Balance Changes - Into The Fray

    • Zumzat wrote:


      • Grudge (all Cursed Staffs)
        • Grudge hit effect delay: 1s -> 0s
        • The Grudge effect now stacks up on the ally every 0.5s
        • Each Auto Attack consumes all stacks
        • Grudge Stacks 0 / 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7
        • Damage 5 / 7 / 9 / 12 / 16 / 21 / 27 / 34
        • (Grudge tick damage before the rework = 8 )
        • This way Grudge triggers with all Attack Speed builds, but the damage is diminished if the attack interval is too fast.

      The ability feels kinda useless atm, since most of the weapons have sub 1s attack speed, the damage values are too low. I think scaling should be made with either 0.1 or 0.2s step, but 0.5 is way too high making the damage way too low.
      Legit, on the test realm with full 120 spec an 8.3 mp 1h cursed and a cryptcandle it was doing 27 damage an auto.

      27.
      Damage.
      An.
      Auto.


      Grudge is beyond useless now
    • Excellent work with the hammers; and finally the annoying natures will return, those that are impossible to kill. Unless you have a good ax on you
      :D <3 Gracias camaradas; les estaré esperando en el proximo video para contarles...una gran historia // :D <3 Thanks comrades; I'll be waiting for you in the next video to tell you... a great story
    • Thanks for the feedback.

      We already made the following adjustments, these are mainly aimed at keeping the Self Sustaining Healer and new endless kiting builds with magic staffs in check in Corrupted Dungeons:

      • Cursed Tar
        • Removed slow
        • Casttime 0s -> 0.3s
      • Curse Passive Hit and Run
        • activates after every 4 -> 6 Casts
      • Thorn Growth
        • Area Damage 40 -> 10 (vs. players)
        • Area Damage 40 -> 30 (vs. mobs)
      • Rejuvenating Flower
        • Grow time 3s -> 2.5s
        • Throwing a level 1 flower now causes a 2s cooldown (This is to prevent spam casting low power flowers without cooldown)
      • Holy & Nature:
        • Self Healing Sickness Duration: 60s -> 120s
      • Corrupted Dungeons:
        • Casting any Holy- or Nature Q-slot Healing spell inside a corrupted dungeons, reduces the caster's damage by 50% for 60s


      We are still going through more of the other feedback and I'll post more updates later.

      Cheers,
      Retro
    • My lord and savior has responded.

      keep up the good work while i find more bugs for you and test balance changes extensively

      Also you can keep the slow on cursed tar the 10% slow is not as impactful since you added a cast time to the spell
      10% slow in a small 2.5 m area is about as powerful as a spear Q1
      not overly strong but good enough to make it worth the cast time

      the nature thorn growth slow reduce to 15 % from 25% to compensate for the amount of AoE you can cover by placing 3 in quick succession
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().

    • Waiting for that thorn growth change that removes slow, makes it a single cast with 1.5s cast time, and only damages mobs, because people somehow can not let nature deal any sort of respectable damage in line with other weapon trees, using the excuse "its a healing weapon" thinking it stands any sort of ground in a sandbox game that advertises its variability of builds and ways you can play said builds. I mean sure, it does deal a lot of damage, but getting it to the point it you're better off running than standing your ground, you may as well just leave nature tree as it is on live at the moment...

      At least brambleseed was untouched, which gives me hope.
    • @Tabor
      curse nerf was undeserved it was fine the way it is
      as for nature the throns was way over tuned from the moment i saw it and tested it

      large AoE coverage, 25% CC slow, low cast time and super high Damage to compare with even fire staff

      @Glasses
      you do know brambleseed deals as much damage as a warbow E right? and it has knock up as well
      as well as a respectable 16 m range
      on a 10 second cooldown i might add

      The excuse that it is a healing weapon is used because against a warbow with mobility and play kite any damage you inflict stays on the war bow play forcing him to reset and try to outrun you with frost arrow
      nature can run backwards and place slowing areas while using heals on cooldown. this makes any damage inflicted reversable while on the run. the chaser would not have access to any heals what so ever while chasing the nature through the 25% slowing areas nature places
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • Retroman wrote:

      Thanks for the feedback.

      We already made the following adjustments, these are mainly aimed at keeping the Self Sustaining Healer and new endless kiting builds with magic staffs in check in Corrupted Dungeons:

      • Cursed Tar
        • Removed slow
        • Casttime 0s -> 0.3s
      • Curse Passive Hit and Run
        • activates after every 4 -> 6 Casts
      • Thorn Growth
        • Area Damage 40 -> 10 (vs. players)
        • Area Damage 40 -> 30 (vs. mobs)
      • Rejuvenating Flower
        • Grow time 3s -> 2.5s
        • Throwing a level 1 flower now causes a 2s cooldown (This is to prevent spam casting low power flowers without cooldown)
      • Holy & Nature:
        • Self Healing Sickness Duration: 60s -> 120s
      • Corrupted Dungeons:
        • Casting any Holy- or Nature Q-slot Healing spell inside a corrupted dungeons, reduces the caster's damage by 50% for 60s


      We are still going through more of the other feedback and I'll post more updates later.

