Feedback: Loot distribution and average mist player experience.

    • Feedback: Loot distribution and average mist player experience.

      Summary of what I'm about to write: It's horrible.

      I created a brand new characters and immediately went into the BZ mists. With low IP and inferior gear to most players Mists yeilds LITERALLY 0 loot. If you cannot bully people off of the points then you simply loot actually nothing.

      This is horrible and in my opinion unaccetable to the design of AO. AO has always been a game where if you risk and put yourself out there there are returns to get. The mists and general loot amount of the entire game has been reduced drastically lately.

      I don't mind at all SBI raising Premium & Gold price. Inflation is a thing and that is understandable. But demolishing the games risk/reward balance and removing the fun aspect of finding loot and opening chests in what most suspect is an attempt to get people to swipe for gold is horrible and will wind up destroying this game if that is the road it is going down.

      We removed one of the best ways solos could generate loot, Solo Green Ava chests. We replaced it with absolutely nothing. CD loot has been reduced to absolute shit (unless you are ratting oddly enough). The best way I can think to generate PvE loot now as a solo player is Solo dungeons. WHICH IS HORRENDOUS. It's boring very non rewarding content.

      I think people need to start speaking up about the loot reduction we have all been seeing for the average player. I have run like 7 "Zero to Hero" Characters at this point. Each one is getting harder than the last. This run takes the cake for shitty. I go out and kill mobs and run from 1500 IP solo builds for hours and come back with sub 100k loot. The mobs are dropping SHIT. The pve chests are non existent. The rare avalonian Drones are SHIT. It's not acceptable. It's not a fun experience.

      I mean why even purchase premium anymore? We are getting a 50% bonus to what? There's legit NO loot. If a player spends 15$ a month to play an MMO, they should be greeted with a well balanced experience and exactly how the game is meant to feel. The current loot distribution is an attrocity.

      To be clear, I am not saying that loot in the mists is all garbage. If you are on a high IP character and are good at PvP, then you can make a ton. I do it on my main. But without that you are making actual 0. This type of game design is akin to a game like MO2 where the hardcore are the only ones rewarded and we know how those games go.

      SBI DO NOT CHANGE THE FUNDAMENTALS OF ALBION ONLINE. Players need a loop of reward and after experiencing the new content through to eyes of someone wearing 1100-1200 Ip, there is legitamately 0 reward.

    • This summarized how i feel about albion lately

      For the first time ever albion felt to me like some P2W korean mobile MMO where some character with 29573928579 item power shows up and 1 shot everybody in the city

      thats how mist felt to me ,if u arent in 8.3 you almost dont get to play the game

    • Yeah this is my experience too.

      I would describe myself as an inexperienced PvP player in Albion, but very keen to learn. I burnt through so much silver getting killed inn the mists and now I need to stop PvP to try and rebuild my finances.

      It just feels like its super hard to build silver in this game now which limits my ability to learn PvP.

    • IDD with the post as a whole, but gonna comment on this one:

      Nazori wrote:

      We removed one of the best ways solos could generate loot, Solo Green Ava chests. We replaced it with absolutely nothing.
      Got 2 mil (and a ton of fame) from doing ava chests solo for an hour this morning. Could be better (bad luck with chests), but i was primarily going for fame to finish off my druid staffs
      It's not newbie friendly, sure, but yellow bosses are all soloable, including tier 8.
      Was it really better before? I vivdly remember average green ava chests dropping 3 stones and 5 silver bags.

      And in mists - why people were expecting big loot drops from mists is beyond me. Those were intended to emulate OW, and mobs there a basically the same OW mobs (except heretics, that don't exist in OW), and OW mobs generate almost no loot. If you had good drops on test server, you should always remember that test server always has better loot drops, because of low playerbase and low BM consumption rate.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Schmellow ().

    • Very well put, it's insane how much posts I see about this topic and SBI seems to ignore all of it. I really don't understand, up to this point I really thought it's a great company working on a good player experience and it seems since they sold out, it's all going downhill.

      Time to start a Private Server boys XD
      No.

