How is holy explosion not being looked it

    • How is holy explosion not being looked it

      like 95% of healers I see are holy explosion. How is this not being looked at?

      Knockback/heal/resistance on whats like a 15 second cooldown with cooldown reduction.

      Seems so odd to me to let one thing dominate play so much.
    • +1 nature needs some love

      it is only usable now in 10+ content

      it should be Nature Or holy as main healer
      not HOLY (great holy/ hallowfall) main healer and nature sub healer

      BTW i am not into buffing nature's PvP damage. i will never agree to buffing nature to the point where it can solo pvp an actual dps

      i look only into buffing nature's PvP healing output and maybe their PvE damage
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      +1 nature needs some love

      it is only usable now in 10+ content

      it should be Nature Or holy as main healer
      not HOLY (great holy/ hallowfall) main healer and nature sub healer

      BTW i am not into buffing nature's PvP damage. i will never agree to buffing nature to the point where it can solo pvp an actual dps

      i look only into buffing nature's PvP healing output and maybe their PvE damage
      why on earth would someone not agree to balance a class to pvp??

      That is basically the same as old white man say we black woman deserve no good job..
    • i would not go that far as to be racist

      but put it this way

      if nature has damage (old thorns damage values + reflect) and improved healing output on E and W to be on par with holy
      then the weapon would be too strong for Solo PvP

      you cannot add any utility to a healing staff because if their damage is not regulated its not balanced. let me give 2 cases

      Hallow fall's mobility and the blight staff. traditionaly healing staves has no mobility as a down side of being near unkillable in a 1v1 scenario but this 2 had mobility into their E to make it unique / stronger.

      it made the Solo portion of the staff too strong and some build non viable such as poke builds because their healing from W and E can out heal their poke
      while having the similar damage poke, damage output

      for example warbow/badon vs blight staff/ hallow fall with mage cowl.

      tell me how warbow /badon wins against blight staff if the nature/holy damage output was not nerfed
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      i would not go that far as to be racist

      but put it this way

      if nature has damage (old thorns damage values + reflect) and improved healing output on E and W to be on par with holy
      then the weapon would be too strong for Solo PvP

      you cannot add any utility to a healing staff because if their damage is not regulated its not balanced. let me give 2 cases

      Hallow fall's mobility and the blight staff. traditionaly healing staves has no mobility as a down side of being near unkillable in a 1v1 scenario but this 2 had mobility into their E to make it unique / stronger.

      it made the Solo portion of the staff too strong and some build non viable such as poke builds because their healing from W and E can out heal their poke
      while having the similar damage poke, damage output

      for example warbow/badon vs blight staff/ hallow fall with mage cowl.

      tell me how warbow /badon wins against blight staff if the nature/holy damage output was not nerfed
      I reveal now something:

      murderledger.com/players/yid23…own_weapon=MAIN_HOLYSTAFF

      Why can I almost unchallenged play holy DPS and nature is forbidden??

      And holy is better in any other content, too.

      That is the definition of racisim
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      i would not go that far as to be racist

      but put it this way

      if nature has damage (old thorns damage values + reflect) and improved healing output on E and W to be on par with holy
      then the weapon would be too strong for Solo PvP

      you cannot add any utility to a healing staff because if their damage is not regulated its not balanced. let me give 2 cases

      Hallow fall's mobility and the blight staff. traditionaly healing staves has no mobility as a down side of being near unkillable in a 1v1 scenario but this 2 had mobility into their E to make it unique / stronger.

      it made the Solo portion of the staff too strong and some build non viable such as poke builds because their healing from W and E can out heal their poke
      while having the similar damage poke, damage output

      for example warbow/badon vs blight staff/ hallow fall with mage cowl.

      tell me how warbow /badon wins against blight staff if the nature/holy damage output was not nerfed
      And yet, 1H mace was and is still the king of all kinds of content. Nature after the reflect and great nature staff murder wasnt even in the top 100 of CD nor was it as broken as everyone made it out to be. Right now its worthless and the thorns attack is beyond trash they may as well just take it out.

