Mists

    • Mists

      Please consider making separate mists for people with 8.1 and above and for people with 8.0 and below .... 8.2/8.3/8.4 killing t5,t6 ,t7 and t8 without counter play is just not very trilling gameplay in my opinion, it just makes rich people richer and poor people poorer.

      another suggestion: consider making dismounting someone with much lower IP than yours harder.


      Best of luck and have a great day.

      Edit: the suggestions above are not complains for loosing gear against high tier people, the idea behind them is to equalize the risk a bit which could lead to more people into mists which are wiling to fight and more action , instead of high tier ganging/ oneshooting low tier players or rating with very low IP.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Beyolf ().

    • They did. There is non lethal Mists with lesser rewards that matches up risk/reward wise for people not willing to wear gear. Rats wearing T5 shit do not belong in the real Mists.

      With that said it is absurd the Devs allow high IP in the non lethal Mists. That should definitely be heavy capped.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Tabor ().

    • i am talking about lethal mists with separate IPs, because as i said its not very trilling gameplay to go against 8.1/8.2/8.3/8.4 with t5/t6/t7 ....

      I agree that rating should be addressed too especially the cursed staff rats. but to be honest for me killing t6/t7 people as 8.3/8.4 is also a form of ratting with little to no chance to escape if you get dismounted. And the most funny part is to see 8.3/8.4 not fighting among them selfs but only searching for lower tier people because its a guarantee win.

      The concern which i am trying to address is not loosing a fight or gear, but losing without a chance to fight back or escape and non lethal mists are not the answer to that.

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Beyolf ().

    • Getting rid of mounts would be a huge equalizer.

      regardless of Ip, we have all the same move speed.

      Gucci boy would have to bust his move speed to gank anyone and in turn make him super vulnerable to anyone who catches him mid fight.

      Plus he can’t easy pick and choose fights by scouting.

      • "Gucci boy would have to bust his move speed to gank anyone and in turn make him super vulnerable to anyone who catches him mid fight."
      That applies to everybody not specifically to gucci geared people.. many many times i am in a middle of a fight with a person around my level and a 8.3 comes and kill us both.. so this is nothing specific to gucci people. Also thats why most of the gucci people which i see run fiend cowl for the purge so when they dismount you dont escape.

      • "Plus he can’t easy pick and choose fights by scouting"


      He does not need to , thats why he is with such gucci gear.

      • "Getting rid of mounts would be a huge equalizer."


      If you mean to get into the mists on foot, i do not support that idea, because it makes lower tier people even more vulnerable to get killed with no chance of fighting back or escape.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Beyolf ().

    • You do understand they have to first FIND you by running around then they have to bust their run speed / gap closers to get to you right?

      Do you ever see third partiers / Gucci boys right now just running around? Why is that? Because they have an advantage on a mount. Free gap closer that allows them an escape or chase if it either goes south or you take off. Gucci boy fucks up an engage with no mount, it means he’s already busted his run speed most likely and then is extremely vulnerable to anyone as he’s finishing off his target.

      Imagine wearing 8.X+ gear and having to just run around a zone with 4-5 other players that you have no idea where they are at, you must use run speed to get to any one of them to attack. It’s an unsettling feeling knowing that any objective you try to take and someone comes along, you may try to run away right into another player and easily lose all your gear.

      Ironically, the - only- people that have a significant advantage with mounts is Gucci boys and guys with high mobility. It allows both security to ensure Gucci boys have a quick escape to mount up with undead robe, and it allows high mobility builds a free gap closer that allows them to fully damage and chase with their toolset when they dismount on you.

      All mounts for T6-T8 players is a false sense of security when around other Gucci players. You have neither the armor on the mount to resist attacks without dismounting or the health to survive if you are dismounted.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by BurnsidePDX ().

    • BurnsidePDX wrote:

      You do understand they have to first FIND you by running around then they have to bust their run speed / gap closers to get to you right?

      Do you ever see third partiers / Gucci boys right now just running around? Why is that? Because they have an advantage on a mount. Free gap closer that allows them an escape or chase if it either goes south or you take off. Gucci boy fucks up an engage with no mount, it means he’s already busted his run speed most likely and then is extremely vulnerable to anyone as he’s finishing off his target.

      Imagine wearing 8.X+ gear and having to just run around a zone with 4-5 other players that you have no idea where they are at, you must use run speed to get to any one of them to attack. It’s an unsettling feeling knowing that any objective you try to take and someone comes along, you may try to run away right into another player and easily lose all your gear.

