Dagger passive needs change (lifesteal passive).

    • Combat Balance
    • Dagger passive needs change (lifesteal passive).

      Short Description:
      The playstyle of every dagger, with the exception of one hand dagger maybe, is to burst the enemy down with spells. Therefore, dagger users don't auto attack enemies that much, and therefore don't benefit as much from the passive, unlike spears or axes.

      As for the other passive, they aren't as unusable as the lifesteal one. Reason being is because it allows dagger users to deal moderate amount of damage if they ever find themselves in a situation where enemy is close to dying and need just that tiny bit of damage to finish off.


      Urgency:
      This is not a very urgent fix as daggers are really only used in zvz, ganking, or corrupted dungeons(the rare occasion of deathgivers and dual daggers). Only bloodletter really is used outside of these things. However, it would be very nice to see the lifesteal passive changed to something that dagger users can actually benefit from.


      Argumentation:
      - Outside of corrupted dungeons, dagger passives are basically never used or even matter.

      - Only thing that shines for daggers in zvz/smallscale/ganking is their e ability, which allows them to deal massive amounts of damage to kill their enemies. Their passives are basically non-existent.

      - The heal isn't bad in numbers compared to spear and axes, however, things are different when you put them in actual combat. Against bows in corrupted, they usually run frost shot. This makes it harder to auto attack them frequently. It is also hard to auto sword users sometimes when they stack up and run around you.
      | - 1 spear/axe auto would heal roughly 10 hp, while the dagger users would heal only around 5 hp. that's 50% of the healing of spears and axes.

      - Dagger playstyle is to burst, not to sustain.
      | - Sure, there's the brawlers deathgivers build but that's just mercenary jacket helping them reaching 3 assassin spirit charges to burst.
      | - Theres no use for healing when you can't kill the enemies

      - A suggestion for replacing the healing passive for daggers is being able to apply sunder armor or gain spirit charges after a number of auto attacks, just like how swords can gain stacks through their passive. This would allow dagger users to able to more easily deal damage.
      | - I am not suggesting that this is the only viable option to change the healing passive to, it is simply a suggestion.
      | - I would greatly appreciate other suggestions from other players in this thread. Just to see how other people think of the healing passive for daggers.


      - Dagger mobility abilities can limit damage output. (I do understand that this is unrelated to the passive change suggestion...just my personal opinion)
      | - For deadly swipe, the mana cost is not worth it for using it as a gap closer when the ability doesn't hit any entities. Another thing is that with the cooldown length of Deadly Swipe, if you miss one cast, you end up losing every stack you built up previously. (It takes around 12 seconds to stack to 3 charges with deadly swipe, 6 seconds to inflict 3 stacks of sunder armor for first Q ability).
      | - Even if the dagger user is able to consistently hit deadly swipe, the dps is lower than when using sunder armor, because of the 4 second cooldown. But, if sunder armor is picked, the user will have less mobility.
      | - This is usually countered by using a mobility spell such as Dash, Shadow Edge, or Chain slash. However, Shadow Edge is the more consistent of the 3 because the Dash and Chain slash range is not the best. Against bows, cursed, fires, and frost, which all have high damage outputs and self peel, it really is frustrating to sacrifice damage abilities for mobility just to get to the enemy who possibly still has abilities ready to help them gain distance away from the dagger user.
      | - The issue does not end when you are able to get to the enemy, it actually worsens. The reason is because since a slot for a damage ability was swapped for a mobility ability, the damage output of the dagger user naturally goes down, while the enemy is free to blast away with their abilities.
      | - Now, I am not saying to lengthen chain slash and dash range, that would influence daggers' performances in unexpected ways in various forms of content. Personally I think Dash and Chain Slash are pretty balanced right now.
      | - Furthermore, I am also not saying that I would like daggers to be able to stick onto enemies 24/7, that would not be balanced. I would just like to allow dagger users to be able to more consistently deal damage when they swap out damage abilities for mobility abilities.
      | - A possible fix could be: Shadow Edge is able to deal damage / Shadow Edge removes some resistances / Shadow Edge reduces enemy damage output and slows them / Shadow Edge grants a stack of assassin spirit charge or inflicts a sunder armor stack.
      | - These are just some possible suggestions, although the final suggestion could possibly be a bit unbalanced... I'll let the game devs and players who read this thread decide whether or not they think my suggestions would be unbalanced...

      P.S. I do understand SBI staff would prefer for me to include numbers and concrete proof, however I was a bit lazy so I hope SBI staff can take a look at the stuff.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by SuMAiRu653 ().