Crystal League (needs a) Rework (RT X-Post)

    • 5v5 Crystal League
    • I really like this post and thanks for starting it up, Tazzik.

      I can agree with pretty much everything that you've listed even with some of the things I view as minor but any change to the current system could be a good change.

      5v5 is my favorite content in the game. I've wanted a solo/duo crystal arena with an MMR system for a couple years now, and it's not just so that I can spam games all day, even though I would. I'd like to use it to find people to create a team without having to set up a time and date around the timers that we currently go by for the crystal system.

      A huge issue with the system for me is the timers and how the levels revolve around them. I work 12 hour days, Saturday, Sunday, Monday which doesn't allow me to play the highest levels without taking days off. Not that I've had a chance to get to the high levels but even if I did, I would have to take time off for it as I can't play on any of the timers without it being an inconvenience to me. I could play the 13 UTC crystals on Saturday but I'd be running on like 3 hours of sleep maximum.

      I actually preferred the previous crystal system in regards to the levels. 1-3 and they could be played at either of the 2 timers. (At least I think there were only 2 timers) I wasn't a liability to the team because of my work schedule back then. I had a team that didn't mind my schedule because anyone could play lvl 3s, you didn't have to have a token that could only be obtained by winning a one tier lower leveled match. I still remember when they announced this new system and I believe all the high lvl matches were always Saturday with nothing spread out to what is now on Tuesday. It was rough to see because I go from being apart of a top tier team with Misty, Gotja, Ricest, Lucinial, and sometimes Sohrab, none of which play the game still, to now being a liability to any team that I'd join because of my schedule. I recently had a team that played up to lvl 3s but the team had too many inconsistencies that we couldn't go further but even if we did go further, the more I'd become a liability. I'd love to compete in the top end crystal matches but it's just too unrealistic for someone like me.

      I do really like the recruitment board idea, although being able to play is only 3/4s of the battle where as the other 1/4 is the communication. I would hate to be a 5 man that signed up from the recruitment board to go against a team that were all in comms. I think the crystal discord is pretty accessible and a good way to connect both in game and in comms. The issue I have with it is that some players might need a lot of time to get better at the content and there's not enough resources for those players to get better. Teams typically only scrim around the timers and there's only 3 sets of timers in the day. It becomes a huge commitment to build a fresh team when there is no way to practice more. HGs are good but they are nothing like crystals, not even the same meta for the most part. And Arenas are yeah...

      You can even add a 5 man que for crystal arenas, have 2 different MMR systems. (5 premade and solo/duo)
    • Yeah I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about the timers.

      When you talked about accessibility being the biggest thing I was shocked you didn’t mention the timers. I’m an NA player and can’t make ANY of the timers. I’m not joking. The last timer of the day is my 6pm, aka post work and dinner with family time.

      It feels like the timers are beneficial for EU players and that’s about it.

      I would love to see some sort of a queue system integrated, like Arenas. Something that lets your choose your own schedule of engaging with this content.

      The timers are the ONLY reason I don’t play this content all the time.
    • DAartanian wrote:

      When you talked about accessibility being the biggest thing I was shocked you didn’t mention the timers. I’m an NA player and can’t make ANY of the timers. I’m not joking. The last timer of the day is my 6pm, aka post work and dinner with family time.
      I commented on this in them RT version of the post, but honestly I completely forgot the timers when writing this up, but they are a massive issue as well. The timers definitely need revisiting.
      i stream and post videos on the internet
      twitch.tv/Tazzik
      youtube.com/SeanTazzik
    • Crystals are a content our small guild tried to get in , but after being steam rolled by smurfs or high coordination teams at level 1 (we know because we even got some known names) most people dont even bother .

      I think the best solution is creating a true ELO systeam were you can queue and you get matched against similar level teams , and if you want to go premade you only get premade teams.
    • I'm glad other people are posting about crystals, but fact of the matter is the devs clearly just want them to die. Every change they make just makes them less and less appealing.