    • Nazori wrote:

      Summary of what I'm about to write: It's horrible.<br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);"><br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);">I created a brand new characters and immediately went into the BZ mists. With low IP and inferior gear to most players Mists yeilds LITERALLY 0 loot. If you cannot bully people off of the points then you simply loot actually nothing.<br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);"><br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);">This is horrible and in my opinion unaccetable to the design of AO. AO has always been a game where if you risk and put yourself out there there are returns to get. The mists and general loot amount of the entire game has been reduced drastically lately.<br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);"><br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);">I don't mind at all SBI raising Premium & Gold price. Inflation is a thing and that is understandable. But demolishing the games risk/reward balance and removing the fun aspect of finding loot and opening chests in what most suspect is an attempt to get people to swipe for gold is horrible and will wind up destroying this game if that is the road it is going down.<br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);"><br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);">We removed one of the best ways solos could generate loot, Solo Green Ava chests. We replaced it with absolutely nothing. CD loot has been reduced to absolute shit (unless you are ratting oddly enough). The best way I can think to generate PvE loot now as a solo player is Solo dungeons. WHICH IS HORRENDOUS. It's boring very non rewarding content.<br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);"><br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);">I think people need to start speaking up about the loot reduction we have all been seeing for the average player. I have run like 7 "Zero to Hero" Characters at this point. Each one is getting harder than the last. This run takes the cake for shitty. I go out and kill mobs and run from 1500 IP solo builds for hours and come back with sub 100k loot. The mobs are dropping SHIT. The pve chests are non existent. The rare avalonian Drones are SHIT. It's not acceptable. It's not a fun experience.<br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);"><br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);">I mean why even purchase premium anymore? We are getting a 50% bonus to what? There's legit NO loot. If a player spends 15$ a month to play an MMO, they should be greeted with a well balanced experience and exactly how the game is meant to feel. The current loot distribution is an attrocity.<br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);"><br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);">To be clear, I am not saying that loot in the mists is all garbage. If you are on a high IP character and are good at PvP, then you can make a ton. I do it on my main. But without that you are making actual 0. This type of game design is akin to a game like MO2 where the hardcore are the only ones rewarded and we know how those games go.<br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);"><br style="background-color: rgb(247, 239, 208);">SBI DO NOT CHANGE THE FUNDAMENTALS OF ALBION ONLINE. Players need a loop of reward and after experiencing the new content through to eyes of someone wearing 1100-1200 Ip, there is legitamately 0 reward.
      i agree i hope SBI do something about it cuz game is getting way too hard to play without paying for new players to start making donation they should enjoy the game and donations will come eventually that`s not the way to make everything less rewarding .... Solo dungeons are a waste o f time my friend who started to play with me asking me about how to make silver and i dont even know what to say cuz everything is so non rewarding for new players we go to black zones tier 8 map solo dungeon we get 30k silver in loot like what t he hell is this

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Imp94 ().

    • If i am in 8.3 i get the objective of mists, because most other 8.3 don't want to fight 4.4 k life oathkeeper that can mount in the middle of the fight with shield.

      8.3 players mostly get horny if they can 3 shot 6.0 players. That exactly pay 2 win.

      But most don't want to risk fight another 8.3 if they can choose other 6.0 targets.

      As i said it - game needs 2 things

      1) hard IP cap on common mists 1100/1200
      2) bonus for 1500 IP + if they enter a mist portal they they get rarity + 1. So they never end with 1500 IP in the IP cap. See it as cheapest way of matchmaking...

    • Nazori wrote:

      Summary of what I'm about to write: It's horrible.

      I created a brand new characters and immediately went into the BZ mists. With low IP and inferior gear to most players Mists yeilds LITERALLY 0 loot. If you cannot bully people off of the points then you simply loot actually nothing.

      This is horrible and in my opinion unaccetable to the design of AO. AO has always been a game where if you risk and put yourself out there there are returns to get. The mists and general loot amount of the entire game has been reduced drastically lately.

      I don't mind at all SBI raising Premium & Gold price. Inflation is a thing and that is understandable. But demolishing the games risk/reward balance and removing the fun aspect of finding loot and opening chests in what most suspect is an attempt to get people to swipe for gold is horrible and will wind up destroying this game if that is the road it is going down.

      We removed one of the best ways solos could generate loot, Solo Green Ava chests. We replaced it with absolutely nothing. CD loot has been reduced to absolute shit (unless you are ratting oddly enough). The best way I can think to generate PvE loot now as a solo player is Solo dungeons. WHICH IS HORRENDOUS. It's boring very non rewarding content.

