Bloodletter (NDA BtV patch 1)

    • Combat Balance
    • Bloodletter (NDA BtV patch 1)

      Hello,

      Retroman wrote:

      Daggers


      Lunging Stabs (Bloodletter)


      Hitting a player below 40% Health doesn't increase the cooldown rate anymore.

      Instead hitting a player below 40% now reduces the ability cooldown by 40%. (other slot cooldowns are not affected anymore)
      Why? What is the reason behind this change? Why do you get rid of an interesting part of the weapon instead of dealing with actual problem?

      My idea of balancing out bloodletter:

      Lunging stabs ability should be slower (something like daybreaker "breakthrough" speed, but with lower or no cast time at the beginning of stab, visible animation would also be appreciated)
      • Lunging stabs (Bloodletter)
        • slower dash speed (don't know exact numbers)
        • cast time instant -> 0.2s (uninterruptible, optional)
        • adding a visible stab animation (optional)
      Reason for these changes:
      - ability would require to be timed well;
      - puts it in line with the only other execute weapon - infernal scythe;
      - isn't nerfed directly, still 40% execute but allows for counterplay;

      This is important change on one of the most used weapons in the game right now. Please do it responsibly and take care of actual problem. I generally dislike 40% execute abilities and would like both to be nerfed to 30%, but if it has to stay in the game, please at least add counterplay to it.

      Cheers

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Foxyy_ ().

    • Bloodletter needs some changes for sure. But I 100% agree that this NDA proposal is pointless for BL.
      Cast time might be decent. Or make the E damage be stack dependents :
      current damage x1.0 on 3 stacks,
      x0.8 on 2 stacks,
      x0.6 on 1 stack
      x0.4 without stacks.

      Or even a cast time stack dependent :
      0s with 3 stacks (instant as right now)
      0.2 with 2 stacks
      0.3 with 1 stacks
      0.4 without stacks

      (you'll get best numbers than these, but you got the idea)

      So keep the execute, keep the damage, but please allow some counterplay or some mechanics

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Laem ().

    • Foxyy_ wrote:

      Hello,

      Retroman wrote:

      Daggers


      Lunging Stabs (Bloodletter)


      Hitting a player below 40% Health doesn't increase the cooldown rate anymore.

      Instead hitting a player below 40% now reduces the ability cooldown by 40%. (other slot cooldowns are not affected anymore)
      Why? What is the reason behind this change? Why do you get rid of an interesting part of the weapon instead of dealing with actual problem?
      My idea of balancing out bloodletter:

      Lunging stabs ability should be slower (something like daybreaker "breakthrough" speed, but with lower or no cast time at the beginning of stab, visible animation would also be appreciated)
      • Lunging stabs (Bloodletter)
        • slower dash speed (don't know exact numbers)
        • cast time instant -> 0.2s (uninterruptible, optional)
        • adding a visible stab animation (optional)
      Reason for these changes:
      - ability would require to be timed well;
      - puts it in line with the only other execute weapon - infernal scythe;
      - isn't nerfed directly, still 40% execute but allows for counterplay;

      This is important change on one of the most used weapons in the game right now. Please do it responsibly and take care of actual problem. I generally dislike 40% execute abilities and would like both to be nerfed to 30%, but if it has to stay in the game, please at least add counterplay to it.

      Cheers

      Laem wrote:

      Bloodletter needs some changes for sure. But I 100% agree that this NDA proposal is pointless for BL.
      Cast time might be decent. Or make the E damage be stack dependents :
      current damage x1.0 on 3 stacks,
      x0.8 on 2 stacks,
      x0.6 on 1 stack
      x0.4 without stacks.

      Or even a cast time stack dependent :
      0s with 3 stacks (instant as right now)
      0.2 with 2 stacks
      0.3 with 1 stacks
      0.4 without stacks

      (you'll get best numbers than these, but you got the idea)

      So keep the execute, keep the damage, but please allow some counterplay or some mechanics

      Voryson wrote:

      Hey lads,

      Cast time / damage depending on charges would have the side effect of nerfing a bit the ratting playstyle, sounds good!

      Have a good one!
      Do not try to nerf daggers more than it already is nerfed lol. Bloodletter is not good for 1v1. If u nerf it to counter ratting playstyle, ppl will use other stuff to rat. any nerf regarding execute will KILL the weapon.
    • It was so much whining on the forum about BL, that Devs decide to punish you, by buffing it. :D

      Foxyy_ wrote:

      Lunging stabs ability should be slower (something like daybreaker "breakthrough" speed, but with lower or no cast time at the beginning of stab, visible animation would also be appreciated)
      Not a fan of this, weapon will become clumsy...