      The nerf affected healers in a disproportionate way given that Holy can still hold its own with very niche builds but nature cant even reach 75% of its damage back. Idc about solo pvp since CD players will cry every time some niche build defeats their 1H mace meta build just let it be viable for PVE.
    • I never thought the previous nature thorns were all that OP back when CDs first launched. They had some damage with the trade off of virtually no mobility similar to curse. If anything maybe the reflection toned down some but the damage should not have been nerfed in my opinion. It was much better fighting the thorns nature than that cancer ass run away blight shit. Thorns needs a damage buff (yes nature should be able to have a chance to solo PvP similar to holy on smite).
    • Tabor wrote:

      I never thought the previous nature thorns were all that OP back when CDs first launched. They had some damage with the trade off of virtually no mobility similar to curse. If anything maybe the reflection toned down some but the damage should not have been nerfed in my opinion. It was much better fighting the thorns nature than that cancer ass run away blight shit. Thorns needs a damage buff (yes nature should be able to have a chance to solo PvP similar to holy on smite).
      The best nature was, as thorns was on W - a dot like curse. Someone turned it in a braindead AA build on the level of turret bow without any needs...

      Those were the time positioning, defences, rotations and knowledge was important..

      Then it got improved to a braindead bow copy
    • but the thing was curse do not heal. if it did through double merc jacket combo at least i know it is purgable / run away because i know it had a super long cooldown
      of 1 min

      nature / holy was healing while running away with low cooldowns then there was hallowfall and blight with mobility

      and just a reminder those healing values was for group play (the time where there was no 20% reduction in healing cast)
      and also weaker punishment for healing sickness


      in the end i prefer it the way it is where healers are for group content where they shine.
      if nature/holy is underpowered for group play i say buff it. healing staffs should be as strong as "great holy" in the things they do

      but for solo play just keep it out of corrupted dungeons period
      and for those very minor playerbase who like to role play solo fame farm with nature those can get the short end of the stick until the PvP part is sorted out for all i care
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      and for those very minor playerbase who like to role play solo fame farm with nature those can get the short end of the stick until the PvP part is sorted out for all i care

      The_Support_God wrote:

      tell me how warbow /badon wins against blight staff if the nature/holy damage output was not nerfed
      "Badon is a support for group fights, I dont care"
      You serious?
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      but the thing was curse do not heal. if it did through double merc jacket combo at least i know it is purgable / run away because i know it had a super long cooldown
      of 1 min

      nature / holy was healing while running away with low cooldowns then there was hallowfall and blight with mobility

      and just a reminder those healing values was for group play (the time where there was no 20% reduction in healing cast)
      and also weaker punishment for healing sickness


      in the end i prefer it the way it is where healers are for group content where they shine.
      if nature/holy is underpowered for group play i say buff it. healing staffs should be as strong as "great holy" in the things they do

      but for solo play just keep it out of corrupted dungeons period
      and for those very minor playerbase who like to role play solo fame farm with nature those can get the short end of the stick until the PvP part is sorted out for all i care
      first of double Merc has a CD of 30 seconds

      Just out of your white high tower..

      Nature is out allone - gets attacked, it cannot run, it has healing sickness if it goes full heal and it has no damage..so the class should not be able to do anything solo that gets in touch or in the risk of pvped.

      Again you want it with no movement, no heal and no damage?

      How can u expect to be taken serious?

      U want it barefoot, naked and in the kitchen..

      That makes me sick for the day.
    • I understand why holy explosion is never looked at. Thread get hi-jacked to talk about nature/holy healers needing to be same strength has other weapons for solo content.

      My take: The tree should have a weapon thats more dedicated to solo/damage. Which means it's E is damage only, then you can be nature or holy and level it and have a solo option. However if you wanna take ur hallowfall and then go solo kill ppl, no sir.


      but plz lets have them nerf great holy,

      knockback/resist/heal on one shortest cooldowns is bonkers.
    • iRawn wrote:

      Thread get hi-jacked to talk about nature/holy healers needing to be same strength has other weapons for solo content.
      Sorry lad, I had to do it to em.