      I think people need to start speaking up about the loot reduction we have all been seeing for the average player. I have run like 7 "Zero to Hero" Characters at this point. Each one is getting harder than the last. This run takes the cake for shitty. I go out and kill mobs and run from 1500 IP solo builds for hours and come back with sub 100k loot. The mobs are dropping SHIT. The pve chests are non existent. The rare avalonian Drones are SHIT. It's not acceptable. It's not a fun experience.

      I mean why even purchase premium anymore? We are getting a 50% bonus to what? There's legit NO loot. If a player spends 15$ a month to play an MMO, they should be greeted with a well balanced experience and exactly how the game is meant to feel. The current loot distribution is an attrocity.

      To be clear, I am not saying that loot in the mists is all garbage. If you are on a high IP character and are good at PvP, then you can make a ton. I do it on my main. But without that you are making actual 0. This type of game design is akin to a game like MO2 where the hardcore are the only ones rewarded and we know how those games go.

      SBI DO NOT CHANGE THE FUNDAMENTALS OF ALBION ONLINE. Players need a loop of reward and after experiencing the new content through to eyes of someone wearing 1100-1200 Ip, there is legitamately 0 reward.
      Totaly agree as a 4 year old vet player i have also witnesed the steady decline of loot in every aspect of the game. as a mainly solo player it makes me feel useless and when you have got to make money to actualy play the game its a joke. SRD = no pvp now they close over and no loot, CD i got a gold chest in t8 slayer with 40k in mone bags and some shity trinkets lol i alt f4 and went on another game. Mists 8.3 high ip billianaires rule in there so dont do them now. bz, yz not for loot absolutely not. BZ yeh u can find the odd decent loot from chests or mobs but good luck keeping it or competing for it in BZ . its prety obvious there going in a P2W direction.

    • Yeah Mists are surprisingly less newbie friendly than CDs. Doing Hunter CDs -> Stalker CDs would be best as it lets new players learn how to fight in a controlled environment. In mists new players can’t gauge which fights to take, or just how dangerous getting 3rd partied is. They are unlikely to get any objectives. Gathering is considerably worse than even red zones. Fame is pretty mediocre as you will want to keep your horse nearby for the eventual gank attempts.

      that being said I am enjoying mists overall

    • Chest loot does continue to degrade every update in all content. I am not sure about this inflation they speak of since most players seem to struggle to make enough silver to partake in PvP from what I hear. Even the demon loot in Slayer CDs from player kills is straight garbo most of the time. If the BM is not working they should just beef up silver bags especially in purple/yellow chests etc.

    • I understand the frustration, but new players with low IP simplely shouldn't be earning a lot of loot.

      Of course, they should be earning some.

      Given the current Mist rewards are all PvP centered (all marked on map), one way to make it playable for new players is to add IP cap. But I think it's against the idea of open world and the basic design of gear tiers in the game.

      Another way is to add PvE chest that is unmarked on the map, which any player can take on without having to fight other players.

      Also, since loot is limited in this game, I think rewards for new player should be focused more on fame, less on loot.
      Majority of the loot pool should be distributed across end-game PvP centered activities.

    • Don't worry about new players.

      Veterans will be more affected.
      You will get dry content and less&less loot from PvP.
      Not sustainable to wear Gucci gear.
      It will force you to downgrade.
      More avoidance/ratty style.

      There is only one man who can save us.
      And make the game fun again.
      Chaotic mode needs to be activated:
      - skills nerfs every week or at least every 2 weeks

    • I agree with you @Nazori, the only way I find to get money is craft but its soooo boring, take thing's in one city, go to anoter, craft, take all to carleon w8 for BM buys...
      Pvp don't reward much, Pve for solo are OW, mists still a joke. Ava still a joke.

      Also ty for posting on AO Forum, maybe SBI take a look at the Content Creators, because it's been more than a week that all we see on the forums are players scoring exactly what you put, but without any response...

      Thats another thing we can put, before the update we where all striked by the media, ads, and hype, after this mess we don't saw SBI put his face out to tell us what are they doing or even tha say they have an eye in the comunity... Disappointing this kind of behaviour from SBI....

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Abstinator ().

    • I understand the frustration, but two points... you need to be smart about things. You went straight into a BZ hot zone and miraculously got nothing against guys and gals who are versed in the game. Not really a surprise.

      Secondly, I have thought for a while that the treasure drops from Mobs should be better in a loot table for a while. This would spread the wealth a little for those that cannot compete at choke points like chests, etc, and also make grinding the fame a little more meaningful. Treasure chests in dungeons should be made more impactful, that can be by either more treasure or more specific KINDS of treasure, like avalonian artifact drops.
      50%-1sec SLOW to 'BURNING FIELD' on hit.

