed.

    Healing is a fundamental issue in this game right now regardless of which staff is being worn.

    I don't expect issues to be fixed overnight,(in fact I hope they aren't and well thought out/tested before implemented) but I do expect the feedback we give to at least be under consideration when changes happen. I would like to maybe see dialogue started between the players who use this class and the devs to find out your vision for it, what you see this role being and why you make the changes you have. If we understand where the class is now, and what direction you're headed it allows us to make a decision to stick with it or move on to trying another build. It also gives us a peace of mind when we want/like something that you acknowledge it.

    I'd LOVE to hear the logic behind the x.1 AOE heal nerf... literally feels like it was from out of no-where and has no reasoning behind it. and adding a stack on Q??? where did that come from? Raw numbers are too low, not stack counts


    Glad to hear that Mushroom will be fixed, as it feels really fun to play, but too risky right now!!! (I'd also love to see this come with a form of "energy renewal hot" or something cool)

    x.2 and x.3 are the worst of the problems right now and need to be looked at drastically!!!!
    Cleanse, is on so many items/other builds.... at least make mine somehow different (heal meaningful/do something special) or do something else with this slot (cc)
    Arcane gets a "Purge" to shut my Hots down, what is my counter to this?
    I would love to see the Nature turn into an Offensive Healer that supports his group through sustained heals and smart use of CC/support abilities
    Damage shield is not a great use, and now the E heal is useless. the ONLY ability that I feel is worth the time is the 4.3 AOE heal, but it literally takes eons to get there, especially with how impossible soloing is on a nature stave (I've resorted to hitting a mob with a sword then switching to nature at the last second in a vain attempt to get to 4.3)

    I really want to see this turn into a cc/dot/healer spec...
    It's in the hunter tree after all....

    I liked playing nature with leather, as it added an alternate playstyle and allows for a different set of actives, but with energy costs as they are currently you HAVE to run cloth and energy pots to heal for longer than 30 seconds....

    We have an anti cc/support class in the Arcane, why cant Nature be single target CC/ or master of DoTs and HoTs?

    The post was edited 6 times, last by Fontaine ().

  • I play as a Healer too guys (Holy Staff) and I heard it before, but Im not sure, if have you all notice.
    Only healing groups, are we getting full fame from mobs???
    I feel that my progress is a bit slow if I don't auto attack the mobs, i only see the silver+, but no fame+.
    Can it be a visual/graphic issue?
    Or we don't get fame if we don't hit the mob at least once with auto attack?

    'Spin to win'

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Carpazzo ().

  • Retroman wrote:

    Thanks for all the feedback! You are right the energy consumption is pretty high on Nature Staffs right now. I will have another look at the values.
    I am super excited that you've addressed this I cannot wait to see what happens with it. I hope you guys are thinking this should be long term sustain and will fix the consumption numbers accordingly... Make it expensive for me to burst (its not my specialty) but affordable as snot for me to sustain heals over time and make the numbers actually heal for enough to sustain, I should be able to negate damage enough to be meaningful. and if you add in cc/damage put it in slots that make me sacrifice burst healing or mushrooms or something I will have to "give up" not taking away my one decent hot (Q) for a sup par dot that still post patch does less damage than auto attacking with the HoT on myself.

    I really love this line, and I hope you guys do too!!

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Fontaine ().

  • Korn wrote:

    Hi all,

    thanks for the feedback.

    I ask you to be a bit patient with us, as there are literally tons of things we have to improve / are working on - and the beta is only a little more than 2 weeks old.

    One of the main focus points of the beta test is balance. Our goal is to have a very good overall balance at the end of the beta test, which will run at least until end of February.

    So keep the feedback coming, but do not get nervous if stuff does not get fixed straight away.

    All the best,
    Korn
    I think the two staves are to much alike right now. I mean I see some differences.... could I suggest maybe either making the nature staff with a Shape shifting ability with heals..or perhaps make one staff a Heal over time and one staff great for aoe heals. Out of these I ideas I like shape shifting the best =].
  • Tail wrote:

    Korn wrote:

    Hi all,

    thanks for the feedback.

    I ask you to be a bit patient with us, as there are literally tons of things we have to improve / are working on - and the beta is only a little more than 2 weeks old.

    One of the main focus points of the beta test is balance. Our goal is to have a very good overall balance at the end of the beta test, which will run at least until end of February.

    So keep the feedback coming, but do not get nervous if stuff does not get fixed straight away.

    All the best,
    Korn
    I think the two staves are to much alike right now. I mean I see some differences.... could I suggest maybe either making the nature staff with a Shape shifting ability with heals..or perhaps make one staff a Heal over time and one staff great for aoe heals. Out of these I ideas I like shape shifting the best =].
    Please No
  • Ravenar wrote:

    I am fine if the Holy Staff is the main healer staff, but give Nature Staff something useful. Still planning to carry it as my secondary (or 3rd or 4th) weapon. Just one melee stun or something to make it bit different...?

