[Update] HCE Ninja Changes and Some Thoughts

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    • Mandala wrote:

      In my opinion main problem here is these changes not being in the patch notes. As others said there is a decent amount of players doing HCE and giving them a heads up would be the professional thing to do.
      I agree and I am still waiting for an official response.

      Mandala wrote:

      For people that are threatening leaving I don't know what to say... Maps will be harder, rewards won't be as good but the content is not getting scrapped. So why exactly are you leaving?
      The changes are not balanced to the point it is like getting scrapped. As mentioned in the previous posts, with the test server changes, for around 1/3 of the maps, the highest levels can only be finished by a handful of best players with the full elite specs. It is really hard to explain because I know it must sound like someone whining about some simple changes. But the health buff to the boss will really raise the bars to be unreasonably high. Let me attempt this:

      For ava dungeon, when leaders look for members, the basic requirement is that one should be in comms and above 1600+ IP for DPS, stricter for tanks and off tanks. Almost no prior knowledge is required for non-key roles. You start with those non-key roles anyways.
      For the test server HCE, if I were to look for members for an lvl.18 map, here are my expectations:
      • full 8.3 MP gear set
      • 840/840 off hands, at least 20 elite levels in the main hand (again, stricter for tanks)
      • willing to consume .2 food and above
      • be in comms
      • bring several swap gears for the boss and some special mobs, if it is for DPS, they must be in 8.3 too and you should at least have 700/700 spec if not higher
      • veteran HCE map knowledge and can deal with most emergency situations
      With those requirements, 2/3 of the maps are (barely) doable if everybody communicates and pays attention.
      For those remaining 1/3,
      • Eternal Battle: One player must be a god shadow caller that knows how to purge between 3 and 4 stacks just when the boss is in the middle of auto-attack animation every single time. The tank should use ice block, royal shoes to dodge as much damage as possible, and never miss one single iframe. At most 2 tries at this boss.
      • Fungi: A shadow caller who eats 7.3 omelette and can catch reliably to time freeze the boss from its turtle shield for 75% duration of the boss fight. By the way, I have not yet had the pleasure to meet one single player who can do this. If anyone fails, I don't think there is a second chance.
      • Fistful of silver: I don't know, either tank or healer has to work it out with one another.
      • Raven: ...Top DPS in the games only. I also expect them to know banana mechanics by heart.
      You may say I am exaggerating, but honest to god I am not doing that. This will be what I need if I want a high pass rate. That is assuming those good players want to play with me.

      Let me make this extremely large so I can be clear:
      • The above requirement is not just about skills that can be obtained through repetitive practice
      • It needs good internet and server connection to pull it off, too!
      • If Albion lags, no matter how good you are, the map is gone
      • A large population of HCE players deals with suboptimal server connections all the time due to their physical distance to the servers
      • It is literally region gating to some extent
      So really, it is more like "Maps will be so difficult to the extent that I need 5 extremely good NA/EU players to do it, the rewards are nerfed, might as well wear some crap gear, go to black zone and kill some buffed mobs"

      The post was edited 1 time, last by G0000000 ().

    • Hello everyone,

      busy week so my reply is a little late. I am very sorry that wasn't able to answer your concerns earlier.
      The changes to hardcore expeditions will part of the next version of the patch notes.
      I'll will post them here as well:

      Hardcore Expeditions

      In order to ensure Hardcore Expeditions are properly aligned with other features, a reduction to the overall rewards was necessary.

      We also increased how much power the enemies in Expeditions gain per level to compensate for the newly introduced Elite Levels. There will be no changes to Level 1 Expeditions, but it will slightly increase each level until it reaches its peak at +5% more damage and hit points at level 15 and beyond.

      Our view is that Hardcore Expeditions should be the most challenging and rewarding safe-zone content in Albion Online, but they should never be so rewarding as to draw in players who would otherwise be willing to brave the risks of the Open World.

      The Fame / Silver rewards for each level of Hardcore expeditions have been adjusted as follows:

      Fame Changes / Silver Changes

      • Hardcore Expeditions 1: 0% / 0%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 2: -1% / -1%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 3: -2% / -1%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 4: -2% / -3%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 5: -3% / -5%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 6: -4% / -8%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 7: -4% / -11%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 8: -5% / -6%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 9: -6% / -6%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 10: -6% / -7%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 11: -7% / -8%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 12: -8% / -9%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 13: -9% / -9%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 14: -9% / -10%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 15+: -10% / -10%


      Since the testing servers went live we have been discussing the changes internally and adjusted them.
      The mentioned changes changes to mob and boss health beyond what is written in the notes above have been unintentional and are going to be reverted.