    • Hits the nail on the head perfectly. Keep in mind, that players like Nazori have a vast knowledge of the game and are the LEAST affected by this. Imagine putting a new player in the same situation, the effect is multiplied a hundred folds. Sub 100k loot? They're going to get sub 10k loot.

      New players that barely reach 1000 IP in t6 going against players with thousands if not TENS of thousand kills worth of experience and an average IP of 1450+ are forced against each others in an interaction that satisfies neither side. Albion has always been a game of progressive steps, but lately the game has simply removed the first two dozen steps and told the new players to fuck off and deal with it

      - Mist came out and it's the equivalent of SBI telling the playerbase that they have no idea how to weave solo and duo gameplay meaningfully into the actual game and pretty much also told them to fuck off in their poorly implemented instanced zone.

      - Solo dungeons gutted, only t8 solos are worth anything and the average cashout for a decent session is non-existent. Best method is to keep going over and over again until you get your orange chest once every 150 or so runs. Mindnumbingly boring.

      - Solo Ava chests, which were a decent loot lottery are dead.

      - Ratting CDs is the same M.O as solo dungeons.

      - Safe introductory content like Hellgates are worthless. Hellgates are one of THE most important form of content in the game for a new player, as it teaches the basics of coordination and team gameplay exceptionally well. Average cashout from a 100% win rate 5s session of around 3hrs? Just did one two days ago, it was 260k.

      - Won't even bother with Crystal Arenas. I don't think SBI even remember it exists.

      - Static dungeons. More new player friendly content forgotten by SBI.

      At this point, between the price increases and latest updates, I think SBI has lost touch with the game and it's community entirely. They either have no idea of what they're doing or they know exactly and don't give a shit, I don't know which is worse but I do know that both are extremely unhealthy for the game and it shows. The new player experience is objectively atrocious and the same can be said for "mid tier" players, aka the most important demographics of any MMO.

    • It's not about black market not being able to supply the pop. All it takes is several whales.

      You're underestimating how much of the recent "loot being worse" is tied to .4 being out, the random generator picking those items for possibilities to drop not dropping anything and just putting that money into the donation jar (aka adding to the prices). An average player gets his .3 item drops from pve here and there, but now it has transformed into worse drops overall for a tiny chance for getting that .4 once a week? month? Not that big of an excitement to tolerate overall loot decrease.

      Should .4 be drop disabled from chests because of that? Probably not. I'd rather say introducing .4 was a mistake (Having 9.x and 10.x wouldn't screw the game loot tables as much), esp since it ended up being nothing but a zerg point of interest which isn't something the game struggles with.

      Also agree on ava roads rework. Mists were added but ava roads were removed from the pool of possible locations for solo players (still okay to run but then it be gathering and nothing else, loot from the bosses you will be able to solo sucks). It's a shame they are leaning towards transforming everything into instanced content really. BZs try to fit everyone in (sure blobs feel better), why couldn't roads still have solo activities (with there still being only blue/yellow portals and groups feeling better)? Would anybody really be hurt from 610% solo dungeons not being removed and solo players having ways to do things outside of gathering, for example?

      And that's only speaking about the recent loot nerf. We've had several ones recently, the most notorious one being one after journey back implemented. As less loot was destroyed in the outlands, less loot would have to be given away (so players basically would have to work more for the same amount of loot as you can't have more networth "per player" on average anyway, that's how albion economy works. A "good farmer" is now farming more using journey back if he wants to keep up being better than average since an "average player" is now losing less loot, therefore is more efficient even though it's not about him being efficient, it's about the game handholding). -- Now, this one is easier to resolve. Journey back cost should be increased by at least 2x, more is better. It shouldn't be used as a mean to travel back every time you're farming, it does no good to anybody, even the farmers themselves (as they're now only considered "efficient" if farming 24/7 while using this ability). It should of course still be worth it to recall if somebody found an expensive artifact, that's what this function was implemented for in the first place I believe: to remove all the frustration moments from new players when those are ganked carrying something that costs as much as their entire networth.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Fat8.3node ().

