Stack/Sort in the Inventory

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    • Stack/Sort in the Inventory

      Hi everyone,

      Sorry for keeping quiet on the topic for so long. I have to be honest here, this blew up way bigger than I or anyone here would have expected.

      First of all, I want to make it absolutely clear that we would NEVER make a change that we believe to be bad for the game or just to annoy anyone. Any change, no matter how big or small they may appear, gets discussed internally and, of course, pros and cons get weighed against each other.

      When we were planning these specific changes, we did so with a couple of ideas in mind.

      The stack and sort buttons have always had a bit of an awkward position in their previous spot due to the visual separation of the inventory UI by the weight bar. They always seem to belong more to the equipped Items rather than the inventory items that you are stacking and sorting. For any new player, this change is simply supposed to place the extended management functions of Stack/Sort, next to the area that they are actually managing. At the same time, we were very clear in our goal not to reduce the usable inventory space to fit the buttons more nicely, since the space is already limited to 3½ inventory rows on mobile or PC with 100% interface scaling.

      We also made these changes to promote both Loadouts, and the Wardrobe (Vanity). We constantly get questions from newer players about how they can change their appearance.
      And indeed, both of these features have been somewhat hidden away in the character context menu out of necessity, and have therefore seen less use than we would want them to.
      When it comes to the Wardrobe we wanted to make it more convenient to switch your skins when updating your equipment. Maybe this is not quite as important for hardcore players who have skins disabled, however, we have a great number of players who like to look the part when changing their playstyle by swapping items.
      Additionally, since the introduction of the Patch 4 changes, we have seen a dramatic increase in Loadouts created, equipped and purchased. This shows that having easy access to them via the Inventory is ultimately good for the game.

      I hope that clarifies a bit of the reasoning for the changes.

      All that being said, we are currently looking into possibilities of improving the visibility of the Stack/ Sort buttons without further limiting the visible inventory space.

      Cheers
      -Mo
    • I don't think anyone at all would disagree with having quicker access to loadouts and the wardrobe somewhere in the inventory. But please, please don't "fix" it by making the stack/sort buttons bigger elsewhere. Please honor our years of muscle memory and put the stack and sort buttons back where they were, and find another good place for the two new buttons.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Zlexak ().

    • I think I figured out why these changes are so grating to me, besides the fact that they replaced sort/stack.

      It goes against the current design paradigm, there are no other
      interface menus that open interface menus, only sub-menus of those
      interfaces.

      The Loadout/Wardrobe buttons shouldn't have been put into the Inventory interface at all...

      They should have been given their own button(s) at the top right of the screen.



      They are important features that shouldn't be tucked away, but they shouldn't be in the inventory screen either.
      Guild Master of American Craftsman
      ~Discord gb5Xdpr~
      T8 Quarrier, Miner, Lumberjack, Skinner, Harvester, Fisher
    • GrayMo wrote:

      Sorry for keeping quiet on the topic for so long. I have to be honest here, this blew up way bigger than I or anyone here would have expected.

      First of all, I want to make it absolutely clear that we would NEVER make a change that we believe to be bad for the game or just to annoy anyone. Any change, no matter how big or small they may appear, gets discussed internally and, of course, pros and cons get weighed against each other.
      Thank you for your response. I appreciate it more than you could know.

      I wouldn't expect that you where making changes to the UI with the intent to annoy people, but intent or not, you did.

      Besides the fact that you completely disregarded your established player base's ingrained muscle memory, the new UI changes effect inventory management by closing out both the bank and inventory windows if you accidentally click them.

      NO button that a player clicks in any interface that a player is working in should close that interface except the (x) button.


      GrayMo wrote:

      The stack and sort buttons have always had a bit of an awkward position in their previous spot due to the visual separation of the inventory UI by the weight bar. They always seem to belong more to the equipped Items rather than the inventory items that you are stacking and sorting.
      This was never an issue, In your mind there is a separation between equipped items and Inventory, to the average player, there isn't this mental distinction, especially since you can easily equip items from your inventory.

      The former inventory worked holistically as opposed to the function of its parts.

      GrayMo wrote:

      We also made these changes to promote both Loadouts, and the Wardrobe (Vanity). We constantly get questions from newer players about how they can change their appearance.
      And indeed, both of these features have been somewhat hidden away in the character context menu out of necessity, and have therefore seen less use than we would want them to.
      See my above post.

      GrayMo wrote:

      When it comes to the Wardrobe we wanted to make it more convenient to switch your skins when updating your equipment. Maybe this is not quite as important for hardcore players who have skins disabled, however, we have a great number of players who like to look the part when changing their playstyle by swapping items.
      I am a high playtime player who ADORES vanity items, I love to change out my appearance for the content that I am playing. I had a freaking heretic cart skin in the TRAILER for lands awakened. I bought the Knight skin bundle JUST for the flag with my guild logo on it.

      GrayMo wrote:

      I hope that clarifies a bit of the reasoning for the changes.
      I love this game, and for the most part I love the UI design that you have put a LOT of hard work into.

