Lets take a look at the halberd (and kind of carrioncaller)

    • Lets take a look at the halberd (and kind of carrioncaller)

      Lets check some axes "E ability" stats: (t4 no spec no mastery stats)

      Battleaxe: 361 physical damage / 20% slow / 0%-100% lifesteal / 10sec cooldown [36,1 dps until new usage of it, has 0%/30%/60%/100% healing].

      Carrioncaller: 278 physical damage + 236 physical bleeding (total 514 physical damage) / 30% healing reduction / 18sec cooldown [28,556 dps, has 30% healing reduction].

      Bearpaws: 382 physical damage + 180 true damage bleeding (IGNORES ARMOUR) / 18sec cooldown (because of the cooldown reset it has) / movement mechanics [31,222 dps, has 32,02% of true damage].

      Realmbreaker: 591 physical damage / knockback for 0.6sec / total and actual health reduction of 20% / kind of mobility mechanic / 25sec cooldown [Against a 2,1k hp objective, including the health reduction, ur gonna do 591 + 420 = 1.011 damage results in 40,44 dps (depends on the enemy quality)].

      Infernal scythe: 288 physical damage + 288/640 = 576 used incorrectly - 928 with execution / 20sec cooldown [28,8 dps in wrong situation / 46,4 dps in correct situation].

      Greataxe: 194 physical damage each 0.5sec = 970 physical damage / 20% movement speed (they gonna remove it) / 25sec cooldown [38,8 dps, has movement speed for now and interrumptable].

      Halberd: 319 magical damage?? + 64/128/192 physical bleeding = 383/447/511 mix of damage / possibility of 12% healing reduction / 15sec cooldown [25,5 / 29,8 / 34,0 dps mostly of magical damage?? and possibility of 12% healing reduction].


      Subjective opinion: On a first look, you might think halberd is actually almost "decent" which actually it isn't:

      Greataxe needs enough skill to spin 2,5sec on a interrumptable status to deal 38,8 dps (you will always reach it).

      Realmbreaker on a 2,1k hp objective it deals 40,44 dps instantly (you can get interrupted in the cast), and leaves open more damage that can come which increases on the quality of the enemy ur facing.

      On a good situation infernal scythe can reach 46,4 dps, the biggest of the axes.

      Battleaxe actually has MORE DPS than Halberd and Carrioncaller (36,1 dps), and it can heal 100% of its damage, (but im counting it as 0% since it needs bleeding stacks) even when it is pve oriented.

      Bearpaws has a ton of movility and deals 31,22 dps which the 32% is true damage!!.

      Carrioncaller; who's gonna lie to you? its in a bad status aswell, with its 28,56 dps it has the 2nd worst dps in the axes, but it has a secured 30% healing reduction.

      And finally, the Halberd, it is so unstable that it has 25,5 dps it is the worst axe E dps if we don't count the Q bleeding stacks like I did with the battleaxe healing stacks. If we do, it would have 34 dps but in most of the situations ur not gonna reach it, plus, somewhy weirdly it has magical damage?? so you are not gonna do anything to cloth enemies, which are your objective as bruiser.

      Conclusion: As we can see, halberd is the most difficult axe to play, since you need to control your bleeding stacks to do a non ridiculous amount of damage, it is one of the only brawling/zvz weapons in the game that completely needs his q ability to not be extremely useless, which creates a really unfair scenario, and even doing ur qs perfectly, it steal doesnt reach the damage of greataxe, infernal scythe, realmbreaker and fucking battleaxe. Posibilities i'd say:

      Option 1 - Either change its damage to completely physical so at least you can do your objective of pressuring the enemy backlane and improve its damage.
      Option 2 - Nerf other axe's E damage and buff the Q bleeding a lot so halberd take advantage of it and the axes take another playstyle. (Personally dont like it a lot)
      Option 3 - Rework halberd E.
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      I don't play axes much, but after the greataxe rework halberd just vanihed from existence.
      Overdue for a buff.
      Its because axes, which are supposed to be a pressure bruiser weapon with its q bleeding mechanic, have become instead a clapper weapon since the only viable axes in zvz right now are greataxe and realmbreaker, its pretty sad because they no longer have personality, they are just like the others dps weapons but melee, i no longer see axes sustaining in enemy backlanes and making them struggle with decent bleedings and healing reductions, now its just a braindead person spinning into a clump deleting it without throwing a single q and getting out
    • Halberd E is a very cool design and actually very strong. problem however is that it relies on the Bleed portion to be effective and strong. Which currently they are not, nor do Axe Bleeds add any meaningful agency, decision making or interactive gameplay.