      The highest risk / hardest content in the entire game gives legitimately the worst rewards of anything besides arenas.
    • Imblitzkrieg wrote:

      I'm glad other people are posting about crystals, but fact of the matter is the devs clearly just want them to die. Every change they make just makes them less and less appealing.

      The highest risk / hardest content in the entire game gives legitimately the worst rewards of anything besides arenas.
      !!! new info soon maybe !!!
      i stream and post videos on the internet
      twitch.tv/Tazzik
      youtube.com/SeanTazzik

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Tazzik ().

    • Shadbaese wrote:

      Crystal League exists to pull people away from the open-world, which all of Albion is fundamentally based around.
      Not closed instanced daily fights done straight from the city, we NEED to move away from Crystal League, regardless of it's potential as an "e-sports scene."
      In what way are crystals affecting you being done out of a city? Can't use the excuse people use for HCEs in that they are heavily rewarded because the rewards are nonexistent. I can see that you are newer so I'll give you a short history lesson. This game was built around 5v5s, maybe not in a city but they separated open world from crystals intentionally.
    • introduction
      I'm sorry that I'm late to this party. but I would like to introduce me and the experience I have in crystalling and also in gvg I started to practice and train on a daily basis for gvg scrims at the end season 6 and in season 7. I've been trying to form teams and get every opportunity to form crystals team ever since the revamped up crystals came out and I understand what a lot of people are going through. I have gone through it as well. having to work on getting a new team every time and getting people on the right schedule has been truly a headache.


      crystal league 3.0
      since there's already a massive discussion and debate here I would like to add my suggestion to this growing topic. Crystal Lee can be set up in a way with a sign-up system. a sign-up is a team roster where you will have your subs and your main Team all in one spot. this team will have to pay a fee for the initial start up and just like any other roster there is in the game there are cool downs and a whole bunch of other penalties contributed to it. the system will get rid of the tokens all together, will no longer become necessary, the system will be based off a infamy system where the loot table will become increased as higher your infamy become.
      • infamy system loot table and ranking

      • enable the Queue at any time with your team. solo or group.

      • remove Arena

      • remove tokens


      scenario

      1. the good way to understand this scenario he's looked at other rank games using the bronze silver gold Platinum diamond rankings.
      2. if somebody is a silver rank and they're going to try to get up to go drink out there you go you have a block silver and gold.
      3. so if a block can be a it capped and a certain level of skill how would that work or does it need to be something different.
      4. does the category need a complexity of skills with IP caps to make it
      5. this all boils down to the notion which is the most effective combination. I'm providing ip cap with the rankings of corrupted and sectioning them off or simply putting them into categories which will work for you.



      the good way to understand this scenario he's looked at other rank games using the bronze silver gold Platinum diamond rankings.there could be multiple different kinds of scenarios for this combinations to work it could be block-based where each one of your broken up into blocks, put item caps on each blocks and divided up that way with a non-lethal and lethal. you can go with the multiple different leagues all together and breaking up on that way put locks on those two or a combination of such it could be even adjusted to where the different combinations of block or different leagues didn't work or a straight up a block week system where it's just one single leak going all the way up with multiple blocks raking up the skill levels and also putting item levels for each of the blocks. another way of understanding blocks he's looking at corrupted.


      • block ip cap

      • category ip cap
      if this idea seems interesting I made a pole hopefully it will make it easier for everyone to figure out
      reddit.com/r/albiononline/comm…ue_rankings_work_for_you/

      leave it up to the Dev?
      here we go
      patch notes


      • remove all timers crystal league

      • remove Arena

      • remove tokens

      • all cheat and player matches will be set to an MMR system

      • placing the non-lethal and lethal into different categories of a league.

      • remove all IP caps requirements

      • adding an MMR system and ELO block of level 10

      • all loot that is dropped in the battle will automatically be scooped up. will be divided up into 10% Black Market 40% loot table for the cheat and the remaining amount will be automatically trashed.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by GuardianDragonLord ().