      Ironically, the - only- people that have a significant advantage with mounts is Gucci boys and guys with high mobility. It allows both security to ensure Gucci boys have a quick escape to mount up with undead robe, and it allows high mobility builds a free gap closer that allows them to fully damage and chase with their toolset when they dismount on you.

      All mounts for T6-T8 players is a false sense of security when around other Gucci players. You have neither the armor on the mount to resist attacks without dismounting or the health to survive if you are dismounted.
      Hmm .. on a second thought you are right and i am wrong. it will definitely increase the risk to run around in gucci gear, but it will also for everybody else, which could lead to going into mists only with very very mobile builds.... to be honest its an interesting idea, sorry for denying it on the first look

      The post was edited 8 times, last by Beyolf ().

    • Beyolf wrote:

      BurnsidePDX wrote:

      You do understand they have to first FIND you by running around then they have to bust their run speed / gap closers to get to you right?

      Do you ever see third partiers / Gucci boys right now just running around? Why is that? Because they have an advantage on a mount. Free gap closer that allows them an escape or chase if it either goes south or you take off. Gucci boy fucks up an engage with no mount, it means he’s already busted his run speed most likely and then is extremely vulnerable to anyone as he’s finishing off his target.

      Imagine wearing 8.X+ gear and having to just run around a zone with 4-5 other players that you have no idea where they are at, you must use run speed to get to any one of them to attack. It’s an unsettling feeling knowing that any objective you try to take and someone comes along, you may try to run away right into another player and easily lose all your gear.

      Ironically, the - only- people that have a significant advantage with mounts is Gucci boys and guys with high mobility. It allows both security to ensure Gucci boys have a quick escape to mount up with undead robe, and it allows high mobility builds a free gap closer that allows them to fully damage and chase with their toolset when they dismount on you.

      All mounts for T6-T8 players is a false sense of security when around other Gucci players. You have neither the armor on the mount to resist attacks without dismounting or the health to survive if you are dismounted.
      Hmm .. on a second thought you are right and i am wrong. it will definitely increase the risk to run around in gucci gear, but it will also for everybody else, which could lead to going into mists only with very very mobile builds.... to be honest its an interesting idea, sorry for denying it on the first look
      the meta would shift if mounts are removed... because people just want to "win".

      Everyone will bring in "swap sets" (remember the original 2v2 HG?) you will have ultra mobile builds with like 1h spear/Bloodletter/Bracer to run around and scout, and then swap to a real "PVP" build (if they feel like giving you the "honor" of actually fighting), otherwise everyone will just stay on ultra-mobile builds trying to rat from off screen when 2 people are in a 1v1 fight. It might make it harder to locate those 1v1 fights tho... so Im not sure if in theory this would work - but again, as I already mentioned in some other thread, due to gathering - mounts will never be removed, so the whole thread is pointless... (unless the drastically re-balance gathering gear and add a lot of carry weight to just the gear for the resources that is)

    • Captainrussia wrote:

      the meta would shift if mounts are removed... because people just want to "win".

      Everyone will bring in "swap sets" (remember the original 2v2 HG?) you will have ultra mobile builds with like 1h spear/Bloodletter/Bracer to run around and scout, and then swap to a real "PVP" build (if they feel like giving you the "honor" of actually fighting), otherwise everyone will just stay on ultra-mobile builds trying to rat from off screen when 2 people are in a 1v1 fight. It might make it harder to locate those 1v1 fights tho... so Im not sure if in theory this would work - but again, as I already mentioned in some other thread, due to gathering - mounts will never be removed, so the whole thread is pointless... (unless the drastically re-balance gathering gear and add a lot of carry weight to just the gear for the resources that is)
      yea you are completely right, so we have to find another way to make it more risky to go out in gucci gear.

    • tailofcat wrote:

      When a player with an IP score above the average IP score of the players in the Mist is included in the mist, a regulation comes in which allows players with an average IP score to form a party.So a little boss hunt party.
      This is what is already happening today...I wear 8.1 to fight the 8.3 and yet I get 5 flat 6 shits teaming up chasing me all the time.

    • if you're not alone, just say: "let team and loot the 8.3" and more of the time, when 2 ppl dismount, the guy disappear...

      now, you'll have to thrust a bit in humanity for that ^^

      mist are like reality, rich take the most part, rats try to steal when they can and honnest ppl are just mobs! :)

    • Another idea might be to use similar IP caps similar that we use in corrupted dungeons, pegged to the level of the zone, only regarding PvP damage. The level could change, depending on the rarity of the mists--common lethal mists are pegged at an IP for a 6.0 set, up to a mythical mists where there are no limitations.