      Alternative idea:
      Remove HP dependency, dmg stays like it is now (when opponent is above 40% HP) cd 20s, ability can be recast again with smaller dmg, this will increase cd to 30s. So like whole combo has less dmg, and lower cd, when used only once, will increase a kitting potential of BL.
    • jad0 wrote:

      Alternative idea:Remove HP dependency, dmg stays like it is now (when opponent is above 40% HP) cd 20s, ability can be recast again with smaller dmg, this will increase cd to 30s. So like whole combo has less dmg, and lower cd, when used only once, will increase a kitting potential of BL.
      Recast ? It would be a huuuuge mobility buff, I don't like that
    • i think BL has a better gameplay if it's played like bear paws, i.e. spam E with refreshed cooldown if damage applied. Bonus damage bellow 40% should be removed.

      P.s. Latest changes dosen't solve breaked BL combo: cleric robe + poison potion + mage cowl + thetford cape -> E execution.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Anhe ().

    • anyone who wants to keep the bloodletter execute the way it is now is probably a rat. BL is the only weapon in the game with an instant execute, good mobility, and good damage. Its why BLs have been the predominant weapon since the start of the game.

      I completely agree with LucasR that there needs to be some counterplay to the execute. At least for infernal scythe, which is the only other execute weapon in the game, the E requires a charge up time and has a small radius. BL's execute is just disgustingly imbalanced with a long reach and instant cast.

      FYI bloodletter is my second most used weapon so im not just some salty player crying. Because i use bloodletter i know just how incredibly unbalanced it is, especially for ratting kills and loot. Pls let other weapons have their time in the sun and retire BL. thanks.
    • the overarching problem of bloodletter is the combination of an instant cast, stackless, 40% hp threshold execute
      bloodletter is so easy to play, just find a target under 40% and press E, there is virtually no reaction time and no stacks you must build or other prerequisites
      you're buffing infernal scythe in patch 2, the major reason its unplayed is because enemies can react to it, unlike bloodletter's instant execute

      a couple mini-rework options imo:

      Cooldown / Utility
      • Removed execute range
      • Grants 90% cooldown reduction for 1s upon hitting a player
      • Damage: 153.32 -> 100
      • Energy cost: 17 -> 20
      no more instant execute, go play infernal scythe instead
      full kit cdr benefits mobility (daggers playstyle) and armor spell utility
      maybe tune up the energy cost even more to mitigate full on spell spamming

      Stack Based Thresholds
      • Removed cooldown reduction
      • Execute threshold is now based on stacks:
        • 0 stacks: 20%
        • 1 stacks: 30%
        • 2 stacks: 40%
        • 3 stacks: 50%
      no more dismount on low health target for instant execute
      better in group play when maintaining stacks
      purge counters, telegraphed build up stacks to execute

      Bleed / Anti-frontline
      • Removed cooldown reduction
      • Execute now true damage DoT
        • Damage per tick: 70
        • Duration: 2 seconds (3 ticks)
      damage scaled to finish off most targets from 40%
      can still get heals or pop hard defensive during 2s DoT window
      useful to secure kills on tough tanks / melees
      actual bloodletter (also why is it called lunging stabs?)


      there are a lot of problems with the dagger line, mostly stemming from deadly swipe and stackless Es
      all the bloodletter nerf really did was slightly hurt ratting and make it worse in brawling groups
      I just hope we get an actual mobile assassin back with the eventual melee reworks
      ~ Kanra
    • All of the ideas made by Kanra are very good in their own way, they solve ratting which is most important right now, but still give bloodletter identity and a place where they can shine.
      With stack based tresholds I'd even start from 10% and with 3 stacks keep it at 40%, 50 seems too much.

      Kanra doing amazing work with balancing stuff.
    • JCPMP wrote:

      anyone who wants to keep the bloodletter execute the way it is now is probably a rat. BL is the only weapon in the game with an instant execute, good mobility, and good damage. Its why BLs have been the predominant weapon since the start of the game.

      I completely agree with LucasR that there needs to be some counterplay to the execute. At least for infernal scythe, which is the only other execute weapon in the game, the E requires a charge up time and has a small radius. BL's execute is just disgustingly imbalanced with a long reach and instant cast.

      FYI bloodletter is my second most used weapon so im not just some salty player crying. Because i use bloodletter i know just how incredibly unbalanced it is, especially for ratting kills and loot. Pls let other weapons have their time in the sun and retire BL. thanks.