    • first of all, thank you SBI for listening our concerns and giving us 7 men portals back. I really do appreciate it, hence it's encouraging me to address a couple more problems that I and almost everyone I know experiences about the game lately.

      with the issues Nazori adressed: I couldn't agree more. been playing the game actively for the last 3 years, have a decent economy with active 6+ months premium but this is the experience I also have. SBI please don't change the fundementals of the game.

      prices drastically changed, even "affordable flat 6" builds are not cheap anymore, which would be acceptable with inflation in different terms but not this. there is literally no content left for solo players to risk your gear. since the mists release the game is definitely started feeling like p2w. busted builds with an insane IP difference is literally everywhere. one 1700 IP build dominance all the map and takes all the objectives. in my humble experience these highest IP players are not mostly willing to fight with each other as well. before the mists I personally used to solo roam around 1400 IP, which would let me take most of the fights/do different PVE objectives with the mentality "high risk high reward". now all I get is 1700+ IP builds I'll lose for nothing.

      crystal spiders in the mists: horrible experience. mounted players all around the spider unwilling/unable to fight waiting like vultures around one person dominating the whole map. if by any chance you can take a 1v1 fight, vultures waiting to finish you up and run away. dismount timer can be easily solved with dismounting on the target's kite way.

      my biggest disappointment is there is no room for skillful gameplay anymore. 90% of the playerbase tend to take either busted builds and wipe anyone until it gets nerfed, or rat for the loot in the mists. game itself literally encouraging people to play in this style. unless you are a veteran player used to taking 1vx fights, mists don't offer anything else worths to risk your gear.

      I can't even imagine the newbie experience in this game anymore. I can definitely say this game would be a no go for me if I would be starting just now.

      I can understand solo dungeon loot worths shit, it's all safe content.

      now we took all the solo content from the roads. which had its issues back in then, again about no room for skillful gameplay with groups on solo chests/in solo dungeons hunting for solo players. but they were easily fixable and the loot actually worth risking your gear.

      soloing avalonian chests with viable builds is not an option in this case because what I'm seeing in the intentions of this update is making the roads only small-scale content and giving mists to solo players, which went horribly wrong. and even if you are willing to do that, all we see is already cleared bosses with tons of mobs around. I understand why solo players choose to do this even if it's group content, but this means there is also nothing else to do for groups around there. this high activity in the game is basically addressing all the issues we have in the game by itself and affecting everyone except large scale players.

      implementing upgraded mobs, spiders, chests and gathering nodes to roads is an amazing feature allowing for small scale players get the fair might/fame and I'm thankful for that. feels totally balanced.

      as a summary, I think as a casual player I understand the intentions of this update but it's clearly not working and taking away all the enjoyment a large percentage of playerbase used to have. at least maybe give up from this strict seperation and give us the old roads content with some fixes on it. mists are not for everyone.

      this was the game which gave me by far the most fun I had back in the days. now I can't see any reason to log in and honestly feeling so drained and close to unsintall even more every single day that I try to find myself a room in this mess.

      I honestly want to enjoy this game so much because I really love it. I love and miss all the past experiences I had before all this mess and desperately hoping for it to come back. again, thank you SBI for giving us a room to share our concerns and listening our problems. wishing you the best.
      ~pezzcat

      The post was edited 5 times, last by jinaaa ().

    • Everything really everything, I can fully subscribe.

      All the things that were fun have been taken from us, be it that the solo dungeons are closed or the loot in the chests was always worse.

      Most of those who love and appreciate the game, play the game certainly only because they have built something and do not want to give it up.

      But I as a guild leader must also always fight with it when new players start and ask me how I actually make silver in the game.

      And I always tell the people then, solo dungeon market or farm.
      But exactly these things have been destroyed. Whether it is the black market whether it is the boxes in the solo dungeon whether it is the farming.

      Small guilds have almost no claim to .4 farming notes. Since large guilds/alliances come with then minimum a t2 or t4 blob.
      The small notes are used by gankers.

      And at the very end you get into the crap where you are always the first to be chased as a farmer. If you are not careful you can quickly get rid of your equipment which as a farmer costs 2mio ( meanwhile ).

      And that's sad, in addition I have built at the beginning of my playing time a small island empire, which played me daily 8mio one, now only every 3 days maybe 4mio.

      I must say everything that sbi does has been said here genuinely.

      Please sbi make the step and go back to the beginning.
      You always say in your devtalk videos you want to make ao one of the best sandbox mmorpg.

      I can only tell you one thing " back to the roots ".