Wailing Bow Rework

    • Combat Balance
    • Wailing Bow Rework

      First i would like to say thanks to the devs and everyone in the thread who made the long bow viable again in medium and ZvZ scale game play
      Also changes to the meta has made whispering bow found its place as well so thanks to everyone involved

      Next on my agenda list is to fix Wailing bow

      Backstory: as longbow is now added back to the roster of ZvZ weapons due to recent buffs and AoE escalation and mist piercer is still taking one of the top spots as Ranged Dps in various open world content
      wailing bow is falling behind due how it works
      Assume IP is Equivalent to T8 with 700 specs
      Hitting the first target would take roughly 880 phy damage and 1450 phy damage at 4th target hit

      this is compared to other similar zvz weapons such as
      mist piercer - 700 damage per shot (2800 per full volley)
      long bow - 400 damage per wave (1600 for full channel without explosive arrow damage)
      Weeping repeter - 1230 damage per 20 seconds
      dawn song - 1100 hit and 600 burn for 1700 total damage with anti heal every 30 secs (recent buff)
      brimstone - 2000 per cast
      Wildfire - 960 damage with 12% true damage also 1 handed

      based on the above examples we can conclude being the first and second target hit would result in underwhelming damage while scaling to relative normal levels after hitting 4 targets
      this would make it bad for any scale lower then ZvZ and even in ZvZ its not the best choice
      the reason i say this is because a weapon should have a game mode where it is best at or can still perform averagely across multiple content
      wailing bow has neither a best at game mode or is usable in any other content

      To improve the state of Wailing bow i suggest a full rework of the skill. there will be several versions
      after reading all suggestions versions you are free to comment / feedback and provide your own version of wailing bow change

      Version 1: Charging Arrow. Similar to raven strike
      Charge Your Bow before releasing a huge piercing arrow which deals massive damage (damage cannot be reflected)
      While charging you are Slowed by 20%
      The damage of the arrow depends on the charge time
      Charge time: 0.5s | 1.0s | 1.5s | 2.0s
      Damage: 900 | 1200 | 1500 | 1800

      Cooldown : 30 seconds
      projectile speed : Increased to 25m/s (21m/s live value)
      range: 24 meters

      Drawbacks - Can be interrupted similar to brimstone. Unable to decrease cast time unlike brimstone but is able to move similar to raven strike


      Version 2: Rebalanced values to be more content friendly with emphasis on first target hit
      Fire a large piercing arrow dealing 1000 damage.
      The arrow releases flames in a 5m cone upon hitting the first target dealing 10% of targets health as true damage
      Damage cannot be reflected

      Cooldown : 30 seconds
      projectile speed : 30m/s before first hit 18m/s after first hit
      range : 24 meters

      comments: this version of wailing bow puts emphasis on hitting your main target with your E with its fast projectile speed upon cast which slows down to a crawl after initial hit
      the opposite version of the current where it get stronger per hit

      Version 3: Be more Aoe oriented dealing less damage but affecting a larger area with some reward for landing the shot on the target
      Fire a large arrow in the air which lands down after 1 second dealing massive damage in the epicenter and less on the outer ring (inspiration from CD final boss (melee version))
      Damage_________: 1200 | 900
      Range from center_: 0-4 meter radius | 4-8 meter radius
      Enemies hit by the epicenter is knocked up for 1 second
      Enemies hit can proc explosive arrow

      Cooldown : 30 Seconds
      Range : 15 meters
      Cast time : 0.6 seconds

      With a large range of 8 meters it provides the best of both worlds where it is an in between state of long bow and brimstone. damage is Reflectable as a balance for larger AoE
      A fully charged raven strike would be some what better due to longer cc and more reliable damage due to resilience penetration
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build

      The post was edited 6 times, last by The_Support_God ().

    • The_Support_God wrote:

      Version 1: Charging Arrow.
      How do you plan to control both movement and aim direction while charging?
      • A separate button press for arrow release (could be an issue with multiple wailing bows holding charge indefinitely).
      • Arrow direction is determined at the start of the channel but can strafe meanwhile.
      • Can't move during channel, but can choose arrow direction.
      • Can do both with mechanics borrowed from Ava crossbow and Ursine gauntlets (will be very confusing and unintuitive).
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • @Hattenhair
      thats the beauty of it right?

