Pinned Balance Changes - Into The Fray

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    • Hattenhair wrote:

      The_Support_God wrote:

      Healing W/E options in my opinion are equal to damage options because their values are compensated for group play
      they had to reduce healing by 30% to make it this weaker in corrupted dungeon
      If we take the 2 most bland examples - 1H holy E under 40% VS 3-stack Broadsword E, the damage/healing should be about the same (~650, give or take 50, after resistances at 1150 IP in full cloth, I'm too lazy to log in for concrete numbers). Same goes for AoE's - Kingmaker VS Fallen, etc. Of course, they're not as bland as pure healing/damage with utility and different downsides added on top (stack requirements, delays, cast-times, cleanses, you name it), but the gist of it stays the same - the power level of individually selected W/E spells is roughly equal.
      The reason why there's a healing reduction debuff in CRDs is because of sustain stacking - old nature staff is a good example which can abuse such a system, doesn't matter how much damage you deal as long as you can outheal the damage you receive. Double merc meta is also a good example.
      The reason why there's a healing reduction debuff in 2v2 HG's is that the Q healing slots truly, as you mentioned, have 5v5 values.

      The_Support_God wrote:

      because of how easy it is to disengage and cast W and E 1 or 2 rotations to heal up before reengaging
      even without Q healing they have enough sustain in Hit and run tactics where they can shrug off damage they take
      Did you read my post? That's exactly why I mentioned that healer bruisers should not have mobility options - to limit their ability to cast W/E sustain on a whim unpunished.

      The_Support_God wrote:

      then why i have problems with thorns and bramble seed? and not smite? simple
      your pre change thorns Q has the power budget equal to most E on weapons in the game. it had everything. CC, high damage, AoE denial,
      That's an issue of a singular spell, not an issue of healer-bruisers as a sub-class. To be quite honest I still don't understand what's up with all of these overloaded Qs lately, they have the mechanics akin to W or even E spells. Qs should be very understandable and easy to execute, and not whatever the new thorns are.
      The last one @Support_whatever you was hoping for explained you what 10 people before you tried explain you...

      These discussions always remember me to the one wrong way driver complaining about all the stupid guys driving in the wrong direction - whatever.

      Looking at thorns, the reasonable change would have been if one is needed at all, to remove the Auto AA bonus. If the concept of thorns Q is zoning on the ground, gaining damage on AA is just completely breaking the concept. Because if the Nature is in AA mode, the other, spear, bow, fire, curse, frost, whatever is in AA mode 10 times before.
      So putting Q on the floor you goal is to stay away, not to AA.
      AA is just like Execution mode or PVE.. but not for PvP in zoning mode.

      So you shouldn't add the AA to average comparison damage at all, because you try avoid AA range...

      That's why I btw think that the concept of AA bonus is wrong.

      So the proper fix would have been: damage on Q stays as it is in PvE & PvP but the bonus damage gets halved
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      @The_Support_God
      It's quite easy honestly.

      If we are speaking on an individual level then healing W/E spells always fall slightly behind damaging W/E alternatives, the bulk of it all is usually compensated with the massive healing output provided by Q spell slots, be in Generous heal, Rejuvenation, or whatever else.
      Pretending that damaging Q's on healers and DPS are about the same performance-wise, you only have to balance one factor - healers being able to cast their W and E spell slots without an enemy or allied target nearby (i.e: onto themselves), unlike the DPS. This all follows one theme - reducing the chances that a healer could cast their W/E without getting punished, which in 1v1 combat is reliant on a single condition - the ability to out-kite your opponent.

      Balancing healer bruisers consists of literally one thing - depriving them of advantageous mobility like leaps or movespeed buffs. You don't even need to balance the healing values in most cases, for the reasons mentioned above and the massive dependency on their healing Q spell slots to compensate for the lack of it provided by W's and E's.
      yap healer Ws not good for self healing , Nature Ws1 get damage will end fast for channeling, ws2 base on Qs ,W3 buff damage resistance+ samll self heal ,W4 base on Q.

      Holy Ws1 small heal and damage+ knocking back people,Ws2 can't channeling on self ,W3 buff and anti forced moving, Ws4 need ally stand in front of you ,Ws5 rise up people. But damage weapons Ws can easy make damage/ Cc on enemy.

      Es base on weapons,some weapons have great self heal some weapons don't have .

      If Ws can more easy self heal Qs damage can reduce more for balance.but if can't, healer doing solo PvP will like norma weapons,only have Es can do self healing in good (if Qs damage ability)
    • Quagga wrote:

      is 1 stack vile curse on Desecrate necessary ?
      Is this a joke? Curse already has god awful Q range for unknown reasons. If anything desecrate is weak as the root isn't even really a root. All builds still jump around just fine while "rooted". Cursed sickle is not playbale in solo/small scale only in 5s or ZvZ. It would be impossible for solo curse to fight at all if the root was gutted and the Q range stayed the worst in game. Even with the current stack from desecrate curse players still sacrifice loads of damage from other W options while using it.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Tabor ().