    • I know this is a bit late.

      Here are selected excerpts from a recent discussion on the Crystal League.


      Tazzik wrote:

      1. Accessibility


      No interface/assistance in making a group of 5 players in-game

      Outside of L1s, multiple sets per member need to be prepared before the match (large initial investment that you don't break even on)

      Bad IP Scaling across levels

      No way to practice (Arena != Crystals) as a new team/someone who wants to do the content (Scrims are only used by established teams)

      Extreme barrier to entry

      Players unable to enjoy & interact with the content fully due to the timers* - edited in as I originally forgot about it, but it is a massive deal

      a lot more
      2. Separated from the Game


      No info in-game about the system (nothing that even tells new players/existing players the content exists, true for a lot of things in the game)

      Directly affects no game systems other than Season Points (whether or not this is an issue depends on the intention of the system)

      a lot more, very similar to accessibility for many points
      All of Tazzik’s points on accessibility and available information are valid points. As content aimed at the elite 5v5 players that existed prior to Queen as a replacement to the territory battles, it was successful and fulfilled its purpose. However, that segment of the game’s population no longer has the political motivations to increase its numbers.


      Basically, Albion’s current systems no longer create elite 5v5 players who can afford to participate in elite content. If the Crystal League continues to be aimed exclusively at the elite its population will continue to shrink.


      The gameplay of 5v5 is quite good and can easily be leveraged to grow Albion Online’s population and increase low player retention if it is designed to be a more inclusive drop-in mode with a proper escalation of risk and reward.


      If it is to stay an elite game mode, Resource Map 2, a 2 phase Capture, and rewards rework can keep 5v5 functioning for the time being. As always If the rewards are significant enough players will play the content.


      Regardless of the target audience, the information needs to be provided to players in a better manner. Too much of Albion’s gameplay is hidden. This is not only true of Crystals, though they may be one of the worst examples. Currently, access is granted through an NPC located in a specialized room that does not get an explanation of what they do or what they are selling tokens. The schedule shown does not offer the player enough relevant information.

      Tazzik wrote:

      3. 9 Levels | Artificial Ranking that Doesn't Work


      Quite simply, there shouldn't be 9 levels

      No actual ranking system, outside of the artificial separation that happens when higher level crystals are going on. Teams who fight in level 5+ beat teams who are starting out/moving up from level 1/2s making them not want to engage in the content again

      etc.

      I do not believe the tier-based ranking system is the problem, its failings are due to a lack of proper scaling across the tiers and diminishing player numbers. As a system for elite players, it is failing because of numbers, it is not a system designed to be accessible therefore it should not be expected that new players playing level 1s find success or experience upwards mobility.

      Tazzik wrote:

      4. The Game Mode


      Players have optimized the game mode to the point where matches are lasting just seven minutes, where as they used to last upwards of fifteen


      Shorter matches means the only time new/mid-tier teams get to engage in 5s, they lose without being able to practice

      Hard to swing 20-ticks, even after death can still hold the caps

      etc.

      The issue of the 3 cap hold is real and seems to have become more of an issue as of late. I agree with the solutions on this of using resource map 2 and moving to a two-phase capture system. This is something we have discussed at length between all of the casters on AOTV. While this may create an incentive to rat cap we do not see this as a negative to 5v5 crystals.


      Tazzik wrote:

      5. Rewards


      The rewards are bad


      You don't profit if you win with a reasonable amount of deaths (between level 2s-5s I'd say this is true)

      etc.

      For elite content, the rewards are worse than bad. They appear to be based on the fact that you gain from your opponent’s loss and that is the main reward for your victory.

      This leveraged position further discourages players from engaging in the activity by increasing the cost of participation by only increasing rewards of victors rather than all participants of the activity.

      Unless teams win a high percentage of their matches they lose silver. This creates a hostile learning environment. Combined with the lack of a variety of scale in the matches from level 2 through 9 few players progress.