      Kanra.zip wrote:

      the overarching problem of bloodletter is the combination of an instant cast, stackless, 40% hp threshold execute
      bloodletter is so easy to play, just find a target under 40% and press E, there is virtually no reaction time and no stacks you must build or other prerequisites
      you're buffing infernal scythe in patch 2, the major reason its unplayed is because enemies can react to it, unlike bloodletter's instant execute

      a couple mini-rework options imo:

      Cooldown / Utility
      • Removed execute range
      • Grants 90% cooldown reduction for 1s upon hitting a player
      • Damage: 153.32 -> 100
      • Energy cost: 17 -> 20
      no more instant execute, go play infernal scythe instead
      full kit cdr benefits mobility (daggers playstyle) and armor spell utility
      maybe tune up the energy cost even more to mitigate full on spell spamming

      Stack Based Thresholds
      • Removed cooldown reduction
      • Execute threshold is now based on stacks:
        • 0 stacks: 20%
        • 1 stacks: 30%
        • 2 stacks: 40%
        • 3 stacks: 50%
      no more dismount on low health target for instant execute
      better in group play when maintaining stacks
      purge counters, telegraphed build up stacks to execute

      Bleed / Anti-frontline
      • Removed cooldown reduction
      • Execute now true damage DoT
        • Damage per tick: 70
        • Duration: 2 seconds (3 ticks)
      damage scaled to finish off most targets from 40%
      can still get heals or pop hard defensive during 2s DoT window
      useful to secure kills on tough tanks / melees
      actual bloodletter (also why is it called lunging stabs?)


      there are a lot of problems with the dagger line, mostly stemming from deadly swipe and stackless Es
      all the bloodletter nerf really did was slightly hurt ratting and make it worse in brawling groups
      I just hope we get an actual mobile assassin back with the eventual melee reworks

      Foxyy_ wrote:

      All of the ideas made by Kanra are very good in their own way, they solve ratting which is most important right now, but still give bloodletter identity and a place where they can shine.
      With stack based tresholds I'd even start from 10% and with 3 stacks keep it at 40%, 50 seems too much.

      Kanra doing amazing work with balancing stuff.
      you guys might be really dumb. If the weapon does not execute, its good for nothing. Want to solve ratting problem ???? ADD A FUCKING MIN IP to enter mists ( 1350 / 1400 lets say ), then killing those rats will be worthed. BUT CHANGING THE EXECUTE WILL KILL THE WEAPON
    • LucasR wrote:

      If the weapon does not execute, its good for nothing.

      Eeehhm so like other ~130 weapons without execute in Albion are good for nothing? Did you just admit how good bloodletter is? xD
      I mean - i understand that you meant BL, but boooy look at what you wrote xD

      Not necessary kill, but a lot of smoothbrains and mom's solo champions will be upset for sure. And i'm pretty sure that the reason Bloodletter was untouched for SO LONG - is SBI dont having big enough balls to rework it, and thus upset a large chunk of player base (which is understandable tbh). So IF it will ever be reworked, it will just become different weapon, thats it. Maybe it will be even more braindead and oppresing, who knows. But in any case -Bloodletter is begging for rework lets face it.


      LucasR wrote:

      you guys might be really dumb.
      Aaaaaaah, the irony

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Metteia ().

    • Metteia wrote:

      LucasR wrote:

      If the weapon does not execute, its good for nothing.
      Eeehhm so like other ~130 weapons without execute in Albion are good for nothing? Did you just admit how good bloodletter is? xD
      I mean - i understand that you meant BL, but boooy look at what you wrote xD

      Not necessary kill, but a lot of smoothbrains and mom's solo champions will be upset for sure. And i'm pretty sure that the reason Bloodletter was untouched for SO LONG - is SBI dont having big enough balls to rework it, and thus upset a large chunk of player base (which is understandable tbh). So IF it will ever be reworked, it will just become different weapon, thats it. Maybe it will be even more braindead and oppresing, who knows. But in any case -Bloodletter is begging for rework lets face it.


      LucasR wrote:

      you guys might be really dumb.
      Aaaaaaah, the irony
      Bloodletter suffers from lack of mana, ez to be kyted, if played without mage cowl has to effective damage in a 1v1. if faced against merc jacket you cant out damage the healing. know what ? nerf it to the ground, ppl will just choose another weapon to rat with. Gloves, bows... whatever. ratting is not linked directly to bloodletter.