Holy & Nature are not working properly

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    • Holy & Nature are not working properly

      Take a holy - use smite

      Take a Trinity or Pike on full damage stand in all smite

      Trade - Trinity / pike wins with more than 40% life left

      Same example

      Use nature, stand for demonstration purpose always inside the Thorns AOE and take all Auto AA. Nature dies with 45% / 60% life left on pike/Trinity.

      Nature and Holy have no mobility, they have low attack range. Spear, bow, fire, frost, sword will stay on target.

      With this state and results the rework is FAIL


      And that's not taking the heal reduction of certain game modes into account.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Trial_hard ().

    • Finnaly someone wants to take the first step into explaining why nature and holy is not broken
      bring out the numbers, builds, and ect
      i am waiting for your PROPER explanation
      to try and prove me wrong

      and play holy and nature like a kite build not standing like it can tank everything
      it would not get full value of Heals that way when exchanging blow for blow

      its like asking warbow/ badon to fight a sword / claymore head on

      take warbow and badon and ask it to trade blow for bow against nature/holy
      i want to see the results
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().

    • compare kite build to kite build

      and not trinity / pike / reg bow/ fire/frost which rely on brawling

      if bow trinity and fire actualy lost to nature/smite with only 1 dps skill then something is wrong and you know it
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      compare kite build to kite build

      and not trinity / pike / reg bow/ fire/frost which rely on brawling

      if bow trinity and fire actualy lost to nature/smite with only 1 dps skill then something is wrong and you know it
      then explain me MR. playtest and consultant of balance team, how you KITE with Holy.

      And don't come with broken hallowfall.

      The only thing you can do with holy is trade..

    • you never play against a arcane double magic shock before?

      same play style

      holy is underpowered and i can agree to and extent so maybe buff the aoe for Q

      its nature i am worried about.
      On live before the 50% damage nerf thorns with auto can fight evenly already
      the problem comes when you add upfront damage, zone control and CC into the skill
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      you never play against a arcane double magic shock before?

      same play style

      holy is underpowered and i can agree to and extent so maybe buff the aoe for Q

      its nature i am worried about.
      On live before the 50% damage nerf thorns with auto can fight evenly already
      the problem comes when you add upfront damage, zone control and CC into the skill
      then let me explain to MR Playtest why arcane double shock is an extremely bad pick explaining why holy is ok:

      1) the AOE of Arcane is bigger
      2) the AOE has Silence which is huge because this interrupts and makes skill usage impossible
      3) the mimicry contributes to passive resistance cast
      4) It does 20% more damage

      And the result is, nobody plays it, current murder shows best arcane on rank 3000

      That's why I is really difficult to take your competence serious in regards to pvp

      And now talk about nature q slow danger..

      There is a better AOE slow, no Casttime instant, slows for 50% with passive same cooldown. It is the traps from Xbow.

      This skill would in your theory be insane for kiting because it is AOE, it is instant, it is similar cooldown and it slows longer for 4 seconds even...

      And do you know what? Nobody uses it..

      And now you may guess why..

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Trial_hard ().

    • it does not last on the ground dealing huge amounts of damage and can be cast 3 times in a row
      and also crossbow while does not have any mobility does not heal.

      i put healing, CC and mobility under the same power budget

      if you have one or the other then something have to go and often times its Damage. SBI has done this many times in the past

      1h mace and tomb hammer has less damage (1h mace exist before nerfs) even demon cape was not spared
      hallow fall had healing and mobility before it got nerfed 3 times in a row. make it 4 cause anti damage rules

      so while Holy Q need a AoE buff
      nature thorns has the AoE, area denial , slows (CC), damage (after nerfs its now reasonable damage)

      while we are talking about AoE buffs Ray of light from bow tree also need a buff
      it has a 3m radius not that big from Holy 2.5m
      but has a huge delay of almost 1 second before it lands. if i can land that skill i dont see why arcane and holy cannot land their skill
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

    • fareuei wrote:

      dont know why u guys are so worried about healers doing damage.
      just give the old thorns W to druid, with instant cast and larger sprea area. it'll be fine trust. wouldn't even be able to face a trinity spear in a brawl match. wtf
      everyone likes this proposal & the code is already there.

      Current implementan of smite and thorns does neither meet the expectations of people that want healer to be able to play solo pvp and on top it doesn't meet expectations of people that are afraid of healers in solo play..

      So obviously nobody is happy, that's why this is an excellent proposal..

    • fareuei wrote:

      Actually druid ia a Hunter weapon and should be a viable dps.
      But more like a kite dps. U shouldnt be able to facetank a trinity spear ir any turret build like u mentioned
      i couldn't agree more with you.

