Rework on few weapons

    • Combat Balance
    • Rework on few weapons

      Hello,

      I've been playing AO for almost 2 years now and even though I haven't tried every content in a game yet I'd like to see some of weapon lines reworked (mostly melee since the playstyle feels quite similar in all of them). It's a personal opinion on combat balance and I understand some people may not agree with it.

      1. Spears - boost resilience penetration (during group fights it feels like they don't put enough pressure)
      2. Daggers - change deadly swipe ability to aoe swing similar to demonfang e "blood ritual" (same cd and damage as deadly swipe + stacks but no mobility) without self damaging urself. Demonfang e could change into true damage but adjusted accordingly. Also could be recast only one more time with penalty of damaging yourself and increased cooldown after secondary use.
      If deadly swipe mobility was gone, dash could receive range buff back to what it was without daggers having too much mobility.
      Rework on bloodletter e ability so it's not an execute anymore, instead it would deal more damage depending on stacks (consuming all of assassin spirit and sunder armor charges). If at least one enemy was hit with 3 charges, lunging stab had an option to be used again but dealing a little bit of true damage instead. It would go on longer cooldown after secondary use.
      3. Axes - change bear paws e true damage part into physical damage (increased damage accordingly). Increase halberd & carrioncaller e damage. Also increase carrioncaller e width slightly.
      4. Quarterstaff rework
      5. Swords - claymore e ability should depend on number of stacks (0 stacks would only do damage, 1-2 could be a slow for example, 3 stacks would be a full stun as it is now). Broadsword ability would only give resistance buff after e used with 3 stacks.
      6. Curse staffs - change cursed staff to be cleansable again, with faster cast time and instead of 5 seconds it could be 2.5-4 sec. till "blow up" (still can't be reflected).
      7. Nature staff - q3 rework (rejuvenating flower) could be changed into being able to be picked up by everyone (time to grow could be same, lasting time could be reduced and it would give HoTs to everyone within small circle). Right now flower feels too complex (most nature healers I find use q1 + breeze). Reduce healing on greatnature e ability for each hit or make it work on direct damage only without being purgable.

      Also would be nice for all weapon trees to be unique in some way (spears and frost would be known for slows, fire for dots, axes with dots + anti heal, curse with dots + pierce, daggers for true damage etc.)
    • good attempt

      but there are some weapons that need to be heavily looked case by case
      what you are describing is abit broad

      and there are some fundemental issues in some weapon lines that makes them weaker / stronger in certain senarios

      i would love to more people like you share their opinion
      feel free to discuss with our inhouse experts or weapon mains about their topics

      look for me for bows and maces
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • @Foxyy_ How do you argue for these changes you proposed, for example, why u want to change "Deadly Swiape", doas the mobilyty it provides is to OP, same with BloodLeter "E" dmg or nerfing BearPaws by changing true to physical dmg... I just wonder what are the reasons behind for making these changes... And I'm suprised you didn't mention Morning Star and GrailSeeker - the most OP weapons in group ganking.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jad0 ().

    • Spear is the most trash melee weapon in this Game. None of the two handed spear are useful for group fight. Absolutely no one. Must be reworked. Glaive left in Oblivion. Trinity failed concept. Pike only one shot viable.
      When is daybraker going to be fixed? Still worst avalonian melee weapon.
      All one handed spear should have 50% resilent penetration
    • @Hattenhair Defnitely and there is many more weapons that need slight adjustments/full rework. I simply lack knowledge about some of those and for some I can't think of how I would change them so they are well balanced.


      @The_Support_God thanks and agreed there is a lot more than only couple ones I mentioned here. I genuinely hope for melee rework after mage rework is done.