      Should you find anything off that is not mentioned please report that as a bug.

      Best regards,
      Thorn
    • Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

      Hello everyone,

      busy week so my reply is a little late. I am very sorry that wasn't able to answer your concerns earlier.
      The changes to hardcore expeditions will part of the next version of the patch notes.
      I'll will post them here as well:

      Hardcore Expeditions

      In order to ensure Hardcore Expeditions are properly aligned with other features, a reduction to the overall rewards was necessary.

      We also increased how much power the enemies in Expeditions gain per level to compensate for the newly introduced Elite Levels. There will be no changes to Level 1 Expeditions, but it will slightly increase each level until it reaches its peak at +5% more damage and hit points at level 15 and beyond.

      Our view is that Hardcore Expeditions should be the most challenging and rewarding safe-zone content in Albion Online, but they should never be so rewarding as to draw in players who would otherwise be willing to brave the risks of the Open World.

      The Fame / Silver rewards for each level of Hardcore expeditions have been adjusted as follows:

      Fame Changes / Silver Changes

      • Hardcore Expeditions 1: 0% / 0%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 2: -1% / -1%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 3: -2% / -1%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 4: -2% / -3%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 5: -3% / -5%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 6: -4% / -8%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 7: -4% / -11%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 8: -5% / -6%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 9: -6% / -6%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 10: -6% / -7%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 11: -7% / -8%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 12: -8% / -9%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 13: -9% / -9%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 14: -9% / -10%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 15+: -10% / -10%

      Since the testing servers went live we have been discussing the changes internally and adjusted them.
      The mentioned changes changes to mob and boss health beyond what is written in the notes above have been unintentional and are going to be reverted.

      Should you find anything off that is not mentioned please report that as a bug.

      Best regards,
      Thorn
      Thanks for the infos Thorn.
    • Thanks @Thorn-Delwyn for making the changes clear.

      "Our view is that Hardcore Expeditions should be the most challenging and rewarding safe-zone content in Albion Online, but they should never be so rewarding as to draw in players who would otherwise be willing to brave the risks of the Open World."

      It took a long time but I am happy to see SBI has changed their view on HCE.
    • The contents that can be done as solo player (without a guild): Corrupted Dungeon, HCE, (maybe) 2v2 hellgate, hoarding money (laborers, professions, trading between royal cities)

      I am sure most of the solo players are doing CD and HCE. If you kill HCE, you might lose these players.

      HCE only players are not doing only HCE because it is so much better. They do it because they are not interested in the rock-paper-scissor or 8v1 PvP of this game.
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • I am reading this topic and I find it hilarious that bad players who has no idea about HCE is crying here how HCE is too much compared to other activities.

      If SBI would remove the "Silver collected" ranking or include the incomes from PvP/trading/crafting, you'd have no problem with HCE.

      Because these bad players who has no idea (and also not enough brain capacity to think) would have no idea about how much you can earn from HCE.

      Bad players who cry over a content they have no idea about.

      Karens of Albion Online.
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • You are looking at some highly successfull player and behaving like a bad feminist. You see there are 100 ultra-rich successfull men and you think all the men are ultra-rich succesfull. So kill all men! Use your brain. You have google, use it, learn, try to use your brain... You achieve more like that than crying over something you have no connection to.
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • Thorn-Delwyn wrote:





      Our view is that Hardcore Expeditions should be the most challenging and rewarding safe-zone content in Albion Online, but they should never be so rewarding as to draw in players who would otherwise be willing to brave the risks of the Open World.Since the testing servers went live we have been discussing the changes internally and adjusted them.


      Include the silver income from PvP/trading/laborers/market/etc. Let's see if HCE players still be on top in SILVER LOOTING. :-] (guess you won't huh?)