      iRawn wrote:

      but plz lets have them nerf great holy,
      knockback/resist/heal on one shortest cooldowns is bonkers.
      The real question is what would you use for an alternative if GH were to be nerfed?
      Let's say you are in full cleric armour with a 60% healing modifier and compare 2-3 vaguely similar staves:
      Great holy (1504 IP):
      • 217 healing per tick per target (5 ticks total), using 18 energy for each.
        Single target:
        1085 healing for 90 energy per cast, or 4340 healing per minute for 360 energy.
        12.05 healing produced per energy consumed.
        5 Targets:
        5425 healing for 90 energy per cast or 21700 healing per minute for 360 energy.
        60.7 healing produced per energy consumed.
      • Pros: Knockback, Resistance increase, Low cooldown rotation (15s), Good radius (7m).
      • Cons: Have to be close to allies you want to heal, Easily interruptible (2.5s channel), Can't act during channel, Affects only 5 targets.
      Fallen (1522 IP):
      • Single target:
        1184 healing per cast using 80 energy, or 2368 healing per minute for 160 energy.
        14.8 healing produced per energy consumed.
        5 Targets:
        5920 healing per cast using 80 energy, or 11840 healing per minute for 160 energy.
        74 healing per energy consumed.
        10 Targets:
        10840 healing per cast using 80 energy, or 23680 healing per minute for 160 energy.
        148 healing per energy consumed.
      • Pros: Cleanse, Good cast range and radius (14m and 5.5m radius), Affects up to 10 targets.
      • Mixed: Delayed E landing, OK interrupt window (1s).
      • Cons: High cooldown (30s).
      These are just some basic calculations, yet if added with my personal opinion and experiences, I see 2 possible nerfs:
      Either decrease the radius down to ~6m to make it harder to utilise.
      AND/OR
      Increase the cooldown to ~18s to reduce it's overall effectiveness (Essentially giving it the Cleanse Heal treatment of a higher spell rotation).

      The_Support_God wrote:

      i would not go that far as to be racist
      but put it this way
      if nature has damage (old thorns damage values + reflect) and improved healing output on E and W to be on par with holy
      then the weapon would be too strong for Solo PvP
      you cannot add any utility to a healing staff because if their damage is not regulated its not balanced. let me give 2 cases
      Hallow fall's mobility and the blight staff. traditionaly healing staves has no mobility as a down side of being near unkillable in a 1v1 scenario but this 2 had mobility into their E to make it unique / stronger.
      it made the Solo portion of the staff too strong and some build non viable such as poke builds because their healing from W and E can out heal their poke
      while having the similar damage poke, damage output
      for example warbow/badon vs blight staff/ hallow fall with mage cowl.
      tell me how warbow /badon wins against blight staff if the nature/holy damage output was not nerfed

      The_Support_God wrote:

      but the thing was curse do not heal. if it did through double merc jacket combo at least i know it is purgable / run away because i know it had a super long cooldown
      of 1 min
      nature / holy was healing while running away with low cooldowns then there was hallowfall and blight with mobility
      and just a reminder those healing values was for group play (the time where there was no 20% reduction in healing cast)
      and also weaker punishment for healing sickness
      in the end i prefer it the way it is where healers are for group content where they shine.
      if nature/holy is underpowered for group play i say buff it. healing staffs should be as strong as "great holy" in the things they do
      but for solo play just keep it out of corrupted dungeons period
      and for those very minor playerbase who like to role play solo fame farm with nature those can get the short end of the stick until the PvP part is sorted out for all i care
      For fuck's sake... here we go again:
      • The recent healing output improvements are conditional: Blight needs allies to function at full capacity, Cleanse heal requires healing Q's to heal at full capacity, Druidic needs an ally to utilise the second recast, Hallowfall needs allies to get the cooldown reduction. Literally none of the new buffs function in solo content. NONE. All of them are geared towards group play as a healer. There are even skills that were changed in the process of CRD balance which were intended for group play, but got gutted for both content types regardless (Revitalise is a fucking meme).
      • "You cannot add any utility to a healing staff". Uhhh, what?
        The only type of utility a healer should not have is a high uptime reflect (Like the old thorns), since it synergises well with the health replenishment and punishes the attackers for attempting to pressure their target.
        The other debatable type is mobility, yet since the last time an immobile healer was practically invulnerable we have had various limiters introduced such as: Healing sickness, Healing reduction debuff, Damage reduction passive and even Corrupted bats for instances like CRD.

        As for everything else healers usually just have the defensive variant of the utility which damaging weaponry has:
        Armor shred is replaced with Armor buffs,
        CC is replaced with Cleanses or CC Immunities,
        Damage buffs are replaced with Healing increases,
        Burst damage is replaced with Burst healing,
        etc.

        And every single type of healer utility also has counters just as the DPS utility:
        Armor buffs are shredded or purged,
        Casts are interrupted,
        Healing received is cut,
        etc.