    • if you want fair IP, there's a place for you - CD's. mist population is already at low levels with peaceful miners taking up a large portion, further splitting the bz population is a really ludicrous suggestion. especially when we will certainly see a drop when asia server comes out.

      if you dont want to lose gear go YZ. if you cant afford to lose 6.1 then wear 4.1. ive gotten more than one 8.3 kills while running around with 6.1 1h dagger. the deaths incurred were meaningless in comparison to gains.

      no mounts would not have the effect you think it would, it would only make 8.3's farm lower tiers even worse. right now lower tiers can sit on mounts and coordinate to some degree "/say focus 8.3 curse ill split his loot"

      to sum it up, l2play

    • Revvn wrote:

      if you want fair IP, there's a place for you - CD's. mist population is already at low levels with peaceful miners taking up a large portion, further splitting the bz population is a really ludicrous suggestion. especially when we will certainly see a drop when asia server comes out.

      Revvn wrote:

      if you dont want to lose gear go YZ. if you cant afford to lose 6.1 then wear 4.1. ive gotten more than one 8.3 kills while running around with 6.1 1h dagger. the deaths incurred were meaningless in comparison to gains.
      Nobody said anything here about fair 1v1 fights or being afraid of loosing gear, thats not the concern which this topic is trying to address and fair 1v1 fights is not the point of mists. The concern is the disproportional risk vs reward on the different tiers , the inability to do anything to survive against a high tier mobile build and the higher tier guys not fighting between them self and just hunting lower tier players. All of this is reducing the potential action in the mists in my opinion. if the IPs were closer i would expect more fighting and more people would go there willing to fight instead of rat or just farm lower tier players.



      Revvn wrote:

      to sum it up, l2play
      nothing to do with l2p, because no one is complaining about loosing gear nor loosing a fight, the idea of the discussion is how to improve the action in the mists and balance a bit the risk between the different tiers , because as i mentioned above i personally dont find very trilling gamplay to kill low tier people as 8.3/8.4 without them having a chance to react or escape and one step into that direction could be more closer IPs , which will increase the risk for high tier people and will decrease the risk for lower tier people getting ganked / oneshoted by higher tier people which could lead to more people in the mists and more action and fighting in more risk balanced manner. If you think that there is nothing which could be improved on mists thats fine , enjoy them . I personally love the mists but i think they could be even better if the risk was balanced a bit better and ofcourse thats just my own opinion which i decided to share in the forums for a discussion.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Beyolf ().

    • okay i understand your point. i spent a lot of time running around in 6.1 and i personally didnt think the problem was too bad. w0n only killed me a few times

      but removing 8.3 from those maps means i wouldnt have found two 8.3 people fighting and both at 5% hp, lucky for me. so i think keeping them in is a positive, but thats just my experience

      but i see how it could possibly incentive more fighting and that would be a bonus. i think having more objectives and removing all gathering could have the same effect(double the current resources in yz mists after they're removed from bz. let the gatherers have fun in there and not take up pvp slots in bz mists)

    • Revvn wrote:

      okay i understand your point. i spent a lot of time running around in 6.1 and i personally didnt think the problem was too bad. w0n only killed me a few times

      but removing 8.3 from those maps means i wouldnt have found two 8.3 people fighting and both at 5% hp, lucky for me. so i think keeping them in is a positive, but thats just my experience

      but i see how it could possibly incentive more fighting and that would be a bonus. i think having more objectives and removing all gathering could have the same effect(double the current resources in yz mists after they're removed from bz. let the gatherers have fun in there and not take up pvp slots in bz mists)
      i would like more objectives, but i dont think they would incentivize more fighting or less rating before IP differences being reduced, but i would like to see how it would play out if they decide to add some more. About the gatherers i personally have no opinion about them since i do not gather nor craft i cant really evaluate the risk vs reward for them between mists and BZ zones, so i would leave that to someone with more experience in that field. Killing 8.3 when he is low HP is a high profit definitely , but i personally would prefer to have more action with people with lower IP difference.

      Thanks for being constructive and sharing your view on the topic.

