Just delete the nature weapon tree

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    • Trial_hard wrote:

      ah okay - if holy outperform nature in all heal group activities & nature is dead in solo & PvE - then I agree:
      It has it's pros and cons, but there are much more cons than pros. Starting with hard to learn stack management and ending it with multiple shit staves which are borderline unusable (1H, GN, IR, Rampant to a certain extent).

      The only place where druid outperforms holy is CL with Druidic and Blight for 10-player groups as a second healer in the party. Not too keen on ZvZ so I dont know how much Wild is worse or better than Fallen, but considering how shite the stack distribution is with mushrooms I would instantly give holy the benefit of the doubt.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      Trial_hard wrote:

      ah okay - if holy outperform nature in all heal group activities & nature is dead in solo & PvE - then I agree:
      It has it's pros and cons, but there are much more cons than pros. Starting with hard to learn stack management and ending it with multiple shit staves which are borderline unusable (1H, GN, IR, Rampant to a certain extent).
      The only place where druid outperforms holy is CL with Druidic and Blight for 10-player groups as a second healer in the party. Not too keen on ZvZ so I dont know how much Wild is worse or better than Fallen, but considering how shite the stack distribution is with mushrooms I would instantly give holy the benefit of the doubt.
      I am not competent in anything above 2v2 or max group play is 2 vs X ..where is x is between 2 and 8...

      The rest i try avoid.
    • Fabrizziou wrote:

      Nature line needs a whole rework, right now it's very outshined by holy line in most content, holy is far easier to use and learn
      Not really.

      I could fix it in 10 mins

      Actually these 2 changes quick fix it

      1) damage reducting goes as soon as q = hot
      2) thorns are spamable with no standtime and a CD of first q - then passive will work -

      Done - nature is playable again solo and in pve
    • Trial_hard wrote:

      Done - nature is playable again solo and in pve
      I mean rework most E's, maybe some W's and Q's fix that u suggest
      From 7 staffs 3 are barely used and effective

      - 1h nature: nah... not even for group pve
      -GNature: meme or newbie trolling
      - Wild staff: zvz and pve
      - Druidic: 5v5
      - Blight: 10v10 offmeta and open world maybe
      - Rampant: zvz maybe? idk not sure
      - Ironroot: "viable" for 2v2
      War Gloves supremacy
    • could make 3 rejuv stacks give a small resistance buff, maybe even a little movespeed increase (5%?)
      also probably due for a Q3 buff and new W
      obviously great nature needs serious buffs (make it unpurgable please) and 1h nature could use a touch-up (maybe an extra effect on 3 rejuv stacks?)

      I love nature and I don't think its bad rn, mainly because of cleanse heal, but I think it could use some buffs for larger scale combat (Q3 should be playable in 7-20)
      obviously holy (and specifically new Q3) is much easier to play, but as long as nature has higher skill cap potential its fine

      maybe the next mage line will be some sort of healing staff?
      ~ Kanra
    • i dont think nature is bad at all in 5v5 up to 10v10, but its definitely carried by cleanse heal as the other w's are kinda crap. dont really have experience with zvz but its annoying you cant tell which stacks are yours vs other nature in big groups, wish they were clearly highlighted dif or something. I think 1h nature is underrated and really basically on par with druid, but agree great nature and ironroot need changes,

      my suggestion for great nature is lower cooldown to 20s, nerf duration to 4s, double healing and make it unpurgable. basically give it the cultist cowl change so its not dumb that you cant attack someone for 8s, but at least basically forces a target swap for 4s.

      idk about ironroot, its too gimmicky with too many counters, i suggest complete rework.

      revitalize should be made ally only (cant target self) to match holy beam, but then it no longer is interrupted by damage.

      protection of nature could be reworked slightly to be more versatile. maybe make it work with different effects depending on number of stacks of rejuv someone has when cast. gives current buff w 1 stack, maybe a run buff w 2 stacks, and a big damage absorb shield for 3seconds with 3 stacks or some such.

      thorns is horribly boring and wish they would just make it something more fun to use, but smite is pretty boring also so /shrug.
    • I think playing into the HoT's more for Nature would go a long way.
      Like for example, instead of giving mana back on the 4th Q on the same Target, it could heal the remaining HoT duration instantly. Thus create a more varied decision making for Nature, where mana efficiency or fast heals are the two to think about. Also would add a higher skill floor for good players.
      Like for example, 1 Q HoT heals 120 HP over 8 seconds, stacks up to 3 Times. If you had 3 Stacks with 50% duration left and were to use a 4th Q on said target, it would give a burst of 160 HP instead of having to wait 4 seconds to heal that said HP over time.

      Or could make that into a new W tbh (Maybe call it Protection of Nature? ;) ). Perhaps add or rework some Spells into more HoT based as well. To have Holy and Nature be distinct from each other with different Strengths, rather than having one better than the other with number tweaks.


      Nature has some phenomenal skills, especially the E's. The Issue Nature has imo, is that the Q Skills aren't reliable enough. Be it in Dungeons or in high burst PvP situations.
      Holy Flash is much superior to the Mushroom, Mushroom heals 50% less than Holy Flash does, with the same CD. And Holy Flash is an instant Heal, whereas Mushroom has to ramp up to 8 seconds.

