Buff generous heal or nerf holy flash

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    • I don't think it is that much necessary to fine tune holy staff Q at this moment. Generous heal output more heal per second than holy flash on a single target. Generous heal is useful if a single target is always being focused. You can easily miss holy flash if someone moves away quickly, e.g., by using a dash skill or boots, this happens quite often in solo arenas. To get most value out of holy flash, you need to clump, which is bad in itself and you risk taking AoE by enemy. Generous heal is useful for spread-out party, which is how you should play, especially when your party position correctly and spread-out in 5v5 games. Generous heal also has lower cooldown.

      In most situations, holy flash is still better because as long as you can guarantee at least two people are being healed, it always heals for more. I prefer holy flash in 5v5 with a lot of melee players since they tend to clump. If there are a lot of ranged players, I would take generous heal, since they will spread out. You can still switch to holy flash if you are being focused often, so you can heal an ally and yourself at the same time so you don't have to run away from battle.

      What they should really pay attention to are the trash tier Q heal spells for nature staffs.
    • DookieCookie wrote:

      In most situations, holy flash is still better because as long as you can guarantee at least two people are being healed, it always heals for more
      (...)
      What they should really pay attention to are the trash tier Q heal spells for nature staffs.
      There, you said it.
      Nature's strength is split HoT's and healing alot of targets at once, but why bother learning a high skill floor technique when Holy flash does the same thing, faster, in a burst manner and is just about as uninterruptible (excluding accidents) as nature Q variants.

      Using a 1504 IP GH staff paired with a 60% healing bonus set (cleric + agressive passives) and a regular t7 omelette, we get:
      Generous heal:
      • 573 Health healed
      • 0.61s cast time, 1.73s cooldown, 2.34s total.
      • 31 energy cost, 794 EPM (energy per minute)
      • 14692 HPM (health per minute), 18.5 EE (energy efficiency, healing per point of energy)
      Holy Flash:
      • 564 Health healed
      • 0.35s cast time (+0.35 hitdelay), 3.03s cooldown, 3.38s total.
      • 36 energy cost, 639 EPM.
      TargetsHPMEE
      11001215.7
      22002431.3
      33003647
      44004862.7
      55006078.3

      As a short conclusion, my gripes with holy flash are:
      1. You just can't fucking interrupt it with intent. 0.35s - "green" ping is on the edge of average reaction time, and that's not considering the usually hectic battlefield and hitdelays on interrupt spells.
        Getting interrupted by enemies completely by accident kills your HPM, and is generally frustrating that chance determines your success.
      2. It becomes stupidly energy efficient at 2+ targets. The druid which has less healing output but better energy management becomes less viable as the latter becomes a non-issue for holy.
      3. With hypermobility, dashes and such all around, it's quite easy to miss it.
      4. Can't cast-cancel the spell even with minor ping because of the 60% limiter and the short cast-time.
      The suggestions:
      1. Move the hitdelay into cast-time to fix issues (1) and (3), with the latter fixing issue (4) in a cascade.
      2. Reduce the power level of the spell (less healing per cast), and make it more spammable (less cooldown), to counteract the spell being interruptible by enemies.
      3. Reduce the received healing amount slightly, the more targets you heal at once (~5%, or less), contributing to fixing issue (2).
      P.S:
      It's fucking bullshit, I am tired of faceslapping my keyboard with holy flash, while generous heal is hardly able to compete while also requiring more skill to use.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Yap EVIL FLASH Opps is Holy Flash is STRONGER than Nature Q's 3 Rejuvenation Flower.

      Holy Qs1 and Qs 3 which one is better? Base on what situation you have , if you are in
      • Group Dungeon ,HCE , Q's 1
      • ZvZ healer for tank , Q's 1
      • ZvZ healer for party Q's 3
      • 2v2 Q's 1 ,
      • 5v5 all teammates is melee Q's 3 ,
      • 5v5 have lot range Q's 1
      • 10v10 Q's 3
    • it heals like 5% less than heal ball, is easier to use than heal ball, and has a 3.5s cooldown vs 15s for healball. And heal ball is probably the most used / popular holy w ... so ya lol, something is clearly off balance wise. nerf healing on holy flash 25-30% and would still be fine, should be worse than generous heal hps when hitting two target or less, clearly better hitting 3 or more.
    • Holy Flash (all Holy Staffs)
      • Casttime: 0.4s -> 0.8s
      • Hitdelay: 0.4s -> 0s
      decreases the output and mobility a little, makes it possible to interrupt, and you can cancel it if its going to miss
      I don't think we need to change anything too drastic here, generous should be aimed at anything under 5
      ~ Kanra
    • Kanra.zip wrote:

      Holy Flash (all Holy Staffs)
      • Casttime: 0.4s -> 0.8s
      • Hitdelay: 0.4s -> 0s
      decreases the output and mobility a little, makes it possible to interrupt, and you can cancel it if its going to miss
      I don't think we need to change anything too drastic here, generous should be aimed at anything under 5
      This.
      But also decrease the power level of the spell (less cooldown, less healing per cast), as I mentioned in the post above because getting your HF interrupted even once kills your HPM, which will become an issue with the reactable interrupt.
      Also, it makes 0 fucking sense why HF has the burst healing output of a Holy Sphere in terms of the Q W E spell strength hierarchy.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Lockemup wrote:

      could also just make the circle smaller lol, but then i guess that may make it shitty for 10v10 up to zvz, so probably just nerf output in someway
      It's not a good idea to make the circle smaller. People already dash and run out of the circle constantly with its current radius. It will also force people to clump closer together for heals. It could be a big enough nerf that everyone would just use generous heal since generous heal is guaranteed and it heals for more. The radius of the circle is okay right now.
    • DookieCookie wrote:

      Lockemup wrote:

      could also just make the circle smaller lol, but then i guess that may make it shitty for 10v10 up to zvz, so probably just nerf output in someway
      It's not a good idea to make the circle smaller. People already dash and run out of the circle constantly with its current radius. It will also force people to clump closer together for heals. It could be a big enough nerf that everyone would just use generous heal since generous heal is guaranteed and it heals for more. The radius of the circle is okay right now.
      my 2c but i do think generous heal should be the generally favored / most used q in 5v5 or lower content, less playing something really goofy w guard rune n such that keeps 3+ people stacked alot. Can you imagine trying to use nature q3 in 5v5? holy flash just has too much going for it and def needs some kind of nerf, i still think throughput is way to go, just cut the healing 30% it will still be great for 10v10+
    • Lockemup wrote:

      DookieCookie wrote:

      Lockemup wrote:

      could also just make the circle smaller lol, but then i guess that may make it shitty for 10v10 up to zvz, so probably just nerf output in someway
      It's not a good idea to make the circle smaller. People already dash and run out of the circle constantly with its current radius. It will also force people to clump closer together for heals. It could be a big enough nerf that everyone would just use generous heal since generous heal is guaranteed and it heals for more. The radius of the circle is okay right now.
      my 2c but i do think generous heal should be the generally favored / most used q in 5v5 or lower content, less playing something really goofy w guard rune n such that keeps 3+ people stacked alot. Can you imagine trying to use nature q3 in 5v5? holy flash just has too much going for it and def needs some kind of nerf, i still think throughput is way to go, just cut the healing 30% it will still be great for 10v10+
      30% healing nerf is huge. Holy flash in 5v5 is good, but not that good. Generous heal still has its uses in 5v5, especially if most of your party is ranged, in which case they will be spread out too much most of the time for holy flash to be of most value. Holy flash requires your team to constantly clump to get most value, but clumping also means they take more AoE damage. Taking less clump damage and using generous heal can be better.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by DookieCookie ().

    • DookieCookie wrote:

      Holy flash in 5v5 is good, but not that good.
      Almost an 80% increase in energy efficiency starting from 2 targets and on is a really big deal. Physically uninterruptible on reaction too with just a 0.4 base cast-time is a HUGE deal.
      I have noticeable problems with mana if I run Q1, as opposed to Q3 in the same team comp.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      DookieCookie wrote:

      Holy flash in 5v5 is good, but not that good.
      Almost an 80% increase in energy efficiency starting from 2 targets and on is a really big deal. Physically uninterruptible on reaction too with just a 0.4 base cast-time is a HUGE deal.I have noticeable problems with mana if I run Q1, as opposed to Q3 in the same team comp.
      That is true that holy flash gets most value if it can land on multiple targets. But often times, these multiple targets you are healing have to be clumped and are also taking AoE damage. People often can run out of holy flash AoE and so the heal is not guaranteed. That is the trade-off. If your team is spread out and position correctly, your holy flash should mostly end up healing 1 person most of the time, unless you have multiple melee players attacking one enemy. A small nerf to holy flash is fine, but I just think people are underestimating Q1's potential. Maybe even buff Q1's mana.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by DookieCookie ().