      @jad0 I won't go over all of the reasoning behind the changes I suggested but every weapon that is mentioned here needs a change imo (and many more). Deadly swipe gives too much mobility like u said and energy penalty isn't enough. I still want daggers to be mobile that's why bringing back dash to what it used to be sounds reasonable imo.
      Swords have been a trouble in cds for far too long and claymore is one of the main weapons used in hgs too, but that also requires cds changes and I won't go over that here.
      I don't think axes should have true damage, paws already are very strong with mobility + high damage with cooldown reduction on e if u hit a target, simply doesn't need it.
      Bloodletter.. I don't think I need to explain, it's too strong as of now, rats use it, one shot build in ow is so common I sometimes think there are no other weapons in albion. Bloodletter is probably one of the weapons I'd like to see reworked asap.
      I did not mention morning star as it got "nerfed" already so SBI is already working on it and is aware of the issue. I mentioned quarterstaff rework which includes grailseeker but as I don't use these weapons at all I cannot give any idea on how it would look like. Most of them aren't used at all or only in very specific situations.
      I only went over some of the weapons, I don't think the change to frosts was good for example, but they are still working on them, same for arcane since these are last patched weapons.


      @PaladinJavier Spear tree is good but for solo/duo content mostly, pike one shot is still quite strong (2v2hg i.e.), glaive used to be in meta for crystals but I don't know much about it since I don't play it. Daybreaker was used in cds, and trident still is. I just want them to be used in more group content and they don't put enough damage in group while being very strong in solo/duo content. Both heron spear & daybreaker could be a good addition but it feels punishing to use it over other brawl weapons.
    • @Foxyy_
      your comment about @PaladinJavier is half right half wrong
      spear is a jack of all trades kind of tree
      where a nerf of buff in a direction has huge impact in on its performance

      it has no clear weaknesses as it has a versatile W kit
      a switch of a W spell and you are instantly more effective vs X build

      because of the above mentioned traits of spear
      the moment its strong for solo it is also strong for small scale 5s

      Q is a long range poke, AoE , Slow, AA steroid
      W can switch between AoE, Poke slow, Steroid for one shot and even reflect with energy restore also Harpoon

      day breaker is a problem though it looks and feels conceptually good
      but plays like crap
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • @The_Support_God I realise spear is very versitile and I love it that way but even in 5 man parties I don't see daybreaker/heron being used at all not to mention others. Unless it's picking one player to burst him down but that's also rare. I think slight increase to resilience penetration would make it feel more rewarding running and maybe slight change to daybreaker e since I like the idea of purge but it feels rlly awkward to play.
    • Spears are good choice for solo players, I don't know why you guys want to force the idea of bringing spears to small scales, since there are more efficient options for it. I agrre of some minor rework, couse some of the spears are bearly used, however lets not flatten all weapons to one dimention, thats becouse swords are good in small scale, doesnt mean that spears have to be as well.
    • +1 most with dagger Q2. disgusting skill.

      not exactly sure with axe/spear
      halberd and carioncaller are now strong. any dmg tweak from E will push them past the broken line.

      spear is strong in smallscale, just requires timing and thinking, heron is better than 1hmace if you build it right but it has no i-frame and you need positioning when 1hmace is braindead E spam....
      I would look more for solutions in removing i-frame and free engage by which other weapons will be more frequent choice.... if you have to choose better debuff over guaranteed CC the choice is obvious better to hit 5x weaker CC than 1 stronger one.

      ava spear aoe purge every 20sec is huge, especially now in meta melle hellion jacket
      .
      let's not go for buff DMG to make it playable because Albion will turn into LOL league of 1shot ^^
    • @Quagga "spear is strong in smallscale, just requires timing and thinking, heron is better than 1hmace if you build it right but it has no i-frame and you need positioning when 1hmace is braindead E spam...." You just proved it's not better then I feel like, my guild used to be on heron spear tank but swapped to mace too.

      Carrioncaller I'd suggest at least making the aoe wider. Not sure how halberd could be improved, but it feels like greataxe is a better choice 9/10 times (even though it's different usage).

      Daybreaker is a great utility but even though we got every bruiser on hellion jacket nowadays I still don't see daybreakers being played. When I've played spear in small scale group, it just felt weak on damage, that's why I was thinking about a minor buff.