      There is interest in the content but not when it has the highest personal investment while offering the lowest rewards for participation.

      This problem is further exacerbated by the “Soft Cap”. This may be the most effective design element at limiting the participation of newer players as it provides innate advantages to veteran players in multiple ways.

      The cost to reach and surpass the IP cap is lower for the veteran player due to specialization and mastery while at the same time the value of the same set is lower to them personally as they have more wealth than their less established counterparts.


      While some advantage is expected, such as greater wealth, the added advantages the soft cap provides creates an unbalanced playing environment heavily tilted in favor of the rich, the established, and those who are willing to swipe their cards.

      Tazzik wrote:

      6. Misc.


      Abuse


      Starting to see this a lot more now, guilds qing up 5 teams hoping they match against each other for the free points


      Not only are they abusing the system to get higher tokens and more rewards, but they take away the opportunity for a team to engage in the content and have fun

      This mostly occurs in 20v20s though as the number in 5s declines we are occasionally in the mid-tiers.
      This is a problem of player threshold. Once the population participating in the activity reaches a high enough level this issue will take care of itself. Compared to the issues that are causing players to not participate in the first place this is a minor issue that causes lots of noise among squeaky participants.

      Tazzik wrote:

      Balancing


      Not really an issue at all for why Crystals aren't more popular, but thought I'd mention that it feels like the meta's been stale for a bit.

      Problems with the map

      Other than the current meta’s 3 cap and hold problem I do not see the balance of items in 5v5 or 20v20 to be a vital concern.

      Potential Solutions

      While I largely agree with the problems and even would agree with the direction of many of his solutions though not necessarily the specifics.


      Changing the map to R2 and split cap I believe are good changes that would solve the current 3 cap meta issue. Even changing to R2 alone may be enough to put an end to this meta as its layout provides a much more open environment.


      That said it might change nothing as it does not address the main issue. 7.5 seconds provides the opponent a large window to interrupt a capture. With the all or nothing dive being well worth the cost. 2 points vs 20 pts means interruption is still more valuable than the control.

      Core Changes & Accessibility

      I agree the current system is flawed but do not believe it needs to be scrapped entirely. A tiered system can still work if the system provides a viable scale of challenge and reward that encourages players to move upwards and compete at the highest level available to them.


      A drop-in system for Crystal League is the most requested change to Crystal of the last 2 years. An Arena-like option without the rewards limitations of Arena would be a welcome change by most players and would go a long way towards expanding its accessibility.


      Below is my Proposed Crystal Schedule including IP and loot rules changes

      Level
      Day
      Time
      Loot rules
      IP Cap
      1
      Every day
      every 15 minutes
      Non-Lethal
      900 Hard Cap
      2
      Every day
      every 15 minutes
      Non-Lethal
      1000 Hard Cap
      3
      Every day
      every 15 minutes
      Non-Lethal
      1100 Hard Cap
      4
      Every day
      every 15 minutes
      Non-Lethal
      1200 Hard Cap
      5
      Every day
      every 15 minutes
      Non-Lethal
      1300 Hard Cap
      6
      Every day
      2:00, 2:30, 13:00,13:30
      20:00,20:30
      Full Loot
      1300 Hard Cap
      7
      Every day
      2:00, 2:30, 13:00,13:30
      20:00,20:30
      Full Loot
      1400 Hard Cap
      8
      Every week
      Sat: 14:00, 21:00 Sun: 3:00
      Full Loot
      1500 Hard Cap
      9
      Every 2 Weeks
      Sat: 14:30, 21:30 Sun: 3:30
      Full Loot
      1600 Soft Cap
      10
      Once a month*
      Sat: 15:00, 22:00 Sun: 4:00

      No IP Cap


      Alternately only Sat 22:00



      * the highest level in-season CL matches are no longer the end of the CL since the introduction of the CLC and should no longer be limited to once a season

      The goal here is to open up the lowest level of Crystals as an Arena-like event every 15 minutes. Putting it on a timer reduces the “wait” while pooling all available players. Every 15 minutes may seem optimistic and it may have to be every 15 minutes during a window in order to maximize player count.