    Entangle?
    I don't like your idea of a "main healer" staff. This isn't wow with 30 man raids and multiple healers... Have you done 5v5 sieges? do you really think there is enough room for 2 healers on that team? It's already so bad with BOTH lines that people are starting to take NO healer and just more DPS......... No, Nature and Holy should be equal in status but function in different ways.. Not one's an off spec and one's a "main healer" that is absolutely garbage thinking, and It's why the nature line is already in the toilet.

    I'm not dropping millions of fame via auto attacking to be a off-healer you can pound sand if you think like this.
    As it is, people are not dropping millions of fame on nature because of how impossible it is to grind, now you want to label us off-spec healers??

    Go back to your holy staff and leave the nature guys alone!
  • Seemed I touched a nerve there...

    It is just how druids and rangers have been in fantasy based games, I always thought they would be more varied in options you can do buth maybe slightly less powerful in some ways as the clean Priest or Warrior way. I come from D&D world (yeah, I am old) and in basic rules Rangers were limited to max chain armor and not sure about druids but pretty sure they never matched the pure healer priests.


    What I am trying to say that there should be room in groups and more than that for us soloists to do more than one thing and I always thought that the Hunter line was that. But Bows are weak and nature staff weak so at the moment we do not have anything.

    I don't play staves at all. I know they are OP, just not my thing. I hate Harry Potter films 8o

    edit: quarterstaff seems the only good hunter weapon at the moment and even over that I prefer maces and axes... I want to like the hunter gear, it is just difficult.
    IGN/Discord : Ravenar#2076
    Join Albion
  • Ravenar wrote:

    Seemed I touched a nerve there...

    It is just how druids and rangers have been in fantasy based games, I always thought they would be more varied in options you can do buth maybe slightly less powerful in some ways as the clean Priest or Warrior way. I come from D&D world (yeah, I am old) and in basic rules Rangers were limited to max chain armor and not sure about druids but pretty sure they never matched the pure healer priests.


    What I am trying to say that there should be room in groups and more than that for us soloists to do more than one thing and I always thought that the Hunter line was that. But Bows are weak and nature staff weak so at the moment we do not have anything.

    I don't play staves at all. I know they are OP, just not my thing. I hate Harry Potter films 8o

    edit: quarterstaff seems the only good hunter weapon at the moment and even over that I prefer maces and axes... I want to like the hunter gear, it is just difficult.
    I understand that you follow the "Class system" role for this, but there isn't supposed to be "Classes" in this system. and yes, I would agree a Priest archtype would be suited toward being a "main healer" and a "druid" archtype would be suited to a soloist with off-spec heals. I don't think this game follows the hard class logic that DnD and others typically follow. Also, if that was the case then why do we not have ANY of the other spells/features associated with that arch-type? no roots, tangle, barely a dot etc... and I agree right now the "Warrior" lineup is just volumes above the hunter one, and the "mage" lineup is not far behind the warrior.... the nature staff is the bottom of the bottom of the lowest barrel in the tree that is the issue.
  • I agree, both the druid (nature staff) and ranger (dagger, bows) need some unique skills to differentiate them from the pure tank healer types.

    Entangle or Barkskin or something... But yeat I shouldn't talk too much still opening T4 on my nature staff it is pain to gain fame on... And there are so many more interesting stuff to try atm.
    IGN/Discord : Ravenar#2076
    Join Albion
  • Ravenar wrote:

    I agree, both the druid (nature staff) and ranger (dagger, bows) need some unique skills to differentiate them from the pure tank healer types.

    Entangle or Barkskin or something... But yeat I shouldn't talk too much still opening T4 on my nature staff it is pain to gain fame on... And there are so many more interesting stuff to try atm.
    What's funny is if you go look at the nature staff lineup during Alpha, it was broken down more like the standard staves are now IE Fire/Ice/Holy/Cursed was something like Restoration,Annihilation,Dominance Etc so you'd be able to swap staves depending on the role you wanted.. I wish they would bring this back, you level the entire "Nature" tree(IE any staff in the line counts towards leveling via fame) but you can "Spec" your staff at the time to provide you with the type of role you want to fill. This would let us be able to use a staff for dps(solo) a staff for CC (Without heals) and a staff for Healing (Hots) it would limit you to being able to do one role at a time, but overall allow more options for what to do. You could even do the same thing with the other trees (IE Melee Daggers/Claws Ranged Bows/Crowbows/Throwing knives etc) make one of them for damage, one for some form of cc play and one for utility (think double daggers damage/qstaff cc/Claws utility or something) I'd like this approach much better and it wouldn't feel so grindy if you could customize yourself to the situation. just my .02 specific to nature I don't know how it'd work expanding to other lines though. and I'll also say that it's not as needed in the other lines simply because anything else in this game holy staff included can at least solo to t6, but nature literally cannot.