Pinned Balance Changes - Into The Fray

    • you play as if players would stand still and cast revitalize while eating damage

      you are just playing a different game than me seriously

      in your other threads you even compare nature face to face with the likes of trinity, bow and curse in a face to face brawl
      and eat every single skill brawlers can throw at you.

      who wants to fight bow or trinity in their strongest point

      while i on the other hand keep trying to tell you through the thick skull of yours that nature plays like a poke build
      slap some CC, area of denial and damage
      and it would be overloaded. something has to GO
      and that SOMETHING HAS TO BE DAMAGE

      It was done for 1h mace(less cc less damage), it was done for hallowfall (removing resistance buff), it was done for hammers (reduce demon cape and CC duration), it was done for bligh staff (remove slow area on E),
      so why nature cannot have less damage when it has stronger healing and new CC skills?
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 3 times, last by The_Support_God ().

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      you play as if players would stand still and cast revitalize while eating damage

      you are just playing a different game than me seriously

      in your other threads you even compare nature face to face with the likes of trinity, bow and curse in a face to face brawl
      and eat every single skill brawlers can throw at you.

      who wants to fight bow or trinity in their strongest point

      while i on the other hand keep trying to tell you through the thick skull of yours that nature plays like a poke build
      slap some CC, area of denial and damage
      and it would be overloaded. something has to GO
      and that SOMETHING HAS TO BE DAMAGE

      It was done for 1h mace(less cc less damage), it was done for hallowfall (removing resistance buff), it was done for hammers (reduce demon cape and CC duration), it was done for bligh staff (remove slow area on E),
      so why nature cannot have less damage when it has stronger healing and new CC skills?
      YOu as a wanna be top 1000 player tell the top 100 and better player with almost every weapon how pvp works - got it..

      I am out of this discussion

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Trial_hard ().

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      you play as if players would stand still and cast revitalize while eating damage

      you are just playing a different game than me seriously

      in your other threads you even compare nature face to face with the likes of trinity, bow and curse in a face to face brawl
      and eat every single skill brawlers can throw at you.

      who wants to fight bow or trinity in their strongest point

      while i on the other hand keep trying to tell you through the thick skull of yours that nature plays like a poke build
      slap some CC, area of denial and damage
      and it would be overloaded. something has to GO
      and that SOMETHING HAS TO BE DAMAGE

      It was done for 1h mace(less cc less damage), it was done for hallowfall (removing resistance buff), it was done for hammers (reduce demon cape and CC duration), it was done for bligh staff (remove slow area on E),
      so why nature cannot have less damage when it has stronger healing and new CC skills?

      Bruh wdym? Have you actually tried the current Thorns? rn the only way you will probably kill ANYONE with that skill is perhaps if you bore them to death, what they introduced with the first iteration of Thorns in the Into Fray Update was probably perfect as it was, but because of people like you we have to deal with this boring skill that poses no threat and that everyone can just run away from lmao, thanks a lot for that man. I'm sure the way this weapon will play out in openworld is you attack some bloodletter solo, the fight lasts 10,000 hours if he wins he kills you, if you win he E's away, makes a few Q's away and then mounts up. New thorns may be good in corrupteds where people are forced to fight in somewhat tiny spaces, but in openworld this skill is useless tbvh.
    • Fine go ahead say all you want

      you cant even properly show me numbers on why nature or holy is not broken
      or even prove to me nature vs kite build dps check
      and even compare nature to full dps builds which are suppose to have insane dps when standing still like trinity or reg bow without even kiting them


      at the end of the day if another hallowfall meta comes around dont say i did not warn you
      we already have people complain about pre stackers sword and trinity being OP i dont need another group of players complaining healing staff OP


      it would be so much easier if healing staffs just have healing and moderate PvE damage to aid solo leveling
      instead of making it strong for every content

      because all i heard is people saying they need Damage on a nature just because they dont have a damage dealing E
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().