      There are problems opening up level 1 crystal to an arena-like queue, it will be important to balance the cost of entry with reward and implement an adequate reporting system.

      Create a natural scaling effect by moving rewards from the chest at the end of the match and tying them directly to the tokens won after a match.

      Winners get a token that is a level above the match they participated in. Losers get a token that is a level below the match they participated in unless they reduce their opponents to 100 or fewer tickets. In this instance, they get a token of the same level.

      Tokens may be turned in for rewards, higher tokens get higher rewards. Tokens for level 1-5 are temporary and only last for 26 hours, they can not be traded.

      Once players have won a level 5 match they are granted access to level 6 matches.
      Tokens for levels 6-10 function the same way but are on a 2-week timer.

      Token-based rewards and their temporary nature are to encourage players to rank up and turn them in for rewards rather than smurf lower matches for consistent rewards, to discourage the hoarding of tokens for future use, and discourage win trading.
    • Shozen wrote:


      The goal here is to open up the lowest level of Crystals as an Arena-like event every 15 minutes. Putting it on a timer reduces the “wait” while pooling all available players. Every 15 minutes may seem optimistic and it may have to be every 15 minutes during a window in order to maximize player count.


      There are problems opening up level 1 crystal to an arena-like queue, it will be important to balance the cost of entry with reward and implement an adequate reporting system.

      Create a natural scaling effect by moving rewards from the chest at the end of the match and tying them directly to the tokens won after a match.

      Winners get a token that is a level above the match they participated in. Losers get a token that is a level below the match they participated in unless they reduce their opponents to 100 or fewer tickets. In this instance, they get a token of the same level.

      Tokens may be turned in for rewards, higher tokens get higher rewards. Tokens for level 1-5 are temporary and only last for 26 hours, they can not be traded.

      Once players have won a level 5 match they are granted access to level 6 matches.
      Tokens for levels 6-10 function the same way but are on a 2-week timer.

      Token-based rewards and their temporary nature are to encourage players to rank up and turn them in for rewards rather than smurf lower matches for consistent rewards, to discourage the hoarding of tokens for future use, and discourage win trading
      I think you're under estimating the surge of players that would come into Crystal leagues just for non-lethal alone. providing eol for players would make a huge difference and using the existing mmr system that is already in place for corrupted dungeons also help to. now I can understand a timer being used for the lethal levels and actually breaking those apart. you do have a very good point on a lot of this. it feels like a lot of this needs to be tested and played out before anything else can be said and done.
    • Please for the love of all that is holy and mighty just make up a new game mode. Did quidditch exist before j.k. rowling made it up? no- she took elements from other games and combined them all into one. This is the same playing field. You can literally do WHATEVER YOU WANT......and its 3 point king of the hill.......youre fucking joking.......

      Id give you my ideas but theyre gold. pay me first.
    • NEW crystal league game modes

      one lane Battle Royale

      How this works is that each team will have a crystal as their core; there will be barriers set up that can be channeled by the team to bring down each group with two walls; all the sides of the map will be well buff. You get the entire group with the same random buff from solo dungeons.


      Power Core Transport

      Crystal is in the map's center point, and there will be a circle around the crystal for your team to stand in. As the crystal moves closer to your side, the enemies can stand in a ring and stop the crystal; the track will be whining through the map on both sides. If only your team is in the circle, the crystal will go faster based on how many of your team members are in the ring.

      Capture the flag


      Similar to getting a power core, you can use it click on the object, and start dragging across the map; you are easily detected on the map. The flag will be located next to your enemy's camp. The flag carrier can be speed boosts if teammates are next to it, and the Boost applies to the teammate next to the flag carrier.


      Crystal hoarding.