      There needs to be more Agency for Nature's Q's, be it with multi purpose effects or a better synergy between Q's and W's, take Cleanse as a really good example here. It is much harder to play than Holy but doesn't offer the same rewards for playing well.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Ravname ().

    • Lockemup wrote:

      idk about ironroot, its too gimmicky with too many counters, i suggest complete rework.
      It's alright on paper, I even tend to run 2v2's with IR from time to time.
      But there are some critical issues with it:
      • Bugged E cast - in some specific scenarios you might end up soul linking one target to itself, effectively wasting the spell (related to targeting, i.e: First cast E on yourself with the Alt modifier, then hover target yourself for the second link).
      • Gargabe targeting system - every time you don't follow the order of first linking your ally then yourself, you almost always loose your currently selected target and are forced to use "smart hover targetting", which is another piece of garbage in of itself.
      As for balance-related issues theres just 2 IMO:
      • The standtime on the finishing the link is unneeded - make it fully castable on the move.
      • Ally-Enemy link needs serious buffs or a rework - literally nobody uses it.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • nature healers with resistance/movespeed passive are generally harder to kill than holy healers, I find holy healers very predictable to come and interrupt

      That said nature as a healer weapon isn't that a viable choice anymore in new patch, maybe only optimal in ratting outposts or solo content
    • To me playing Nature in ZvZ feels like Holy just does everything better although Nature requires way more effort. Applied three stacks of Rejuvenation hitting that Q like a maniac? Holy comes by uses one Q and the job is done. Now you can use Cleanse Heal on W. Stack up a player and give a generous heal to that one player and 4 others - maybe you even manage to stack up more, while they all run around like frightened chicken - or... a Holy just uses a Q3 and heals 5 players generously. The alternative Rejuvenating Breeze turns you into a healing sickness super-spreader, basically hindering Holy healers. You have no control at all. It doesn't even pick the ones that need healing... in bigger groups sometimes you even manage to spread it to everyone except the ones that actually needed it.

      So yes, I couldn't agree more with the stack management issues, it's way too difficult and error prone for the received outcome. Only your own stacks count for skills like Cleanse Heal or Rejuvenating Breeze, but they visually all look the same. If lag is involved, then it gets really confusing and I don't know how many times I needed to start over because of this mana replenishment. Rejuvenating Mushroom gives you even less control, not sure why anyone would use it.

      Thorns skill definitely needs a change, what a hassle.

      Wild staff E combined with Judicator armour isn't too bad, but people usually pass through quickly. Nothing a Holy couldn't do with a Q, but of course it depends on how long people stay on that one spot.

      I really like the new Rampant E. Great flexibility and it plays very nicely, except in castles. Placing the cursor over the wall and dropping it lets the deer walk in any direction except the indicated one (was before the Lands Awakened patch, maybe that was fixed). I'm not sure about the actual combat value as it scales with the number of people on the path and the path is really narrow. Rampant has more flexibility, but if only one player runs on it... it's just laughable. No clumping, right?

      Blight Staff seems bugged since the last nerf. Somehow the shown radius doesn't reflect the healing field or it doesn't recognise the people inside it sometimes. Might be due to my ping > 130, but it worked before the nerf, so no clue.

      In my opinion the total healing output for the ZvZ nature staffs look comparable to Holy on paper, but it misses the dynamics of larger battles. Due to their static spells they'll mostly deliver only a fraction of their actual healing output. While falling back with enemies at your back, waiting a second for a Fallen E can be rational decision, waiting a second in a Well of Life is suicidal. Not even talking about saving a whole clump with a Fallen E, which must be very satisfying. You'll never experience something like that with Nature.
    • Seraphymn wrote:

      nature healers with resistance/movespeed passive are generally harder to kill than holy healers, I find holy healers very predictable to come and interrupt

      That said nature as a healer weapon isn't that a viable choice anymore in new patch, maybe only optimal in ratting outposts or solo content
      nope - that is my expertise. It is not viable in solo nor in ratting anything..

      Ratting outposts the better healer is battle axe ..

      If we continue to keep it discussed we might get it fixed in 6-12 months..keep it going..
    • Look I mean - example great nature

      Imagine you play as the devs expect:

      You put thorns on and have hmm cleanse heal? Or beam? Or blessing? And nature shield


      And you go OW.. you now first realize, you need soup as a nature healer, because that makes u heal small mob groups faster

      You then realize, you cannot do bosses..because they hit hard and your nature shield just works against many small hits..

      You find a gatherer that wants to hold you from mobs..the gatherer puts on a purge helmet and you have thorns that need 5 stacks to do low damage, while u nature shield is insta purged, or in case of a missing purge they just wait hit u..

      Then u as great nature look at group content, you don't find a group all say u skills are shit..

      U decide to go gather, but u have no Mobility..

      You sadly come here and sign ..delete great nature and avoid new players fall for it..
    • Cast complexity is fun, don't delete the violin. But yes, some spells are too low: The beam ! And it's to easy to cancel (1H staff E for ex).
      Many side effects have been nerfed (reflect of the Q attack, 2H E...).
      I repeat, complexity is fun, that's what makes nature interesting.