Ganking Round table

    • Small-scale/Solo PvP
    • Ganking Round table

      Hello everyone.



      I think it's time we talk about ganking in Albion Online.



      I know this is a mechanic many players hate, because it involves losing their assets, being frustrated and so on. Ganking is seen as an unintentional feature in many MMORPG and many think that it shouldn't exist at all. But should it be the case in Albion Online ?

      As you all know, Albion Online is focused on risk/reward gameplay. Winning a lot of silver must involve taking risks. For example, if you want to craft 1 billion worth of 8.3 mats in your Hideout and make 500 million silver of profit, you need to transport it and take the risk to lose it. I have transported myself many times and there is nothing more exciting/stressful of being chased by gankers. The joy of escaping them or the frustration of dying are both feelings i'm grateful to Albion for giving them to me.



      Whether or not you think ganking should be part of the game, there is a reality, ganking is a really bad activity to take part in right now for various reason :



      Gank in redzone :

      - Many players are spending their playtime annoying gankers in redzone (they buy 4.1 set, fight gankers whenever they see one, die, repeat) and gankers have no way to defend agaisnt such players because they lose too much reputation if they keep killing them, and they cannot ignore them because they are VERY insistent.

      - When you're doing session like AngryWolf is doing, but you're very dependant on how many players are going to come and bother you while you can't do much about it.



      Ganking in Avalonian roads :

      - Since Beyond the Veil, there is no more 2 man gates, which is a huge nerf to ganking. Now it is not possible to close a gate so the target can't cross it.

      - Since Beyond the Veil, Blackzone maps aren't connected directly to royal maps. Since the update, I have seen only 3 times out of maybe 30-40 times a connection between inner circle and royal. The consequence is that we can't access the ava roads easily to gank them, and we need to find first a road through the right balckzone portal, then go into the road. Each session starts 1 hours after the road is found, and it is VERY annoying for us gankers.

      - Ganking in ava roads has always been very hard, it is easy for a team to secure an ava road, thus making it impossible to gank. Most of the transporters are using scouts to see if there is gankers in the road, usuallly a scout 1 screen ahead of the transporter.



      Black zone Ganking :

      - Too many big groups are roaming the backzone, making ganking in a little group almost impossible. Now you need to be a whole 20 man party to be able to do something and that is pretty much ridiculous.

      (It's not my main content at all please share your opinion on this in a reply to this post)



      Ganking weapons :

      - Claw was nerfed to the ground (no experienced gankers take a claw in his party unless we're 8 or more), morningstar is completely useless for gankers now, bear paws is very strong and used in any composition, forge hammers are good only in red/balck zones, any mobility weapon + graveguard is also good but not much in ava roads because of boosts. Before we had tools to deal with battlemounts, now it is almost impossible if the player think even a little. And we absolutely can't afford taking balista for regular battlemounts because it would be too risky in the red zone.

      General nerfs :
      - mount up time on greywolf nerf made escaping in redzone much harder
      - Invisibility shrines, poison nerf, mount HP buff,...


      Before the nerfs of morninstar and claws, ganking was skilled and about communication

      Now we end up missing a lot of targets because it is almost impossible sometimes. The new jacket makes a transport invicible on a short distance, longer with miner boots. The buff to gigantism potion is very strong in ava raods because it's often enough to reach a gate and zone with being cced.
      Overall, the feeling we have is that players get more and more ways to escape gankers, but on the other hand, gankers don't have more tools to catch transports, in fact, as i said about claws and morningstar, they have way less tools.

      So us gankers want to know if SBI has something against ganking, and if not, we want to work with you guys to create new tools for us gankers, that will be fair for everyone and not stupid like morningstar was (yes i agree it was op, but the nerf was too much).

      Please, if any mods from SBI come across this, don't ignore us, organize a round table for ganking with the big names and let's work togetgher to make ganking fair for everyone, transporters and gankers.