      If anything Axe Bleeds are a liability most of the time, as they keep you in combat, procc Cleric Robes/Avalonian Armor, used to purge you, etc etc. Axes used to be a high Pressure Weapon, not by burst but by high sustained damage and a whopping 20% Healing Reduction in a Meta where Healing was way lower over all too.

      That stupid as fuck Healing Reduction debuff is such a toxic mechanic and was a huge Balance Tax for Axes for so long now. It doesn't even add any meaningful nor interesting gameplay, it's just a static and toxic debuff, that is invisible.
      Not to mention, 9 dmg per Bleed Stack in Arena last time i checked, when people have 2000 health on average feels very rewarding not gonna lie. Thank god i have a 12% healing reduction on my Bleeds to make my gameplay feel impactful /s.

      The Moment Bleeds turn out to be strong again, Halberd E will rise in strength as well.


      My Suggestion to bring more Agency to Axes would be:

      - Remove Healing Reduction Debuff
      and either:
      Add a more meaningful Debuff progression with a more interactive effect

      or

      - Increase Bleed damage massively and remove Healing Reduction Debuff but have it be less spammy and with more of a decision making behind it, a little minigame to distract you, you could say to increase the skill gap.

      Stack 1 Minor Bleed DMG
      Stack 2 Moderate Bleed DMG
      Stack 3 Massive Bleed DMG; However next Q used, will reset Bleed Stack to 1. Or if it runs out, you need to start from 0.

      So now, you have very short duration (3s instead of 6, so you have very tight cooldown on Q's to apply Bleeds and not make Rending Rage be overpowered with this change) Bleeds, that require a thought process where you can't just mindlessly spam your Q's, you have to make sure you have proper Uptime and keep the Bleeds ticking as much as possible as to not reset it to a low damage Bleed instead and lose out on the DMG, like Demonfang E sort of.


      - Ideas for Debuff Progression

      Stack 1 Reduce Target Attackspeed by Y
      Stack 2 Reduce Target PHYSICAL Resistance by X
      Stack 3 Reduce Target Casting Speed by Z
      Stack 4 Reset back to 1

      This does not mean you get access to all Debuffs, but instead you need to keep a Target at a specific Stack to gain a specific Debuff, which means you need to stop using Q to keep it for the next 6 seconds. And thus prepare your attack timing appropriately.

      The post was edited 5 times, last by Ravname ().

    • menudobeta wrote:

      Its because axes, which are supposed to be a pressure bruiser weapon with its q bleeding mechanic, have become instead a clapper weapon since the only viable axes in zvz right now are greataxe and realmbreaker, its pretty sad because they no longer have personality, they are just like the others dps weapons but melee, i no longer see axes sustaining in enemy backlanes and making them struggle with decent bleedings and healing reductions, now its just a braindead person spinning into a clump deleting it without throwing a single q and getting out
      What do you think about increasing the Greataxe channel duration time, while also keeping the same overall damage, say to 3s or 3.5s?
      Reduced burst, slightly less DPS, but more uninterruptible channel time allowing to position yourself better.

      As of now the only counters to a spinning Greataxe are either roots or slows, where most of them are applied at melee range with some minor exceptions (Like the curse W, which nobody uses in group combat). When my tank attempts to stop a Greataxe he gets half of his face melted, which is unpleasant at the very least.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hattenhair ().

    • Hattenhair wrote:

      menudobeta wrote:

      Its because axes, which are supposed to be a pressure bruiser weapon with its q bleeding mechanic, have become instead a clapper weapon since the only viable axes in zvz right now are greataxe and realmbreaker, its pretty sad because they no longer have personality, they are just like the others dps weapons but melee, i no longer see axes sustaining in enemy backlanes and making them struggle with decent bleedings and healing reductions, now its just a braindead person spinning into a clump deleting it without throwing a single q and getting out
      What do you think about increasing the Greataxe channel duration time, while also keeping the same overall damage, say to 3s or 3.5s?Reduced burst, slightly less DPS, but more uninterruptible channel time allowing to position yourself better.

      As of now the only counters to a spinning Greataxe are either roots or slows, where most of them are applied at melee range with some minor exceptions (Like the curse W, which nobody uses in group combat). When my tank attempts to stop a Greataxe he gets half of his face melted, which is unpleasant at the very least.
      Im gonna be honest, greataxe doesnt really need a nerf except for the movement speed that they are already removing, its just that the fact that how viable is greataxe compared to halberd is insane, dont nerf greataxe but buff halberd or the bleeds so halberds come back from being a fucking plastic stick