      However, clarifying your reasons for bad execution of a change to the UI doesn't change the fact that it was a poor design decision.
      Everyone makes mistakes, they happen to the best of us.

      GrayMo wrote:

      All that being said, we are currently looking into possibilities of improving the visibility of the Stack/ Sort buttons without further limiting the visible inventory space.
      I have already offered my solution to this (again see above post).

      In the meantime I implore you, revert the Stack/Sort buttons to their original place.


      Cheers to you as well.
      -Ren
      Guild Master of American Craftsman
      ~Discord gb5Xdpr~
      T8 Quarrier, Miner, Lumberjack, Skinner, Harvester, Fisher
    • The more I read it the less it makes sense so I'll break it down.

      GrayMo wrote:

      Sorry for keeping quiet on the topic for so long. I have to be honest here, this blew up way bigger than I or anyone here would have expected.
      So an apology for the (one week) silence, but not for the wrong choice. Mistakes happen however.


      First of all, I want to make it absolutely clear that we would NEVER make a change that we believe to be bad for the game or just to annoy anyone. Any change, no matter how big or small they may appear, gets discussed internally and, of course, pros and cons get weighed against each other.
      So somehow this change passed multiple people internally, reached staging, ignored feedback, make it to live and is still live as of now?


      The stack and sort buttons have always had a bit of an awkward position in their previous spot due to the visual separation of the inventory UI by the weight bar. They always seem to belong more to the equipped Items rather than the inventory items that you are stacking and sorting. For any new player, this change is simply supposed to place the extended management functions of Stack/Sort, next to the area that they are actually managing. At the same time, we were very clear in our goal not to reduce the usable inventory space to fit the buttons more nicely, since the space is already limited to 3½ inventory rows on mobile or PC with 100% interface scaling.
      So you have a reason, although it matters very little as the user result has a final say, intentions means very little to the end user, its works or it doesn't. So now we got a 80% reduced stack and sort in a different place than the one we had for ages. At least inventory size survived it right.I've honestly never heard or seen someone say stack and sort were in a weird spot that doesn't make sense or is confusing. It's 2 buttons next to inventory that sit closer to the center of the screen, meaning less distance traveled to a high usage button.


      We also made these changes to promote both Loadouts, and the Wardrobe (Vanity). We constantly get questions from newer players about how they can change their appearance.
      And indeed, both of these features have been somewhat hidden away in the character context menu out of necessity, and have therefore seen less use than we would want them to.
      Could be achieved by many means without interfering with the stack and sort buttons. Removing functionality that works is never a good choice.


      Maybe this is not quite as important for hardcore players who have skins disabled, however, we have a great number of players who like to look the part when changing their playstyle by swapping items.
      Additionally, since the introduction of the Patch 4 changes, we have seen a dramatic increase in Loadouts created, equipped and purchased. This shows that having easy access to them via the Inventory is ultimately good for the game.
      Hardcore players, or your average zvzer, all have skins, all use them regardless if they keep it on or off, does not mean we need ot lose stack and sort for this. I'm in agreement with the benefits of more obvious loadouts, but I'd ask if you guys got the metrics of how many times loadouts / wardrobe used through the new buttons has been instantly closed within a few seconds. Also how many times mobile players tried to press stack or sort and mistapped.

      All that being said, we are currently looking into possibilities of improving the visibility of the Stack/ Sort buttons without further limiting the visible inventory space.
      So "looking into possibilities" instead of the obvious, revert the changes, add wardrobe /loadouts to literally anywhere else?

      I will see you all in a week when we get the next response and we are still on same spot.
    • I'm sorry but I still can't understand your reasons and in fact, justification in this post.
      I can't just believe that you change this user interface without yet proper feedback from people before it gets live
      because I'm pretty sure that If you would have collect it correctly the feedback before going live, you wouldn't
      have so much angry people like you have now.

      I'm not mad about you wanting to promote a quick access and more easy way to go to vanity and loadouts, but
      doing it at the cost of making people to get used into a new UX interface, when loadouts,and wardobre is VERY less used
      than sort and stacking daily, it's just disrespectful for the players. It's like if you changed to move in albion with the up and down
      buttons arrow on your keyboard, instead of using the mouse for walk.
    • People are only mad because they are used to the old buttons but guess what, humans have this awesome ability, we can rewire our brain and create a new "muscular memory". I don't even click on the wrong button anymore, first day was hard i have to say. :P

      The new position makes more sense from a new player perspective, the only thing that should be fixed is the size of the stack/sort button, too small.

      Edit: Also the bank button should be the same and in the same position, all the stack/sort buttons should follow the same standard everywhere.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Jean_Helius ().

    • The main questions is: why? No one ever complained about the positioning of those buttons.
      Dont get me wrong but looks like you guys have nothing else to do. Are SBI lacking on feedbacks?
      Instead of optimizing the game for new players with more in-game dialogs and instructions are you guys changing buttons... that's hard to believe.