        Take the druidic seed vs a claymore in a 1v1 scenario for example (which was a pretty common choice for druids back then):
        Both wear 1060IP Cleric robes (~52% phys mitigation, 45% mag/phys/heal bonus)
        1060IP Claymore E at 3 stacks deals 1024*1.45*(1-0.52) = 712 Damage.
        Splitting slash deals 473*1.45*(1-0.52) = 329 Damage.
        1060IP Druidic seed heals 411*1.45 = 596 HP.
        If the seep pops under PoN the druid will receive 411*1.95 = 801-596 = 205 Additional HP.
        I'm not gonna go into deep analysis and walls of text here, but if the resistance increase is used correctly the additional damage mitigation should make the healing done and damage received about the same between 2 weapon E's and W's, perhaps a little less even.

        Now also include the fact that Claymore E has a 5s faster cooldown rate and additional utility like an I-frame or a 0.8s stun, while Druidic has none of that. Also remember the 20% healing reduction in CRD's.

        All of the above brings me to my next point:
      • The Q slot of your weapon is almost always the defining choice of any build: it always contributes to more than half of the damage or healing done (Excluding tanks, they rely more on W's and E's to do their job).

        So, here we go:
        Why healers were OP in solo content back before CRD's? They had both healing Q's and damaging W's (Fixed by moving the damaging spell to the Q slot).
        Why did healers dominate the kite meta in CRD's? They had:
        1 - an unlimited healing source on their Q slots (Fixed by introducing healing sickness and healing reduction),
        2 - having kiting tools and mobility intergated into their kits in combination with sustain on demand (Now fixed: Hallowfall E was given more cooldown if used without allies, Sacred pulse had it's cooldown increased to 12s, Blight had it's slow aura removed and healing done reduced if used without allies, Revitalise was staight up made unusable, etc.).
        3 - having damage sources in combination with a healing Q; Huh, what a coinsidence (Fixed by giving the healing staves a 50% damage reduction passive).

        And as a separate case the thorns were overtuned due to the healing-reflect synergy in their first iteration, but I talked over that in point 2.
      Now tell me again, why healers dont deserve to be a part of solo content?
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      +1 nature needs some love

      it is only usable now in 10+ content

      it should be Nature Or holy as main healer
      not HOLY (great holy/ hallowfall) main healer and nature sub healer

      BTW i am not into buffing nature's PvP damage. i will never agree to buffing nature to the point where it can solo pvp an actual dps

      i look only into buffing nature's PvP healing output and maybe their PvE damage

      this is my stance. I rather introduce new mechanics which buffs the healing portion of the build mobility/ utility / healing of nature staves / rework them
      and make them as strong and as viable as the current great holy or as slippery as hallowfall back when it was released for group content purposes only

      BUT Big BUT

      i would not agree to it having damage to players (solo enviroment) as high as it was "rise of avalon patch"

      i also am against the PVE damage being touched because EVEN HOLY and NATURE needs PVE

      so to @Trial_hard Natures in my opinion Nature should have to tools to run away but not be able to fight 1vX like great nature was able to back then

      end of story
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      The_Support_God wrote:

      +1 nature needs some love

      it is only usable now in 10+ content

      it should be Nature Or holy as main healer
      not HOLY (great holy/ hallowfall) main healer and nature sub healer

      BTW i am not into buffing nature's PvP damage. i will never agree to buffing nature to the point where it can solo pvp an actual dps

      i look only into buffing nature's PvP healing output and maybe their PvE damage
      this is my stance. I rather introduce new mechanics which buffs the healing portion of the build mobility/ utility / healing of nature staves / rework them
      and make them as strong and as viable as the current great holy or as slippery as hallowfall back when it was released for group content purposes only

      BUT Big BUT

      i would not agree to it having damage to players (solo enviroment) as high as it was "rise of avalon patch"

      i also am against the PVE damage being touched because EVEN HOLY and NATURE needs PVE

      so to @Trial_hard Natures in my opinion Nature should have to tools to run away but not be able to fight 1vX like great nature was able to back then

      end of story
      great nature was able to 1 on X for 8 seconds if none of the X had big damage / stun / purge.

      What u call a group of 4 in which none has big one time damage / interrupt / purge in none of the 4?

      Your party?