Weapon balance on the first day of the patch

    • Combat Balance
    • Weapon balance on the first day of the patch

      Hello Everyone TheSupportGod Here
      I am here to tell about my experience with the balance changes in the first day of the patch after running with the boys

      this experience is based on Corrupted dungeons , crystal arenas and open world

      @Hattenhair , @Trial_hard , @Quagga , @Catorcoffee

      Share your experience and thoughts about the new patch
      i hope you catch any weapon changes which was too strong / too weak and post them here

      We start with BOW line

      Mist piercer.
      Interaction with morgana cape is ruined the first cast take the whole 0.6 seconds

      Reg bow.
      Currently too weak. for a former King of Dps
      L.crossbow and fire staff outDPS Reg Bow in instanced content. Weak in Crystal arena ,5man hellgates and even corrupted dungeons against new fire and curse
      Melee weapon that is able to gap close can often times match reg bow dps.
      Takes way too long to get up to max stacks then more time to get value out of the stacks. other dps can output more damage during your charge up time and tanks can CC you

      Whispering bow
      At this state its currently better reg bow
      Glass cannon but performs better than reg bow on almost all fronts (as long as not targeted)
      This is the only bow that has RANGE advantage over other DPS. (not counting poke builds)
      other dps that has equal range to bow line but has more damage than them at the moment, rework fire and curse. and the current dps king L.Crossbow

      Curse staff Line
      Demonic staff
      Feels nice to play as and against. and the E is impactful
      E Lacks damage but with the CC it feels strong when combo with other skills

      Grudge
      Hits hard when used properly with spacing inbetween autos
      feels weak when spamming autos
      Feels like a high skill cap skill but to get max value its not viable under most cases. Old grudge still does more damage and was more reliable

      Cursed Beam.
      Cursed beam paired with demonic staff and curse staff feels good to play
      you get insane damage every 10 seconds which applies decent pressure out damaging Reg bow and fire staff when combo is done correctly
      people would not expect such damage from cursed.
      Skill is balanced

      Fire staff Line
      Infernal staff
      Currently Too strong in 2v2 from guildmate and forums feedback
      Combo this with fire artillery and there is too much damage going out with the target being unable to fight back most of the time
      combo is so strong it deletes Holy healers with them unable to heal at all
      Suggest Removing the silence or making main target immune to burning ground silence

      Sorry for letting this make it to live without more testing on this in more cases

      Fire bolt
      Feels good and impactful. the damage buff increased fire DPS

      Flameblast VS Raging flare(fire ball) VS Fire wave
      Flame blast is a Strong W skill for mid range engagements. it is the Go to for Pure Dps
      Raging flare is the Range option. it is the choice for poke playstyle along side Q3
      Fire wave is a Flameblast but with more AOE and CC attached. it sees less play and only used as counter for certain matchups

      1h Fire staff
      Players are making this appear than usual with a high rate of missing. they tend to charge to full before releasing the skill
      i believe with time players will get better with this skill. as its a great skill at the moment after rework

      Holy Staff Line
      Smite
      Reasonable PVE spell. Have not seen much use in PvP cases. Unable to give any more feedback then this

      Holy line is mostly unchanged with many quality of life buffs

      Nature Staff Line
      Been seeing a rise in Nature staff DPS. with thorns and bramble seed. they have found moderate success

      Rejuvenating flower
      High skill cap skill. Insane burst healing with strong Healing over time
      Unfriendly to mobile players due to the Finnese required but its a strong and balanced skill for managing flowers

      Thorn Growth.
      Doing Less DPS than expected because players are spamming AoE slow and not consuming thorn stacks.
      The few that Use Thorn stacks deal reasonable damage but complain they are not as mobile as Hit and run builds.
      Compare to immobile fire and curse i consider this balanced

      Bramble seed
      In Crystal arena HEALERS are taking bramble seed W skill and playing DPS even though they are HEALER
      In open world and corrupted dungeons they are balanced as a high skill high damage.
      my worries about this skill was soothed but as player gain more practice with this skill it would reach its potential

      Revitalize
      Very mana hungry when cast on other players. max of 5 casts before running out of mana
      Mana neutral when cast on self. but easily interuptable
      Balanced skill

      Great nature.
      Currently strong in 1v1 weak everywhere else
      Cooldown very low making the weapon more tanky then expected

      Swords
      Dual sword
      Very strong at the moment. being able to keep 3 stacks meaning never having lower E dps than other swords
      Recommend reverting the E not consuming charges and apply a 30% increase move speed if skill HIT with E skill
      @Trial_hard was right on this one. they are very strong

      War gloves
      Spiked gauntlets
      Seen less of this weapon ever since the nerf.