      Click E channel charge up charge shot while mouse is free to click and move
      Click E again to release arrow.

      charge up can only hold for X seconds

      does this sound like a reasonable solution?

      well there is a debuff in move speed of 20% while charging. this debuff strength can be discussed if its too weak
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      Click E channel charge up charge shot while mouse is free to click and move
      Click E again to release arrow.
      charge up can only hold for X seconds
      does this sound like a reasonable solution?
      The skill will forcefully go on cooldown after, say, 6s?
      Sounds sensible.

      The_Support_God wrote:

      well there is a debuff in move speed of 20% while charging. this debuff strength can be discussed if its too weak
      Slow that increases with charge strength? So that holding charge at maximum for too long will severely hinder your mobility.
      10%->20%->30%->40%, as an example.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      Version 1: Charging Arrow. Similar to raven strike
      Charge Your Bow before releasing a huge piercing arrow which deals massive damage (damage cannot be reflected)
      While charging you are Slowed by 20%
      The damage of the arrow depends on the charge time
      Charge time: 0.5s | 1.0s | 1.5s | 2.0s
      Damage: 900 | 1200 | 1500 | 1800
      eh.... ML's yi sun sin vibes

      Hattenhair wrote:

      The skill will forcefully go on cooldown after, say, 6s?
      Sounds sensible.
      I think that if u don't release the arrow then the spell will go on a shorter CD

      Could we make it to increase the vision range of the caster based on how long u charge the E?
      Arcane supremacy
    • I quite like the thought of a rework of the wailing bow, since as you rightly say, it's a weapon that is way behind in all content, so much so that I haven't even seen it, maybe only once to a person on zvz.

      However, I've always thought that the wailing bow, is too similar in mechanics to the avalon bow, that is, throw your skill "E", to a crowd of people to inflict as much damage as possible, I think that and damage, makes people definitely prefer the avalon bow. So from my perspective, I would rule out version 1.

      Version 2 and 3, are much more appealing to me, I think it would be interesting to see a bow that with its characteristic ability, ends up burning in area (perhaps reducing the effectiveness of healing, which would be appealing and useful in zvz). I think these are good ideas and it would be great if they were considered for a rework, personally I would lean towards a mix of these two versions (which are also very good), which would consist of launching the same arrow, with the same range and characteristics, and instead of doing a knock up, inflict damage (more in the center) and leave in this perimeter a burning area for 3-5 seconds, which reduces heals and does damage the longer you are there. Clearly we will have to see and balance the types of damage -impact and burning-, but it would be a good way to poke the rival blobs or maybe it would work even in 1v1.
    • While I agree that Wailing bow need a rework, I think your version 1 have some issues.

      1. The mechanics too similar to Ravenstrike Cetus, seemingly it's just ranged version makes it less exciting as new thing.

      2. If a skill have multiple charge level, it should have some merit for using lower level not just bad version of maximum charge.
      Many older weapon suffers this problem (e.i Dagger pair, Deathgivers E), but all the recently added weapon like Demonfang, War gloves, Clarent blade reworks are wonderfully solved the problem.

      In summary, if there's multiple charge or step in skill, the low charge must have it's own strength.
    • Well it was a prototype based on raven strike

      also there will be no merit for using a lower charge level because most of the time the end effect encourages players to hold it in for that long
      when charging there is opportunity for counter play by disrupting the bow charge up animation similar to how people interrupt brimstone / fire artillary back when it was very hard hitting

      while this Gap may make or break the weapon. it is what gives it a skill cap so that its not just another mindless fire and forget weapon
      we already have mist piercer , long bow and weeping repeater for that
      Embrace the Risk Vs Reward. Do not deny it
      For it will only bring you pain

      #RiskVSRewardCult

      Currently aiming for 120 on all Armors related to Morningstar Build