      Anyway, as i want this post to be as helpful as possible, here is a few solutions I came up with :

      1. Remove passive on grizzly and buff its movement speed. Right now the speed is the biggest issue when a little group is ganking a grizzly, sometimes we even stop catching them because it is too complicated. Especially in avalonian roads, with the boosts it's almost impossible to catch a grizzly whith less then 5/6 people.
      2. Remove reputation loss for killing a blue player that attacked you first. This would help a lot fighting the 4.1 sets that players use to bother gankers and kill them sometimes.
      3. Add a buff in avalonian roads that makes battlemounts vulnerable to graveguard and fear. It is way too hard right now to catch a battlemount in an avalonian road. Unless the player is VERY bad at taking decision under stress, there is no way a battlemount dies, even to balistas. This is not faire and make Hideout crafters way to safe in avalonian roads.

      These suggestions are from my own experience to please add yours in the reply of this post !

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Vaelyyn ().

    • siskin03 wrote:

      1 week ago i was ganking with 6 people on blackzones and we made like 17 mil in 3 hours so i dont think its not posible or hard
      How often do you gank ? once a week ? once a month ?

      The problems i'm talking about are only visible when ganking is your main content. And yes once i made 50m in 5 mins, but the next session is made 2m in 3 hours. Gank is also luck based, that's how it is.
    • Hey,
      I totally agree with this post. Albion Online is a very fun game and I love the content on it. I spend most of my time ganking and i love it, but we really do feel neglected sometimes with all the nerfs. It would be great to be taken into consideration the ganking community so make some adjustement to make the game more fair to everyone.
    • imo, ganking is just as legit and important as small scale and zvz in this full loot pvp game. It is part of the economy, it is THE SOLE RISK FACTOR that affects the price and the market. It is because of us gankers, the value of the high-risk resources remains. albion being the full loot mmo, is not a utopian world with all the sunshine and rainbows. each world needs it's dark side, just like how we used drug money to save our butt irl in 2008. our voice needs to be heard, the nerfs are becoming more and more ridiculous with each and every patch.
    • Hello everyone, me as a long time player in the game and a person passionate about ganking, I have been very stressed with the new tools that the game has been adding to make transports come out alive and what they have been taking away from ganks, something that was supposed to being balanced comes with each update bordering on the impossible for our side.
      basically every major update that the game has been releasing, we have to recreate goals of how ganking or if we didn't find the ganks they would already be extinct, in addition to the nerfs/burfs, there are also:
      * Player cannot take CM when dismounted
      * forge hammers do not stack slow (this only after being added to the gank)
      * Decreased E distance from bearpaws
      more and more the game becomes smoother for the transporters and more difficult for us.
    • There have been many options for SBI to fix ganking in royals they just dont want to do it.

      >Give glorious players a daily decay of reputation(-100 rep a day) til they are back to the previous stage(noble or whatever).
      >Remove or reduce the Rep loss for players with less them a 1k ip(800-750)
      >Make it so glorious isn't 10k rep anymore, make it 20k-30k or even 50k
      >Increase the limit for bad rep, from -20k to -25k(-30k)
      >Remove the defense bonus from glorious players or give the nefarious players( bad rep) damage bonus

      this is just a few topics of the top of my head
    • Hey everyone!

      In general, I underwrite and agree with all statements posted by Vaelyyn.

      First of all, we all know that a certain player making 10M in half an hour doesn't mean that a content is viable.

      In fact, and everyone who ganks knows, it is IMPOSSIBLE to do this content anymore for several reasons. Whether they are nerfs in gank weapons, buffs that benefit the carriers, or simply being ruined by a content (that is unbalanced and without counter play) that is policing red zones.

      This is the second point I wanted to touch on: policing in the red zone.
      Policing has always existed in red zones and I thought it was a legitimate content since it is not viable to have 100 players in a red zone and 50 are hard-flagged. However, it is not essential to the game or its economy the way it is nowadays.
      Remembering, the economic mechanics of albion and what makes the economy run is the items break when a player dies. This implies that, to have a healthy economy, players have to die and by players I mean transporters since they are the ones who make the economy. But this does not happen since you have 20 players ruining the content of the hard-flagged players. And what can these hard-flagged players do?