      Raven strike
      Still viable in ZvZ

      Corrupted dungeon Healing reduction
      It is doing their job correctly
      my fear that healers in corrupteds would be too strong is resolved.
      The healing is still at 100% in other content but having more than 1 player fixes that


      Author's Take away

      Feel free to give your opinion on your feelings about the new patch balances and how other weapons feel in comparison
      because lets face it Even i can miss some interactions and balances where i feel its ok but others feel its too over powered or under powered

      I hope this thread would take off so we can get the devs to balance the weapon lines again as soon as possible.
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • changes that are missing in my opinion and have been for a very long time are

      mage cowl - a rework, a silly item that negates so many counters just because it only takes one auto attack to deal massive damage

      bloodletter - 40% execution is a joke with the current state of the game.

      no response/low amount to DOT's - I would add self purge to mage robe, all negative effects like dot's,silence,slow disappear not stun's and heavy CC.

      Q3 holy - I still don't understand why it doesn't scale with the amount of people hit.

      curse beam - seems to have a bit too low cd, i would suggest 15sec.

      desecrate - I would remove 1 stack due to the buff to bomb and demonic E

      1h fire - I would see scale with cast speed, anything can block it, for this reflect would be the perfect response.

      infernal staff - total failure, silence should be completely removed, fire arti 10&5% less damage in phase 1 and 2, but 10% more than now in phase 3.

      Mist piercer - i like the change, weapon is not clunky when playing with scholar robe.

      Gloves - overall too much damage combined with the fact that 90% of spells have displacement and guarantee a hit.

      1h holy - I like it, strong burst heal with the cost of mobility.

      harpoon - I would remove it from the W pool and add the second part to heron spear, reusing it pulls the target, increases CD but target will lose the stun effect.

      Nature - I like the new Q3.

      Morning Star - Silly weapon that has no risk = reward, perfect synergy with Q silence, I would only remove the effect after channeling.

      Auto targeting - I don't quite understand why the game automatically re-targets when you leave invisibility. invisibility should break targeting.

      pre-stacking needs to disappear from CD..

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Quagga ().

    • Curse: hit and run passive change was horrible in fear of a kite q. Now curse is not competitive any more in solo, because u cannot chase assuming similar boots.

      The hit delay on top is making it even more clunky.

      The rest of curse is okay.

      Fire: infernal E in combo with hard q is super OP.

      Holy: everything but hallowfall too weak in solo. Hallowfall balanced via Mana.

      Nature: the dots q are too slow to place for a kite build. While you cast your q with the 3 seconds rule it cancels itself while you cast it. Nature can fight vs poke builds but has zero chance vs full damage builds like sword or spear or fire.
      Kiting doesn't really work as your cast & place time is too slow. Everything with some mobility will force fight you, and for force fight you Lack damage and / or heal.

      On top i filtered murderer and the Killboards for "moderate success of Nature" one of the playtester mentioned.. There is nothing to find. Nature is still dead regarding solo kills.

      Even if you manage to get upper hand in a fight, how you wanna kill? You need to place a Q below a fleeing enemy, while having no mobility, with the burden of a stand time..and then Autoattack it with the burden of an Auto AA Standtime, and that several times to finish something??

      Are you kidding me? Which weapon line has the complexity to put a circle below a fleeing enemy, with weird q cooldown mechanic and the need to successfull auto because your q damage is hot garbage..



      The first q, with 40 vs player that was in would have given nature a chance..but this is trash.
      And the Killboards reflect this hot garbage.

      Dual sword / Merc on E, it is now potentially the fastest attack speed on E build. It is like warp speed in CD, it is Super OP and on top a crazy rat weapon.

      My conclusion: Balance and Playtest did a super bad job. The goal of improved balance and an overwork is fail. But as i said it, 70% of the complete screw up was reported and discussed.

      Doing mistakes and being bad is one thing but not listening is another. But also this has a long history.

      We never had a more unbalanced and broken game as this..

      The best ATM is the spear thing see Fakturka video that lets you stick on a runner and hit through entire CD without chasing. Fakturka lost in this 'remote kill' an 8.3 set while 5 k people watched..

      Edit1: after a lot of trys I have a nature build that works vs axe, bow & infernal vs the average player.. it is a noob farm build, but surprisingly there are a lot of noobs..

      PM if someone need...i might share

      Edit 2. The outcry of me slaughter infernal noob is already on Reddit..and they call for heal nerv.. unfortunately ..heal is not the key nor the power of the build

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Trial_hard ().

    • I have a ton of complaints...

      I play 3 things

      Fire
      Holy
      Engimatic

      One handed Fire: You have ruined one handed fire staff, its unplayable. for instance if i blink or delayed teleport it just automatically goes off cant aim, cant charge, it jsut shoots at whatever direction you were previously facing. GOOD JOB SBI, thanks for phoning it in!

      Infernal staff: yeah it is probably the best we have right now, it has some uses, so you Retroman should immediately nerf it, because we all know your unbalancing ass will.