    • Tabor wrote:

      Is this a joke? Curse already has god awful Q range for unknown reasons. If anything desecrate is weak as the root isn't even really a root. All builds still jump around just fine while "rooted". Cursed sickle is not playbale in solo/small scale only in 5s or ZvZ. It would be impossible for solo curse to fight at all if the root was gutted and the Q range stayed the worst in game. Even with the current stack from desecrate curse players still sacrifice loads of damage from other W options while using it.
      It seems to me that curse bomb will be too strong and the amount of responses will be greatly reduced, before adding caerleon cape and the stack management problem made sense so after adding cape I no longer see the need for Desecrate to have a vile curse stack.
    • Quagga wrote:

      Tabor wrote:

      Is this a joke? Curse already has god awful Q range for unknown reasons. If anything desecrate is weak as the root isn't even really a root. All builds still jump around just fine while "rooted". Cursed sickle is not playbale in solo/small scale only in 5s or ZvZ. It would be impossible for solo curse to fight at all if the root was gutted and the Q range stayed the worst in game. Even with the current stack from desecrate curse players still sacrifice loads of damage from other W options while using it.
      It seems to me that curse bomb will be too strong and the amount of responses will be greatly reduced, before adding caerleon cape and the stack management problem made sense so after adding cape I no longer see the need for Desecrate to have a vile curse stack.
      The piece most people forget is that every single build in the game now has a direct counter to 1h curse with the addition of dodge roll on all boot slots. The average player has just become comfortable with mobility instead of actually using defensives well. Dodge roll on top of the multitude of other bomb counters available on many armor slots keeps 1h curse in check. The addition of not being cleanseable essentially only impacts 2v2 HGs where now 1h curse can actually fight against nature comps on cleanse heal. Mercenary hood is virtually non existant in use because frankly the helm is awful compared to all other options outside of ZvZ.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Tabor ().

    • If Mercenary hood can buff like
      1.clean all debuff ,dot and C.C
      2. immune C.C for next 2.5s or buff damage resistance for next 4s .
      I think will useful.
      As a healer i join fw or bandit will use Knight helmet , because can buff cc resistance and immune forced moving, mercenary hood is very embarrassing, when you clean one cc but get new cc from enemy side XD
    • Catandcoffee wrote:

      If Mercenary hood can buff like
      1.clean all debuff ,dot and C.C
      2. immune C.C for next 2.5s or buff damage resistance for next 4s .
      I think will useful.
      As a healer i join fw or bandit will use Knight helmet , because can buff cc resistance and immune forced moving, mercenary hood is very embarrassing, when you clean one cc but get new cc from enemy side XD
      Your listed option 2 is what I have always thought would make sense. Clearing CC in itself is not enough because most builds with CC have multiple CC options. It would make sense for the ability to clear CC and make target CC immune for 4 seconds or something of that sort. Also adding some resistance of X duration or damage increase would make it less useless against opponents with no CC.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Tabor ().

    • Will the combat balance updates be kept up to date either on page 1 here or the NDA Balance forum? I imagine many tweaks will be made over the coming weeks and it would be ideal to see them all in one place instead of surfing through pages on this forum if possible.
    • Cleanse already gives you a single second of CC resistance after you successfully cleanse something. Any cleanse works that way.
      But it's not enough to be honest, so I'm vouching for damage resistances to make it more useful for people without CC.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Please adjust whole Sword Tree with this :
      • E spell on Swords doesn't consume Heroic Charges anymore


      @Korn @Shakul57 @Retroman

      When this patch come out if you dont do something this weapon tree gonna be outdated so hard by the new staffs rework, so making this change gonna keeep then in some kind of meta.

      Right now swords are not ussefull at all, is a underdog tree so dont forget them please.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MrDaS ().

    • Tabor wrote:

      Claymore and 1h sword are heavily used in solo and small scale PvP. Allowing these particular swords to keep stacks after E would be absurdly OP.
      Just because 2 weps have good E for corrupt /hellgate whole tree have to sufer be outdated? Keep the stacks for stay on the chase of the target is the main reason they doing that on dual sword, same argument works for all tree. Also this 2 weps are just ussefull on instances, what about open world?

      Keep some speed buff is rasonable if you look at dagger tree they can infinite jump with Q, mace can jump like a frog whole map, etc.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by MrDaS ().

    • MrDaS wrote:

      Please adjust whole Sword Tree with this :

      E spell on Swords doesn't consume Heroic Charges anymore


      @Korn @Shakul57 @Retroman

      When this patch come out if you dont do something this weapon tree gonna be outdated so hard by the new staffs rework, so making this change gonna keeep then in some kind of meta.

      Right now swords are not ussefull at all, is a underdog tree so dont forget them please.
      Troll post?

      And who the heck is Shakul57???
    • MrDaS wrote:

      Trial_hard wrote:

      Troll post?

      And who the heck is Shakul57??
      Right click on his name...
      Trolll post? are you a Bloodletter abuser? Mad because i request some update on swords?

      Where is your argumment?
      my friend I thought it is Troll because after you have charged up, you jump to target..

      While doing so, you have on target if u don't loose stacks permanent 36% movement + The AS modifier. You are on target permanent. You don't even need iron will.. also for escape, you simply E to the next mob and run on with 36% movement..

      That's why I was sure u Troll