      Well... let's look at the third point I wanted to make:
      We all know that the game has its own Reds balancing mechanics. I am talking about reputation.
      So we assume that the hard-flagged players already have this limitation to prevent them from ganking 24/7 and making millions as a result. It is a tradeoff: lose reputation, gain silver (very fair tradeoff)
      However, the amount of policing is just one way to decimate the content. Let's see: I'm ganking, losing 1000 reputation per kill, and a party of players (all of them with 4.1 gear) show up to disrupt the content. What options do I have?
      1. I kill all players and lose all reputation and no silver in return.
      2. I change map and there will be 10 minutes of rest from that police.
      3. I try to gank with the police nearby and lose gear after gear.
      4. I let frustration occupy me and give up on the content.
      Exactly, given the existence of the above options, I would say that 90% of players will fall into option 4.

      As measures to counteract this, I underwrite all the measures posted by Vaelyyn.

      In conclusion, and not to be any longer, in my opinion I think there are ways for SBI not to ruin a content and still leave the game noob-friendly and fair for everyone.

      Thank you very much for your attention.
    • OP forgot to mention the ability to port back now, too (in addition to all the gank nerfs). The only [reliable] way to gank someone now (without having dozens of people on the map) is to invis heading to resource nodes to gank potential gatherers there.

      I have proposed for years on the RT that an NPC should be added that buys/sells reputation. Carebears could make silver from selling their rep (reducing their buff vs gankers), and Dreaded gankers could buy more rep to continue ganking - this would also serve as a silver sink (tax), as well as a workaround for gankers having to kill 4.1 shitters in the royals.
      Fusionbomb - GM of Morbidly_Obese

      T8 Gatherer
      T7 Fishing
      700 Holy Spec
    • Vaelyyn wrote:

      Before the nerfs of morninstar and claws, ganking was skilled and about communication
      I agree with most but calling CC lock "skilled" is copium.
      not being able to use any skill or move for 10sec straight was bad for the game.

      you did not mention that most gankers play in flat 4-6 expecting effects as if playing in 8.3, to this naked scouts at every exit..
      SBI by these nerfs makes it clear that it is time to upgrade from flat 4-6 to 8.0/1..

      rep system is outdated.. need some fix for sure..
    • Quagga wrote:

      Vaelyyn wrote:

      Before the nerfs of morninstar and claws, ganking was skilled and about communication
      I agree with most but calling CC lock "skilled" is copium.not being able to use any skill or move for 10sec straight was bad for the game.

      you did not mention that most gankers play in flat 4-6 expecting effects as if playing in 8.3, to this naked scouts at every exit..
      SBI by these nerfs makes it clear that it is time to upgrade from flat 4-6 to 8.0/1..

      rep system is outdated.. need some fix for sure..
      Ok so this is the only thing i'll change in the post, I agree that cc lock was too strong.

      My point is not to give gankers a tool like claws or morningstar. And the only reason we go on T6 gear to kill 8.3 players is because we die a lot. It happens on a regular basis do die 10 times in a 4 hour session. So if I go in T8, it will not be worth at all. Taht's why we go in T6/T7. And for some build, ip doesn't matter so yeah, we go in T5/T6 but people do the same in zvz.
      A solution to the problem you're talking about is too increase the ip gap between tier, but do we really want to do that ?

      My point is that very little changes needs to be made to make things fair :
      1. making entering mists longer, now we need to dismount a whole 1.5 second before the guy dismount and click on this mist. This is ridiculous.
      2. Every ava roads in redzone is linked to a safe zone, so anyone can just hop in one and be safe, with the boosts, there is no way to catch him if it is a fast mount. And usually charges are taken so only 2-3 can enter the road so it's straight up impossible to catch slow mounts
      3. Wolf mounting speed was a good tool to escape for gankers
      4. Reputation system, yeh
    • Biggest issues for me are:
      - rep system (need a whole rework because right now flagging as red feels like a pure punishment, not enjoyable whatsoever);
      - mounts (for example t3 ox that's price is ~15k is almost not dismountable solo) - that's for another topic though as there is many more mounts that need to be addressed;
      - i disliked mounting speed being 2s, in open world environment I had examples that people played horribly, missed all their skills and just mounted up in my face and reset for free. But I also think that fast mounts - greywolfs/direwolfs etc. should have slightly faster time to gallop. Also time after dismount to get your skills - I wonder if reducing it wouldn't be too broken overall but also improve gameplay for gankers;
      - entering mists time is too low;
      - they messed up roads in so many ways I don't even wanna talk about it;
    • Foxyy_ wrote:

      - they messed up roads in so many ways I don't even wanna talk about it;
      Oh man you can say that again. Roads used to be a great place for solos and small guilds and were just so alive with activity. The way they take great ideas and content and then slowly ruin them over time baffles me. It's almost like they are intentionally sabotaging their own game.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Gnomead ().

    • Ganking is the best way to make money in solo pvp and with its update to promote solo play, SBI has made solo ganking impossible!SBI don't think only of your farmers, crafters and followers of the small scale and ZVZ!!!!

      The post was edited 1 time, last by DarkLyht ().

    • DarkLyht wrote:

      Ganking is the best way to make money in solo pvp and with its update to promote solo play, SBI has made solo ganking impossible!SBI don't think only of your farmers, crafters and followers of the small scale and ZVZ!!!!
      The thing is that it's not the best way to make money as a solo player. In pvp, corrupted or mists are much much much better, and outside of PvP, any activity like crafting, refining, etc is much much much better as well.

      And it's not an issue to be honest, We're not asking for a giga buff of ganking ahah
    • Hi,
      First, i'm totally agree with all the replies of my gankers colleagues.
      I will not repeat all the things said before, but i would talk about something appear with the last patches.

      At the moment, i could notice than all of the maps around caerleon are linked to yellow or blue zones, and very often they are directly linked ( no other roads to cross inside the road).
      So, since these last patches, we can notice than a lot of Black Market transports go to caerleon only from roads, and not from the red zones.
      By the way, all these roads are secured by a lot of Small Scales groups which defend all the transporters, from others guilds too.

      I would test this last night, i picked randomly 2 maps next to caerleon - Birken Fell and Deadvein Gully - and these two roads were linked directly to Blue Zones and Yellow Zones
      It makes no senses to permit to transporters to do their Black Market transport very safe like this...

      Sorry for my bad English,
      I'll hope SBI will consider the gankers, i remember you all than Gank permit to regulate the economy of the game ...
    • Fixing ganking seems to be the exact opposite of what SBI wants to do. For solo and small gank groups mobility is key. But with CDs and Mists the amount of mobility has been drastically reduced. At the same time mount health has been increased while poisons and CC being nerfed.

      What I would like to see:
      Portal invisibility/immunity being shorter
      Recall/Teleport back being limited to within 3 zones and/or value (gear + inv) < x to teleport back. (I'd like it removed but nerfed would be nice)
      Lower mount health or Buff to ganking weapons vs mounts
      Buff poison duration and/or damage
      Lowered combat dismount timer and Increase time to channel into the Mists
      No more city portal to the Mists (have to find wisps in the open world)
      Buff open world objectives
      Nerf all instanced content
      SBI to stop nerfing items because of instanced content and revert changes (Greywolf mount time, Snare Charge (Maces) range, Oathkeeper life/dam., All knockbacks, ect.)
      Don't go away mad, just go away...
    • Hi

      I know that there is a lot of people that protest saying that ganking is the worse content for the game, but all of this need to be clear that ganking is part of what the game is and should not be removed since this is a game is risk to win,
      also the trailer "Everybody Matters" shows that how dangerous is transports if you go on your own, since we saw the nerfs that are comming through the updates seems like SBI is trying to erase the comunity of gankers without saying anything that just the updates that keep reworking or changing the actual meta of ganking drastically and this obvious not fun beside we also need to take care of the buffs for the transporters like Invisibility shrines, poison nerf, mount HP buff,.. nothing good for our comunity to be honest just nerfs, i just hope that SBI clear his mind with this forum to make this type of content more enjoyable beside the people that cry for gankers its unfair but this game dominates the audacious one not the one that crys to get rich, the game promised gankers, not they prosperity but all games need to be fair enough to be enjoyable

      The post was edited 2 times, last by R3inH4rdT ().