      But do you know what the problem is?

      Most kite builds have decent mobility like a frost bow in combination with knock back of q to stay on distance..
      Nature has exactly zero mobility, the only kite tool is new 25% slow on thorns.
      Take as example swords, e.g. dual swords, it will jump on you and stay on target, and even if u manage 25% slow, it will still stay on target cause it has permanent 36% mobility if not stupid...

      2.5 m circle is nothing in OW the people will just walk around it...

      Worse is holy, it has no damage and no cc..so whelp!!

    • he does not understand that
      i have been trying to tell him that since a while back

      mobility and heal have the same power budget. having both is like having CC and High Damage at the same time

      he still thinks that heal -30% in CD or 0% in Openworld is enough to counter this broken playstyle
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      he does not understand that
      i have been trying to tell him that since a while back

      mobility and heal have the same power budget. having both is like having CC and High Damage at the same time

      he still thinks that heal -30% in CD or 0% in Openworld is enough to counter this broken playstyle
      Well, you think that a Badon poke from far distance should win vs heal. But if far distance all 30 second poke from offscreen can outdps heal, then heal is unplayable..cause every real DPS that goes in would completely obliterate the heal then

      Anyway - i already said it, game is in the state for nature and holy as people with extrem low pvp skill consult and get attention for whatever reason.

    • If every real DPS could go in and obliterate nature i would not be making this posts in the first place

      this is not just about badon and warbow
      its about every immobile build and build that cannot deal enough damage

      old badon with double merc jacket has a long ass cooldown for each merc jacket use
      and you need to hit your target to heal

      nature can cast heals when ever he likes while on the run
      this makes any Build with 0 mobility skills lose vs kite nature, aka bolt casters, curse, fire if these builds dont find a way to close the gap or blow them up like one shot builds
      then it also counters poke builds with the healing because they cant do enough damage aka warbow, badon

      this leaves one shot builds and brawler builds
      Leaving one shot builds we have Swords and spear line from melee class and regbow and frost from ranged
      here is the thing if you let up the pressure even 1 second nature just gets free heals before you can even heal
      why? because they decide to put 3 casts and 25% slow a 3 sec skill which lasts for 4 seconds after cast

      if you think reset meta was bad then reset on the run is worst.
      this is why hallowfall meta with Q heal spam was so toxic because despite how low damage they had you can not kill them
      remove heal from Q and nature old thorns still did absurd amounts of damage despite healing nerf
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      If every real DPS could go in and obliterate nature i would not be making this posts in the first place

      this is not just about badon and warbow
      its about every immobile build and build that cannot deal enough damage

      old badon with double merc jacket has a long ass cooldown for each merc jacket use
      and you need to hit your target to heal

      nature can cast heals when ever he likes while on the run
      this makes any Build with 0 mobility skills lose vs kite nature, aka bolt casters, curse, fire if these builds dont find a way to close the gap or blow them up like one shot builds
      then it also counters poke builds with the healing because they cant do enough damage aka warbow, badon

      this leaves one shot builds and brawler builds
      Leaving one shot builds we have Swords and spear line from melee class and regbow and frost from ranged
      here is the thing if you let up the pressure even 1 second nature just gets free heals before you can even heal
      why? because they decide to put 3 casts and 25% slow a 3 sec skill which lasts for 4 seconds after cast

      if you think reset meta was bad then reset on the run is worst.
      this is why hallowfall meta with Q heal spam was so toxic because despite how low damage they had you can not kill them
      remove heal from Q and nature old thorns still did absurd amounts of damage despite healing nerf
      okay let's test your talk..

      We take your beloved great nature...

      Now Mr. Playtest and Retro consultant - how much does it heal on the run?

      Or take druid - how much does it heal on the run - per 30 secs?

      Or one handed nature? How much?

      Any player with brain will boots in sync with nature, so in the second nature stands still, even zero mobility will be on target..

      So hint: the only mobility comes then from E..

      And that is zero for great nature on the run, that is 600 for druid under blessing on CD, and that is zero for one handed nature on 30 secs..

      Holy in fact has more heal, lifetouch is 2000 on E on 30 secs, holy is around 1200 in 30 secs, great holy is around 1800 in 30 secs..

      Unfortunately holy is trash in CD even with that heal output, as for example lifetouch even with the big heal needs channel and more or less eats a huge amount of the healed life..

      But it will be easy to determine..

      I bet, no holy on top 100 except some single hallowfall after 2 weeks after release.

      On top i bet 20 dual swords in top 100 2 weeks after release..