    • @Heupeller

      so you blame me for making the skill trash?

      then let me ask you this

      what weapon line counters nature in a 1v1 environment open world. assuming you are chasing a nature player / or chasing your target

      we have purge for reg bow, frost players
      we have mobility as weaknesses for fire, curse, crossbow
      we have less damage for mace and hammer
      poke builds traditonaly have hard to hit skill shots aka warbow E, ray of light, fire Q3, frost E (low damage, high cooldown)
      then we have prestacking issues with swords
      one shot builds like daggers and pike have to sacrifice all defensives for offensive gear
      and all of the above does not heal up when damage taken

      what would nature 's weakness fall under?
      i dare you to name the weakness nature staff should have.

      name the weakness it should have and prove it why nature has or should have that weakness only then i would shut up about this topic

      FYI my answer is "Less damage" is the conclusion i have arrived at
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • Cursed tar is underpowered.
      10% slow is not enough.

      infact i think that curse should have the 25% slow nature has

      a single cast with projectile travel time.

      unlike nature which can cast 3 times and has 0 projectile travel time
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • Quagga wrote:

      Reef wrote:

      Quagga wrote:

      axe,crossbow,dagger..
      dude you cant chase anyone on crossbow... especially in OW.FYI in OW there are gankers, small scale, ZVZ and pushers on BL in dungeons... no 1v1 lol.
      Who cares? He asked in general what can kill nature, and I gave him an answer.
      with the kind of logic you're using, doubleblade is unkillable LMAO
      on top everything with a purge kills a Gnature...

      In kontrary if a reg bow gets purged, it uses frost to reset. If a Gnature is purged, it is just dead because ZERO Mobility and no heal ...

      If a GNATURE E, just go 4 secs out of the way, then it is dead, cause zero heal ..

      And if someone is stupid enough to bring the channeled W heal - it is off at first scratch damage..

      That's why Nature is still unplayable in PvP and this update is a waste of resources so far
    • 4 seconds unable to do damage or nature heals

      then channel W while Gnature E is up guaranty heal with W skill unless they have CC

      purge G nature E with fiend cowl. G nature pop boots and wait for 15 second skill to come back up before reengaging

      by that time you are down boots ,purge or other offensive skill
      or better yet you choose not to chase a G nature

      then fight him when again without purge or wait a whole 40 seconds + to get back purge again

      i realy love your assumption that you can out rotate 15 sec E skill and 7 sec W skill
      other than one shot builds aka daggers, pike and ect brawler builds cannot kill a target under 10 seconds

      go ahead pls say that nature is unplayable and is weak vs ect and ect until you look at the cooldowns
      stop thinking everthing will fight you head on. nature is a kite build

      what part of kite build do you not understand? of you just dont know what hallowfall meta means?

      hallowfall meta means heal and run while use mage cowl to auto attack once
      it is not because you are using hallow fall weapon

      if warbow and badon was not bad enough for you then imagine warbow and badon using multi shot and ray of light during the time period when merc jacket still proc on DOT damage but the cooldown of merc jacket was 15 seconds instead of 1 minute.

      thats is what nature is

      a Badon with a 15 second merc jacket
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().

    • I dont know how you are getting so bad results with nature
      when i can get good results of 60-70% win rate with nature with kite build

      so just leave it as it is nature staff Thorns Q as it is
      let the community show the true win rate when it goes live with current numbers

      because it seems that this talk wont end with any of us winning because you are unable to replicate the results i get
      when you are face tanking trinity spear and reg bow using those as your test subjects
      instead of testing it vs kite builds
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • Hi everyone, so i have tried a lot of the changes to the curse staffs and nature staffs, and i believe that what worries everyone is to be able to use this weapons wherever we want, i mean, i would love to see more variety everywhere.
      What i see is that the weapon (any weapon) by itself should be able to have high mobility and usually high burst dmg or kitting potential with some or high cc, Nature staff and Cursed staff they dont work in OW unless you are in a group, and they dont work in CD (Nature like at all) unless you choose the high burst dmg of the skull, NOW these changes are amazing to solve that, they were lacking the cc, the new Tar for curse and Q + W of nature are a perfect solution.

