Great nature & CD's

    • Great nature & CD's

      So, if before rework patch you wondered if druid will be back in our favorite (self) torture chambers aka corrupted dungeons, several months later it finally is, but probably not the way some expected.

      As it turned out, the optimal thing is not to use the shiny new damage dealing W, but go for revitalize instead. Combine revitalize W and E and your opponent will have a tough choice:
      - Hit you to shorten revitalize duration, and heal you by E
      - Don't hit you into E and allow you full revitalize channel (which is roughly 1/4 to 1/3 hp pool)

      murderledger.com/players/PotatoWRLD/ledger - great case study, he has most of his fights available as vods.

      Radom observations:
      - "just purge him" - yeah, ok, you purged the E, you have like 10 seconds to kill him, and he still has W and cleric robe.
      - Revitalize is rather short cooldown (7 second before cdr), and first tick is guaranteed
      - No cast time on E means no warning, you WILL do a couple hits into it
      - vs melees the problem of "hitting the Q" dissipates - just spam it under yourself

      Should it be nerfed? IDK honestly, it's not popular enough (yet?) and probably not opressive enough (meta builds can run away). Just oh so anoying
    • Do me a favor and try to play it.

      I am main nature, and I tell you, it doesn't work for me. I see, that it works for him.

      I catch almost none in this setup and I die not too rare..

      I do think at the end of the day.. this guy simply has skill and is good in that. Just look, nobody and a lot of people tried to be good with that build. We are Not..
    • Trial_hard wrote:

      Do me a favor and try to play it.

      I am main nature, and I tell you, it doesn't work for me. I see, that it works for him.

      I catch almost none in this setup and I die not too rare..

      I do think at the end of the day.. this guy simply has skill and is good in that. Just look, nobody and a lot of people tried to be good with that build. We are Not..
      if they dont fix this stupid op weapon, i might be quiting this game. I play solo and CD are only good pvp content for me but when i loose all items fighting broken weapon i get kinda upset lol.
    • Qpek wrote:

      Trial_hard wrote:

      Do me a favor and try to play it.

      I am main nature, and I tell you, it doesn't work for me. I see, that it works for him.

      I catch almost none in this setup and I die not too rare..

      I do think at the end of the day.. this guy simply has skill and is good in that. Just look, nobody and a lot of people tried to be good with that build. We are Not..
      if they dont fix this stupid op weapon, i might be quiting this game. I play solo and CD are only good pvp content for me but when i loose all items fighting broken weapon i get kinda upset lol.
      CAn i have your staff?
    • I agree. Revitalize is overtuned, espescially in CD. The most popular build with Great Nature is laughably broken with only a select few weapons countering it. It takes some skill to use, but it's potency is way too high. It's frustrating to fight against and also to play with since a lot of people will break crystals. Revitalize, or maybe self heal in general (excluding heal from dealing damage) needs a nerf in CD. Much like Q heals have now.

      And no; being able to run away from a weapon does not make it balanced.
    • i tried to walk @Trial_hard through revitalize W build before
      and how effective it would be against kite builds
      and the many debates we had

      but in reality after testing
      back then when i still play CD
      people rather use protection of nature or new shiny W bramble seed to kite

      revitalize just consume way too much mana to be viable now
      and you do not need that much healing in the first place with the build @Trial_hard runs

      edit 1: sorry for scatter brain moment regading green line statement
      i ment it as for group content
      but i still stand by that that much healing is not needed
      @Schmellow look below for my other response
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 4 times, last by The_Support_God ().

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      revitalize just consume way too much mana to be viable now
      I'm sorry, what?

      First of all, it literally costs 0 mana: cast costs 0 mana as per tooltip, and it says "restore x health and y mana every 1s", which for the mana i suppose it takes it out of your pool and pumps into a target, kinda like arcane did. If the target is YOU, guess what happens? It restores it right back at you, so the net loss is zero. Yes, i checked

      Second, it's objectively viable. That's how everyone plays today
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    • revitalize should be made other ally only, remove break on damage. Both revitalize and holy heal beam should be 2s channels 10s cooldown single target throughput options IMO, holy can heal a bit more while revitalize gives some mana.

      For corrupt dungeons specifically, its kind of a rock paper scissor thing anyways, sure its an annoying build to face for some but how you think the nature feels when he goes up against one hand arcane or high burst / mobility builds like wargloves? They county nature pretty hard.
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      revitalize just consume way too much mana to be viable now
      I apologize for this scattered brain moment

      as it does cost way too much but when cast for teamfights when cast on other people
      but when self cast it cost near 0 mana or mana net equal when channeled fully due to changes in patch 2 into the frey

      into the frey patch 2 changes
      • Revitalize (all Nature Staffs)
        • Energycost at Channel Start: 0 -> 20
        • Energycost per Channel Tick: 9 -> 4


      @Schmellow
      revitalize is often used like cultist robe to heal up after gaining space and is easily interruptible by damage and cc
      current meta weapons simply dont allow for nature to take advantage of the skill healing potential
      and this is compared to 1h Holy and hallowfall E which is instant cast

      experience is based on testing when i played CD 2 months ago
      so tell me what changed


      i see that the player you mentioned use cleric robe and great nature E to ensure his revitalize full channel goes through
      this is what i was afraid off when i try to bring this case to @Trial_hard
      it does have alot of sustain and not many builds can DPS check / break the heal power

      so @Trial_hard how would you handle this case?
      in your own words you have convince me in the past that revitalize W was a weaker option
      and easily countered
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 7 times, last by The_Support_God ().