      Cheers,
      Retro
      I can accept Thorn nerf damage ,but don't nerf slow and cast time , because this is hit on ground skills you can run out from there
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      @Glasses

      you do know brambleseed deals as much damage as a warbow E right? and it has knock up as well
      as well as a respectable 16 m range
      on a 10 second cooldown i might add

      The excuse that it is a healing weapon is used because against a warbow with mobility and play kite any damage you inflict stays on the war bow play forcing him to reset and try to outrun you with frost arrow
      nature can run backwards and place slowing areas while using heals on cooldown. this makes any damage inflicted reversable while on the run. the chaser would not have access to any heals what so ever while chasing the nature through the 25% slowing areas nature places
      It's also a very narrow linear spell, and the knockup is on the second damage tick, not instant like splitting slash, leaving room to completely avoid the burst damage. The cooldown I understand, could be increased to 15 for the sake of keeping in track with the rest offensive Ws of other trees.

      Said warbow can break crystals if it meets an opponent it cannot kill, that's their purpose. Also, -30% healing reduction inside CDs so the healing is going to be heavily hindered.
      There's also no "run backwards and place slowing areas" as those slowing areas have a cast time to drop, leaving you vulnerable if the opponent really wants to catch you.
      I'm not even going to go about open world as there's numerous variables for pvp there

      Edit1: Also warbow has 26m range on E, it's gonna be fine vs a 10m reach skill since that's how they play anyway

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Glasses ().

    • @Glasses
      be honest with me
      how often can you dodge a warbow E while chasing him?

      at least warbow E does not CC you when chasing him

      other Linear spells with CC have shorter range Longer cooldown and less damage then this skill
      damage range is about 750 unlike bramble seed 1k
      average range is 13 meters bramble has 16 meters
      average cooldown is 15 seconds bramble has 10 seconds
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      @Glasses
      be honest with me
      how often can you dodge a warbow E while chasing him?

      at least warbow E does not CC you when chasing him

      other Linear spells with CC have shorter range Longer cooldown and less damage then this skill
      damage range is about 750 unlike bramble seed 1k
      average range is 13 meters bramble has 16 meters
      average cooldown is 15 seconds bramble has 10 seconds
      On max range shooting, the warbow isn't SE/SW from me, 9 out of 10 times I can walk out of it due to its projectile speed being slow enough

      You give a lot of "average" numbers, but forget that not everything has to be within a pre set range of numbers, and I believe with this magic overhaul they're doing just that now.
      Shoot down everything in brambleseeds, no, on any skill to the "avg" ranges and congratulations, you got another generic skill! Just what we want, generic skills with different skins
    • And let me just add to this incase Retro does read it.

      Thorns dps is "insane" if the enemy is idle on top of all 3 pools of thorns. With this player damage reduction, it's not even going to be worth trying to use thorns to fight, but rather just as zoning tool while relying on others to do the work, assisting with bramble maybe.

      The slow is decent, gets reduced by CC resistance but the surface of thorns is only 2.5m, easily walkable, and I know this for a fact because of the numerous ranged pvp fights i've done, you literally can not keep someone in thorns by landing one on them, the slow is not as powerful as it sounds

      The damage, is insane if the person sits idle on top of all 3, i guess. If you fight someone with mobility you'll be getting more damage on you trying to land thorns to deal damage back, than by just running away, unless of course its a melee.
      Also funny how nature thorn gets its damage reduced but Holy Smite is still good to go. Big instant damage apparently is fine, but dealing big damage over time in a single spot is apparently wee bit too much.
    • You do know that skills with over 1k damage has their damage spread out
      aka old grudge, explosive arrow, fire artillary

      they have cast times or need to auto the target after

      also skills with more than 1k damage is normaly reserved for E skills
      there are very few W skills with more than 1k damage and even few on E spell on a 10 second cooldown

      name me another spell with 1k damage with 10 second cooldown in the game with has CC and is near instant cast, fire and forget
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • 8.3 great nature at 840/840 spec dealing 92 damage per thorn on a player, epitome of pain. Imagine lower tier and specs trying to fight, enemies can probably sit on thorns


      The_Support_God wrote:

      You do know that skills with over 1k damage has their damage spread out
      aka old grudge, explosive arrow, fire artillary

      they have cast times or need to auto the target after

      also skills with more than 1k damage is normaly reserved for E skills
      there are very few W skills with more than 1k damage and even few on E spell on a 10 second cooldown

      name me another spell with 1k damage with 10 second cooldown in the game with has CC and is near instant cast, fire and forget
      make it a channel or increase the CD, i'm agreeing lol. I'm just saying if you lower the damage it's just going to be a generic W and thus, probably unfit/not a good image considering it's the magic staff rework
    • 840/840 with flat 8
      Well when you put it that way where the new throns has 200 damage per 0.5 sec buffs auto attacks to deal an additionl 140 damage and slow target by 25% as well
      and can cast 3 near instantly?

      you might as well put burning field from fire tree with 250 damage and 0% slow and single cast to shame
      or even the new cursed tar which had 10% slow to shame as well

      tell me that when compared to this 2 skills pre change throns was not broken
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • Glasses wrote:

      8.3 great nature at 840/840 spec dealing 92 damage per thorn on a player, epitome of pain. Imagine lower tier and specs trying to fight, enemies can probably sit on thorns


      The_Support_God wrote:

      You do know that skills with over 1k damage has their damage spread out
      aka old grudge, explosive arrow, fire artillary

      they have cast times or need to auto the target after

      also skills with more than 1k damage is normaly reserved for E skills
      there are very few W skills with more than 1k damage and even few on E spell on a 10 second cooldown

      name me another spell with 1k damage with 10 second cooldown in the game with has CC and is near instant cast, fire and forget
      make it a channel or increase the CD, i'm agreeing lol. I'm just saying if you lower the damage it's just going to be a generic W and thus, probably unfit/not a good image considering it's the magic staff rework
      the point of play testing is not to make it generic or unfit/good image for magic staff rework
      the purpose of asking to play test and giving feed back is to make sure damage and utility values are balanced

      This is not league of legends where they balance the game every 2 weeks
      when the patch comes the next combat balance changes come 1 month or so down the line therefore DPS values have to be gotten right first GO
      if its weak then buffing it after is still acceptable but if its too strong on release it would wreck any sense of game balance

      it happened with wild fire, it happened with spiked gauntlets and it happened raven strike
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • You make it sound so great, i'm slowly getting convinced you either only fought vs melees who sat on 3 pools or never met a reflect build. I've been living on the test server past few days watching nature plays and a lot more, and its a guaranteed loss vs any sort of range if you play thorns. It even loses to holy with smite on it, which since its change now (50% less cd if you hit someone), its EVEN more damage than thorns, on top of being INSTANT rather than over time. Where's the thread about that?

      Either way, like I said, I agree to a degree with you, but thorns damage change vs players is not one of them. If it were reverted to 30, in line with damage to mobs, it could be salvaged


      Edit1: From all I wrote you took that to lecture me on, lol. Even if it went on live as it was, only melees would suffer, but they sort of already do vs fire wall and any kiting build with bows, so not many changes to the meta, pvp wise.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Glasses ().

    • I do not understand the random hit and run nerf to curse. You remove tar slow% which is whatever because honestly no curse will even play that new Q. But on top of that you randomly nerf the little mobility we have as curse to chase all these builds who fly around with their multitude of mobility options?
    • Here are some more changes:

      • Cursed Tar (all Cursed Staffs)
        • Added the 10% slow back to the ability
      • Grudge (all Cursed Staffs)
        • Max Charges: 7 -> 4
        • Auto Attack 0.0s: 5 -> 10
        • Auto Attack 0.5s: 7 -> 20
        • Auto Attack 1.0s: 10 -> 40
        • Auto Attack 1.5s: 14 -> 70
        • Auto Attack 2.0s: 19 -> 120
      • Searing Flame (all Fire Staffs)
        • Standtime: 0.15s -> 0s
      • Pyroblast (one-handed Fire Staff)
        • Increased the projectile speed
        • (we are looking into increasing the aim-rotation speed, but that requires to handle this ability completely different on the back end to communicate this properly to all other clients in real time)
      • Flame Pillar (Great Fire Staff)
        • Hit Delay: 1s -> 0.8s
      • Living Torch (Infernal Staff)
        • Cooldown: 30s -> 20s
        • Cast Range: 12m -> 14m
        • Energycost: 15 -> 12
      • Threatening Strike (all Hammers)
        • Hit Delay: 0.4s -> 0.1s
        • Standtime: 0.4s -> 0.1s
        • Cooldown: 3s -> 2s
      • Giant Steps (Forge Hammers)
        • Giant Smash Damage: 90 -> 100
      • Desperate Prayer (one handed Holy Staff
        • Buff Duration: 12s -> 15s
      • Fleet Footwork (all War Gloves)
        • Kick - Damage: 50 -> 64
        • Kick - Slightly increased hitbox
        • The step can now be used even without hitting an enemy during the kick
        • Step - Buff Duration: 3s -> 5s