      WildFire: Its the same hasn't changed at all

      Brimstone: Unchanged

      Great Fire: i havent had the chance to play great fire yet.... but it doesn't seem to be changed... honestly after the crap you realeased today Im glad...

      Blazing: Unchanged

      HOLY:

      Ive only
      had the chance to play Redemption so far. but my complaint here is the animations

      the Healing animation for Q1 if just fucking terrible. I want the old animations back! just fucking terrible!

      Other Complaints:

      Nature stacks are TO BRIGHT, you get a 5 man team with full stacks all you see is Neon Green TONE IT DOWN.

      Crystal Arena:
      I like the Ranked portion, the rewards are fucking terrible, great t2 & t3 tomes, all untradeable. What is up with everything new you put in the game is untradeable? This used to be a Sandbox game, but for the last 2 years you've done nothing but tae the damned Sand out of the Box. IT SHOULD ALL BE TRADEABLE/SELLABLE/LoOTABLE.... WHAT THE HELL????

      Crystal League map sucks ass, in crystal arena all people to is run around randomly trying to get Stones no fighting anymore just running fucking around. I HATE it, I would have been happier if you had just made the old map ranked and been done with it, BUT NOOO, you have to do whatever you think you can to make Crystal League More playable... How aBOUT changing the fucking Map again?

      HOW DO WE TURN OFF THE BIG BLACK BOXES WHENEVER YOU TOUCH A ZONE DOOR? I DONT NEED A GIANT BLACK BOX EVERY TIME I WANT TO GO TO AN EXIT. I CAN READ A DAMNED MAP.

      mostly what Ive seen is all the animations are VERY slow, and then after the animations then, THEN; you finally get your cast time. I hate large Swaths of what you did in this update. It is clear to see your all working from home ad phoning this shit in. Im very dissatisfied.

      i WOULD ENJOY THE CHANGES IF ANY WERE REALLY GOOD, BUT ALL KNOW RETROMAN WILL NERF THE SHIT OUT OF EVERYTHING IN A MONTH, BECAUSE ITS BEEN 4 YEARS AND YOU HAVE YET TO BALANCE ANY FUCKING THING IN THIS GAME. ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS JUST ADD A TON OF SLOWS TO EVERYTHING, YOU SPED UP MELEE TO THE POINT NOBODY CAN DEFEND OR GET AWAY, AND SLOWED DOWN RANGED ON EVERYTHING, CANT GET AWAY, SLOW ASS CASTING (mostly due to your new animations I think)

      Maybe it is time Y'all get back in the office again, this working from home crap isn't working for you very well.
      i'm so pissed with every change ive seen. you literally fuck everything you change up....
    • And a hint, why u potentially just get medium to low skill playtester..

      If u look at the personal info you have to share to get an unpaid job to improve a game for a balance team that is off table, not many want to expose themselves for free..

      Lower the data you want from people for a unpaid job then maybe you get a Playtest team that knows what it's doing

      Or

      Simple play and get good at your own game
    • I only play fire and had the opportunity to play Dawnsong and Infernal today. With Infernal in RZ FW bandits I loved it against mobs as I did notice an improvement with the new fire bolt. One issue I had was that the mobs side by side didn't appear to take AoE damage so I miss the AoE of the old Infernal a bit. I then quickly died when an enemy blob came and one of their 1400+ IP bows targeted me. I tried to run away, use the Scholar Cowl shield, but their attack finished me all the same. They had a lot of DPS with great food. So I didn't have time to experience it in an actual fight worth gear. The new animations were very distracting, especially when I used the Scholar Robe to speed up the Q. It was a lot of jerking on the screen bringing my attention to it.

      Later in the YZ FW, a big Fort Sterling blob paid a visit to us and I could try the Dawnsong there. It was an awesome fight like we used to have. They stuck around for 30+ minutes. A couple of times I got KOed by their reflect. The Fire Artillery felt good but it was too chaotic to nail them with more attacks. I went down perhaps about 8 times in total while I tried to keep my distance from their front-line.

      In the Crystal Arena I started it with the Dawnsong but it felt bad. I switched it to the Infernal and things improved. I didn't KO too many of them, but eventually managed to get my 3 daily wins with a 37% win rate. I didn't have experience in this setup and didn't even know what mount to use. Infernal felt good and the combo of trying to use the E and follow it up with the Fire Artillery was definitely enticing. Healers did pay attention to it. Still, being on cloth armor meant that I went down quite a bit as well.

      Being able to actually cast spells without failing so much meant a lot.

      Edit: Forgot to mention that I had to reduce the sound effects a bit because it was too loud in the YZ FW outpost capping. Some of the new sounds are too distracting as well.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by enEstava ().