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      I apologize for this scattered brain moment
      as it does cost way too much but when cast for teamfights when cast on other people
      but when self cast it cost near 0 mana or mana net equal when channeled fully due to changes in patch 2 into the frey

      into the frey patch 2 changes
      • Revitalize (all Nature Staffs)
        • Energycost at Channel Start: 0 -> 20
        • Energycost per Channel Tick: 9 -> 4

      I Wish that you will explain in the next post how it is connected to CD balance)

      Actually gnature can be easily killed by several popular builds. Yes it is a pain in the ass for some encounters, but it sould not be an issue, nature has 0 mobility.
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      current meta weapons simply dont allow for nature to take advantage of the skill healing potential
      Well maybe in 2 months people gained better understanging how and when use it properly, to get more ticks off?
      For instance (like i already mentioned), you can combine it with E, which disincentivizes hitting you
      Also the cooldown is very low, so it's a low stakes ability - you can easily get single tick heals inbetween action. Some heal vs no heal is obviously an improvement, no?

      Again, there are VODs, you can see and ascertain for yourself

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Schmellow ().

    • @Sethis this change of having a high base cost was suggested by someone in a thread long ago due to
      low cooldown of revitalize
      and SBI adopted it

      by adding high initial cost it suppose to balance the skill so interrupting it was a viable counter


      its just that when i played CD during my active time i never quite saw as much revitalize W natures
      only about 2 times i saw revitalize build and brought up the possible revitalize build to @Trial_hard
      in the end it was judged as protection of nature and bramble seed gave more value than revitalize

      and also in your words G nature can be killed but
      its a pain in the ass to kill
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().

    • Schmellow wrote:

      The_Support_God wrote:

      current meta weapons simply dont allow for nature to take advantage of the skill healing potential
      Well maybe in 2 months people gained better understanging how and when use it properly, to get more ticks off?For instance (like i already mentioned), you can combine it with E, which disincentivizes hitting you
      Also the cooldown is very low, so it's a low stakes ability - you can easily get single tick heals inbetween action. Some heal vs no heal is obviously an improvement, no?

      Again, there are VODs, you can see and ascertain for yourself

      in this case i am realy out of loop due to not engaging in CD for 2 months

      cant say more about the topic because spouting random numbers here
      without experiencing fighting that build first hand is illogical
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 2 times, last by The_Support_God ().

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      Schmellow wrote:

      The_Support_God wrote:

      current meta weapons simply dont allow for nature to take advantage of the skill healing potential
      Well maybe in 2 months people gained better understanging how and when use it properly, to get more ticks off?For instance (like i already mentioned), you can combine it with E, which disincentivizes hitting youAlso the cooldown is very low, so it's a low stakes ability - you can easily get single tick heals inbetween action. Some heal vs no heal is obviously an improvement, no?

      Again, there are VODs, you can see and ascertain for yourself
      in this case i am realy out of loop due to not engaging in CD for 2 months

      cant say more about the topic because spouting random numbers here
      without experiencing fighting that build first hand is illogical
      as i said schmellow, if it's OP show how YOU do it.

      It's all there, build Playstyle etc..

      If just a few people can do it, it's called skill.

      If all can do it, in case of prestack on sword it's called op.

      In this case I died several times more often as him..and I am not good enough to produce similar results
    • Well maybe i'll do it, need to find the time. How many games do you think would be representative? I expect it to be skipped a lot

      Still, people scream all the time how for example spears are broken, and i can't play spears for shit. Maybe it's all about skill and nothing is OP?
    • Its kinda wierd noone talks about most broken passive buff called Calmness - it make you a tank wearing cloth armor, casting 5 spells are nothing for nature user, becouse he can spam spells all the time with this low mana costs.


      Also everyone knows that nature staffs deall way too much damage, and saying that you can play it also doesnt make it ok.


      And also look how crazy is Avalonian Pork Omelette for cloth users - cast speed + cooldowns 12.3 % and also gives 7,919% defense, its like hes wearing a shield lol.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Qpek ().

    • Well i played 4 fights so far. 1.3 mil infamy trinity was a hard fight ngl, i would probably lose to this guy on anything else
      Only whispering realized he has to skip, but did it too late on a map with imps and thieves

      Pve is top notch, better than q2 fire probably, but i already knew that

      ps. good point about ava omelette, i played 7.2 plain pork, ava ones would help
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