      Agreed on not simply buffing damage tho, but I lack knowledge how to improve some of the weapons. And the most important change I want to see is deadly swipe for sure. They tried with energy penalty but it didn't change much.
    • Painball wrote:

      Frost Shot / Forcefield combo is the only thing that needs addressed right now. The reason we have so many swords is that you literally cannot play anything else
      if you wish to address this then please give bows some viable W and Q skills by rework

      frost staff had this addressed to the point
      it has now viable support skills outside of frost blink it has

      armor pen spear,
      team steroid totem,
      aoe slow bomb
      and a frost beam that is viable
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      W can switch between AoE, Poke slow, Steroid for one shot and even reflect with energy restore also Harpoon
      I always find this a really poor argument for the spear line not needing some help. It may have a lot of versatility, but at the cost of being not particularly good at anything in particular. So there is never a good reason to use them instead of other weapons in group/zvz fights where you don't need versatility and being able to fill a specific role is more important.

      The only attention the weapon line has had in patches since March 2021 is to nerf something and they have crept into being fairly useless outside of 1h spear and trinity in CDs and spirithunter in ZvZ. Saying that, you rarely see them in CDs now unless that person has been using the weapon for a long time, because there are so many easier and better options to play. And no one is going to cry any tears if someone can't bring a spirithunter to zvz after it got nerfed too.

      Daybreaker or heron spear could easily be the weapons in this line that have some utility in group fights, but they need a bit of help to get there. I don't know what that might be, if it's a simple damage buff/higher resilience penetration to those weapons or something else needed, but people just don't use them over other better options.

      I mean, it's about time something needs to be done. This is every change in the last 18 months:

      • Corrupting Steel (Spirit Hunter):
        • Area Damage per Tick: 36 → 32

      • Fling (Glaive):
        • Cooldown: 15s → 20s

      • Spirit Spear Charge (all Spears):
        • Normal Attack Damage Increase: 40% → 32%

      • Spirit Spear Charge (all Spears)
        • Normal attack Damage increase: 32% -> 28
      • Glaive:
        • Resilience Penetration: 50% → 30%
      • Fling (Glaive):
        • Cast Range: 5m → 3m

      • Harpoon (all Spears):
        • Cooldown: 15s → 20s
      • Fling (Glaive):
        • Pull Distance: 10m → 7m
    • it is this absolute versatility that is the problem

      when its weak its weak on all fronts
      when its strong its too strong on all fronts

      also you cannot simply judge spear is weak because it has only received nerfs
      it became strong because other weapons got nerfed/ changed

      before the rework of mage weapons we dont see such versatility
      putting aside wargloves other weapons have clear weaknesses and playstyles expected of them

      @Cspar so if you want to buff spears how would you go around it?
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      also you cannot simply judge spear is weak because it has only received nerfs
      it became strong because other weapons got nerfed/ changed



      @Cspar so if you want to buff spears how would you go around it?
      And it's become a weak weapon line, because other weapons have received buffs.

      Like I said, I don't think all spears need a rework. 1h spear, trinity and spirithunter all have their place. Daybreaker and Heron are the ones that require a bit of help to make them useful in smallscale or brawler roles. Resilience penetration might be the real issue here for those weapons.
      • 1H spear - shit at group content because stacks fall off after E, OK in solo because it has mobility. (Could use a bit of a knock-up time buff aswell)
      • Glaive - somewhat usable in 5v5, wargloves exist though.
      • Pike - seen in 2v2/gank and oneshot builds, this one is mostly ok, perhaps some minor tweaks.
      • Heron - the only hard-CC option for spears besides the meme 0.6s knockup on 1H, suffers heavily in group content due to frontliners blocking the projectile constantly (making it into a timed ground-target AoE like ray of light could be an answer to this).
      • Spirithunter - this one is fine, we all know it.
      • Trinity - ultimately it failed as a group buffing weapon, yet is seen in 1v1 quite frequently. Has buffs for both the front and backline members of the group so your buffs are always spread thin. (Cast speed and attack speed should be changed for a minor damage buff suitable for most group members, also consider adding a lingering effect to the movespeed, might become an issue for 1v1 though)
      • Daybreaker - Fists of Avalon exist.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?