    • Captainrussia wrote:

      Everyone will bring in "swap sets" (remember the original 2v2 HG?) you will have ultra mobile builds with like 1h spear/Bloodletter/Bracer to run around and scout, and then swap to a real "PVP" build (if they feel like giving you the "honor" of actually fighting), otherwise everyone will just stay on ultra-mobile builds trying to rat from off screen when 2 people are in a 1v1 fight. It might make it harder to locate those 1v1 fights tho... so Im not sure if in theory this would work - but again, as I already mentioned in some other thread, due to gathering - mounts will never be removed, so the whole thread is pointless... (unless the drastically re-balance gathering gear and add a lot of carry weight to just the gear for the resources that is)
      people stated that swap would be meta on Mists before the update but nowadays it doesn't happen... rarely u see a guy carrying guardian helm for counter curses or fire for example... there are many rats and gucci guys running around for having time of swap
      Brawler style daggers = cringe
      Assassin style daggers = gigachad

    • Another idea: make the highest-IP player in any mist visible on the zone map, as happens with injured wisps, crystal spiders, etc. Revvn, Beyolf, you both would like more objectives; how about the alpha-gucci player as one? The solo T5-6-7 then can see the 8.3-4 as they approach and have more time to mount up and run, while the 8.0-1 who are looking for a challenge, or the teams of lower-tier players, have a greater ability to catch up with and confront the 8.3-4. Rats will be disproportionately drawn toward that 8.3-4, making them less of a problem for everyone else in the mist (though a bigger one for any 8.0/1 that challenges the 8.3-4).

      Beyolf - "About the gatherers... i cant really evaluate the risk vs reward for them between mists and BZ zones, so i would leave that to someone with more experience in that field." I think I resemble that remark, having played this game for about 8 months overwhelmingly as a solo gatherer. The BZ is huge risk with no significant reward for solo gathering: T8 resources are virtually nonexistent, T8 zones a parade of hundreds of empty nodes. T7s can be had but in minimal quantities, empty nodes outnumbering nodes with anything to gather by 10-to-1 or more. Plenty of T6, but we can get that in the RZ at much lower risk.

      And the longer we spend searching through all of those empty T7-8 nodes for anything to gather, the more likely we'll cross paths with gankers. Sometimes just one or two, often possible to escape or at least make a contest of it; other times a zerg, zero chance of our getting away. Before the Mists, I quit carrying T7 gathering tools, because the cost of replacing them after every ganking was more than negating any income I was earning in the BZ, and for what? I had collected zero T8 resources, flat T7s can be gathered with T6 tools, and T7.1-3 were too rare to justify the big difference in expenses, especially after I earned the ability to craft T6 tools myself.

      In the mists, there's finally some reward for taking the risk. I've been ganked several times in the mists, but accumulated enough T7s that I've started refining them and even crafting a bit, and *finally* gathered some T8s! Darned mists are forcing me to carry T7 tools again, but when I lose them to gankers, at least I have a chance to bring home some adamantite, ghost hemp, and the rest first.

      So, remove the gatherers from the BZ mists? Screw that ignorant idea. We are taking up PvP slots? Sorry/not sorry. Make the BZ halfway worthwhile, maybe we'll take up less mist space.

    • Fabrizziou wrote:

      Captainrussia wrote:

      Everyone will bring in "swap sets" (remember the original 2v2 HG?) you will have ultra mobile builds with like 1h spear/Bloodletter/Bracer to run around and scout, and then swap to a real "PVP" build (if they feel like giving you the "honor" of actually fighting), otherwise everyone will just stay on ultra-mobile builds trying to rat from off screen when 2 people are in a 1v1 fight. It might make it harder to locate those 1v1 fights tho... so Im not sure if in theory this would work - but again, as I already mentioned in some other thread, due to gathering - mounts will never be removed, so the whole thread is pointless... (unless the drastically re-balance gathering gear and add a lot of carry weight to just the gear for the resources that is)
      people stated that swap would be meta on Mists before the update but nowadays it doesn't happen... rarely u see a guy carrying guardian helm for counter curses or fire for example... there are many rats and gucci guys running around for having time of swap
      I don't know... if I can trust that POV... I'd like to see more data...

      Mounts make it so that you don't really need to bring swaps (you still could, if you were so insanely inclined on always winning), because you can just "pick your fights" (not 100% guaranteed - but close enough) and I'd rather not repeat the experience of the OG 2v2 HG, where the swap cancer was so bad, many players quit (myself included) either for extended periods of time... or for good.

      Again - making "IP split" Mists will not happen. Neither will the mounts be removed. So like... no offense to anyone - but pointless thread :(