    • @Quagga
      Mage cowl and blood letter has its own Long standing Issues. this also includes the force field knock back

      DOTs is a very back and forth issue on one hand we have merc jacket and on the other we have things like armor of valor and great nature

      Q3 holy removed scale with ppl hit because it was stronger than Q1.
      Q1 is reserved for single target but if aoe heal is stronger than Q1 then there would be no point in Q1 existing

      1h fire once players get used to new cancel mechanic then its better than old 1h fire. let the player base figure out weather its worth channeling longer time or instant release at 0.5 sec

      Infernal staff + fire arti. I am sorry this combo went under my radar and was released as it is
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • @Legal @AIEQ

      Infernal fire staff went under my radar Sorry

      when i play tested it in test realm it was fine against most builds
      as long as you keep moving or dont rely on cast time to do an impact
      (i am bow main so silence does not affect me as much)
      and in open world your teammates peel and defend for you and you have space to run

      i did not take into account instanced content such as hellgate 2v2 and crystal arena
      with super high coordinated teams
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • @Trial_hard
      Curse: hit and run passive
      this is an unfair nerf. SBI pls revert

      Fire: infernal. this went under my radar. as i thought it was fine when i tested in test server

      Holy: you are trying to make DPS holy viable for solo. same for nature. here i am too tired to fight you about it.

      Nature: i mention "Moderate success" and not META to the point like hallowfall meta was.
      and in your Edit 1 you said it kills alot of noobs and
      Edit 2 you even quoted beating infernal noob to the point they call you out on heals
      So moderate success holds true as it cannot beat the likes of trinity, 1h spear, sword but does evenly vs Dot builds.
      therefore i standby by opinion that Throns Aoe damage Q cut in half from 40 to 20 base damage was the right call

      Dual sword: too mobile too much damage. should revert to consume stacks but add 30%+ move speed if hit

      My response to your conclusion: i did tell you in one of the post that we are the play testers for the game. if we do not catch this over/under tuned items before live then the normal player base would come in here and blame SBI about it

      Dont blame devs for not play testing fully when we the community are the play testers.
      lets face it they dont have test player like the mega AAA gaming company so we as community have to step up
      we had a whole 3 weeks to tell the devs what was broken or not
      and u and me were bickering about nature the whole time
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 2 times, last by The_Support_God ().

    • @Saabotage

      1h fire new animation and interactions needs time to get used to.
      turning speed of channel could be improved.
      also i see players do not make used of 0.5 sec cast and forget. they tend to try to full charge it resulting in alot of misses

      infernal staff: Sorry this got pass Test realm. we are going to go through another episode of wild fire.

      great fire: now plays like a bow poke build but without the mobility of frost shot

      Healing animation: I think its a matter of taste. Q1 heal animation too long in my opinion

      Nature: Neon green very bright. helps with manage stacks but sometimes can get irritating

      Crystal Arena: Total Monkey FEST. we have DPS healers. Running builds, and 0 Coordination between players. back to the old League of legend days
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • I was waiting until I tried it out to comment on cursed changes

      Vile Curse Hit delay feels awful compared with before if someone could explain why this was necessary that would be great.

      Cursed Tar 10% slow is not enough to really justify using this skill, slow missle speed and has cast time so I’ll probably just stick with Q1 which sucks, stuck with single target short range no mobility, and buildup of stacks to deal good damage meanwhile gloves exist.

      still stuck with desecrate for solo pvp to catch anyone.

      Q2 missle speed still too slow to use for anyone who will run away from you.

      cursed beam change is very good

      grudge change I have yet to try out. But from the looks of it not that great.

      Demonic Staff changes makes for another good pvp choice which is nice.

      Cursed Skull visual update not a big fan the horns are huge on the skull looks kinda goofy I preferred the old.

      also I hate the moving AOEs would have been cool to see a rework of this into maybe an aura or something instead.

      Lifecurse, 1h Curse, Great curse, Demonic staff visual updates are great.
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      Swords
      Dual sword
      Very strong at the moment. being able to keep 3 stacks meaning never having lower E dps than other swords
      Recommend reverting the E not consuming charges and apply a 30% increase move speed if skill HIT with E skill
      @Trial_hard was right on this one. they are very strong
      What, can you please let ppl have fun with some sword? This dual sword dmg is not that high and still Any dagger can be better for rat, dps, and move arround x10 over this dual sword.

      Dual Sword dmg is pretty low compared to other weps... Only 8.3 master piece can max hit 800 dmg with E imagine the lower tier. They can move fast arround and? Whats the problem? Mace- Dagger- Spears and others have special things why this sword cant?

      Stop complaining for everything on this forum i see you...
    • @MlghtySalmon
      Vile curse hit delay does not feel as impactful as damage still the same.
      but i can see where the frustration is

      cursed tar 10% not enough. maybe increase it to 20%

      Q2 missile speed is purposely made like that

      other changes are nice as you stated

      Thanks for feedback
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build