      Who can hold on to the most Crystal fragments. as the match progresses, fragments will begin to spawn more often. If both teams do not collect enough crystals in time, the fragments will start forming into a core, damaging both teams and costing them points.


      tug of war


      Each team will have a wall protecting its side from the enemy, and the enemy will not be able to enter and do any harm. There will be crystals located outside the wall, and there will be crystals found inside the barriers with a total of 6. once all the walls have been removed, you will be able to destroy the crystal core of the enemy.

      summon


      Random objects will spawn on the map that will feed into the summon creature that is frozen in the middle; the first team who collects the most things activates the southern creature, and it will begin rampaging, killing any enemies along the way and damaging the enemies score that is invincible to your attacks and can only be damaged by the summon creature.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by GuardianDragonLord ().

    • GuardianDragonLord wrote:

      NEW crystal league game modes


      tug of war
      this game mode is design with multiple crystals that can be activated to push down the barrier that is defending the enemy team but this also means the enemy team can also push down your barrier to once the barrier is completely knocked out then the crystal will be exposed that could be destroyed


      collect A Thon
      random Crystal Shards are scattered throughout the map, are popping all over the place. enemy team or your team has to collect as many as possible and turn them in. but you have to channel to turn in the shards they received the points and if you get killed all of those shards drop on the ground.


      payload
      randomly on the map a power Crystal will pop up and your or the enemy team we'll have to pick it up. you will have to bring the crystal back to your side and Channel into a crystal core to receive the points.


      summon
      crystals will randomly spawn around the map these crystals can be channeled that will allow the team to summon a crystal aspect. to summon one of these giant creatures and place it under your team's control and operate it. you will need three channeled crystals. once the summoning is done you now have a creature that you can run around with I began smashing your enemy team. it could also help you received points towards the victory.


      ARAM
      a long corridor within narrow path. with Wells on either side for the teams to use and they provide a random buff.the instant win button being a crystal right next to the enemy tent.


      capture the flag
      ...
      Interesting ideas, but it will all end with cheesing like always, people will avoid fighting and play like a rats.
      one of albion's worse sides everything in the game is one big cheesing
    • Crystal league and Crystal Arena rework never stops reworking. Features can constantly be improved.



      improvements to Crystal Arena

      MMR system fix


      Setting up a calculation for the individual player skills, they have a percentage for the particular objective.


      the individual player efficiency with the team and their overall progress


      Every objective captured and scored will add up if the objective is stacking their points higher, then the overall points to that individual player's contribution to the win or loss will be added up.


      example


      The timer ticks down, and the points get taken away for the enemy team will wording a loss to their enemies 10 points; individual players who led the capture of those zones will receive points equivalent to each of those own, that is your hidden score at play.


      end


      Every Zone you capture and cash out causes the enemy team to lose points, and you successfully add up for every kill. Other things are added to the score. Those essential things add to your score, most of healing tanking and DPS.


      The system will most likely look like this.


      your team win


      bonus rank level disparity 0%
      overall stats of the match
      kills 10 = 60
      healing 1%
      tanking 3%
      DPS 40%
      top bonus 100
      healing 0
      tanking 0
      DPS 1
      Zone camping interrupt 2 = 10


      That gives you an idea of how it would look at the end of the game for the score on the screen. I want to see who got the best DPS of the whole match or who got the best healing.


      Premade groups should have a level; a premade group will be set by a limit of how far they could be spread apart, so if one team member is 800, well, it should be only a limit of 1800 as a Max, the highest level member of that premade group.


      Premade groups Diamond level will have a higher restriction; the group cannot be spread out any further than 100; this system would also apply to random players, so matches will no longer have layers of different levels match together so the system can be a little bit more balance.


      The system should no longer correct the time a premade group with another premade group. It should match them appropriately with the correct rank team.


      So you'll no longer see something like Iron 1 with a team 2 silver 4 and 2 gold 1.



      improvements to Crystal League

      Some serious questions need to be asked of crystal League. Is crystal League beneficial for these territories anymore?

      Crystal League should be earning might instead of season points anymore.