      NATURE its good at this point, for the DEVS and i think all of us we well need to wait till it gets released to check if there is anything actually broken on this build, my opinion now you can KITE with nature sacrificing heals for DMG and CC, against this build its necessary to have some sort of mobility to be able to catch up, the nature user will have to think smart as in solo will have to position itself really good and use AA whenever its good not all the time this will kill the nature. So i think its good.

      CURSE Changes to W spells are really good, now i see people using them for different activities, so those are good to go, The most interesting one, new Q tar is lacking something, and i think the best way to compare cc in staffs is the Burning wall in fire, that W is the best cc spell in magic for sure, the only reason is because when you use it it will take at least a couple of seconds to reach the fire user again, ( carving sword and a W counter attack of gloves are a few exceptions) but even if this new Q for curse its a very welcome and need it spell what it lacks is that still does not give the same feeling of kiting as the new nature build has, as the fire W wall, as the W+ any frost E.

      The only good kitting option by this point and its really mana hungry is the new E that fears from curse, it helps a lot, so it will be a good option, but if there is no change, it will be the only option, besides that one handed curse ganker the we all see from time to time, but he or she wont change a single thing of his gameplay.

      SO The new Tar Q should have either a little bit more slow, meaby on hit ( like the tar cover you all up ) or DMG on hit, like the dmg of one hit of the boomerang.

      Nature, i need to see an small scale because 1v1 you just need a purge or some mobility and think just a little smart to win against the new nature, but i think that a new kind of support may come, a healer with cc for small scale figths, i dont know if this will have an impact in big zvz even, i dont know, thats why we need to give this to the real server then check, and be aware because the actual server will find a way to break it ( like they did with wargloves E, infinite CC knockup, really funny, kind of hard to pull of but soooooo brokeeeeenn )

      There is people asking for an slow on Q fire staff, i have been able to kite a bear paws for the infinity of time without wasting that much mana only using a Bop! from your cloth helmet and you fire wall, they get close, you Bop! em, they get close again you use W, and use boots around there, whenever they get close again if you kite correctly you should have Bop! again, i mean i think it good as it is.

      Love you all
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      @Heupeller

      so you blame me for making the skill trash?

      then let me ask you this

      what weapon line counters nature in a 1v1 environment open world. assuming you are chasing a nature player / or chasing your target

      we have purge for reg bow, frost players
      we have mobility as weaknesses for fire, curse, crossbow
      we have less damage for mace and hammer
      poke builds traditonaly have hard to hit skill shots aka warbow E, ray of light, fire Q3, frost E (low damage, high cooldown)
      then we have prestacking issues with swords
      one shot builds like daggers and pike have to sacrifice all defensives for offensive gear
      and all of the above does not heal up when damage taken

      what would nature 's weakness fall under?
      i dare you to name the weakness nature staff should have.

      name the weakness it should have and prove it why nature has or should have that weakness only then i would shut up about this topic

      FYI my answer is "Less damage" is the conclusion i have arrived at

      Maybe the fact that Nature falls into the category of having 0 actual mobility? the only one with a shred of mobility is blight, and blight is a channel where you can't do anything for the entire duration except reset or once again, bore your opponent to death. Therefore, they probably thought of the slow on the new thorns to counteract this. All the weapons you mentioned have their strengths. The strength of nature IS the fact that you can heal up. But when the damage is that absurdly low, it is like, what is the point? Anything with burst + purge wins, cus when you are attempting to heal, you aren't doing dmg, and when you are doing dmg you aren't healing. I've seen curses that do way more dmg and have more sustain than even nature staffs, the casting of the thorns itself is a tad awkward, many, many many things can run away from you and you sure as hell aren't stopping them with flippin thorns lmao, those in themselves are very much weaknesses to me. At its first iteration on the test server, it was very strong, not broken (even though most people there are on 8.3 full specs with 7.3/8.3 food). But I digress. Tbh, you will not look at this as what's best for the tree itself. I'm sure you are even happy with how thorns is on the live game, nice and useless, but that's fine. I'm probably done replying.