      That is SILVER PICKED FROM GROUND. In albion the only income is not what you PICK FROM GROUND. Karen.
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • Meh, tried to write numbers but deleted since Karens would not understand anyway (atleast they did not last time when I wrote, guess Karens don't change, right?)
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

      Hello everyone,

      busy week so my reply is a little late. I am very sorry that wasn't able to answer your concerns earlier.
      The changes to hardcore expeditions will part of the next version of the patch notes.
      I'll will post them here as well:

      Hardcore Expeditions

      In order to ensure Hardcore Expeditions are properly aligned with other features, a reduction to the overall rewards was necessary.

      We also increased how much power the enemies in Expeditions gain per level to compensate for the newly introduced Elite Levels. There will be no changes to Level 1 Expeditions, but it will slightly increase each level until it reaches its peak at +5% more damage and hit points at level 15 and beyond.

      Our view is that Hardcore Expeditions should be the most challenging and rewarding safe-zone content in Albion Online, but they should never be so rewarding as to draw in players who would otherwise be willing to brave the risks of the Open World.

      The Fame / Silver rewards for each level of Hardcore expeditions have been adjusted as follows:

      Fame Changes / Silver Changes

      • Hardcore Expeditions 1: 0% / 0%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 2: -1% / -1%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 3: -2% / -1%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 4: -2% / -3%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 5: -3% / -5%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 6: -4% / -8%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 7: -4% / -11%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 8: -5% / -6%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 9: -6% / -6%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 10: -6% / -7%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 11: -7% / -8%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 12: -8% / -9%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 13: -9% / -9%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 14: -9% / -10%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 15+: -10% / -10%

      Since the testing servers went live we have been discussing the changes internally and adjusted them.
      The mentioned changes changes to mob and boss health beyond what is written in the notes above have been unintentional and are going to be reverted.

      Should you find anything off that is not mentioned please report that as a bug.

      Best regards,
      Thorn
      So there is no HCE nerf at all.... +5% heal = mastery bonus

      -10% fame/silver = the total eco get nerfed.
    • Malkalma wrote:

      You are looking at some highly successfull player and behaving like a bad feminist. You see there are 100 ultra-rich successfull men and you think all the men are ultra-rich succesfull. So kill all men! Use your brain. You have google, use it, learn, try to use your brain... You achieve more like that than crying over something you have no connection to.
      you don't take examples from the average player/casual.

      You always look at people who min-max and balance...
      Stop choosing your narrative to suit you.
    • Quagga wrote:

      Malkalma wrote:

      You are looking at some highly successfull player and behaving like a bad feminist. You see there are 100 ultra-rich successfull men and you think all the men are ultra-rich succesfull. So kill all men! Use your brain. You have google, use it, learn, try to use your brain... You achieve more like that than crying over something you have no connection to.
      you don't take examples from the average player/casual.
      You always look at people who min-max and balance...
      Stop choosing your narrative to suit you.

      Right. So let's make a 90% tax on everyones property. Google says Musk has 335b net worth. He still gonna have 30b+. I mean you are right, 90% is even low. There is nothing you can do with 30b that you can't do with 3b. Let's make a 99% tax. Now go and ask middle-lower class people what it feels like their house (if they have) worth a couple of thousands.

      Do you see how dumb you sound?
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • Malkalma wrote:

      Right. So let's make a 90% tax on everyones property. Google says Musk has 335b net worth. He still gonna have 30b+. I mean you are right, 90% is even low. There is nothing you can do with 30b that you can't do with 3b. Let's make a 99% tax. Now go and ask middle-lower class people what it feels like their house (if they have) worth a couple of thousands.

      Do you see how dumb you sound?
      Once again you use examples that suit you.

      You seem to have emotional problems if you treat the game like a life IRL... although HCE is the only livelihood for some.

      Taking your average/casual rhetoric.
      then any nerf that has been introduced over the last years makes no sense because HCE "isn't broken".

      if people who min-max are "breaking" the game then you need to balance.

      The only factor that plays a role in HCE is TIME.
      Ask yourself what you would prefer DAILY LIMIT on an HCE or % nerf :)
    • Quagga wrote:

      Malkalma wrote:

      Right. So let's make a 90% tax on everyones property. Google says Musk has 335b net worth. He still gonna have 30b+. I mean you are right, 90% is even low. There is nothing you can do with 30b that you can't do with 3b. Let's make a 99% tax. Now go and ask middle-lower class people what it feels like their house (if they have) worth a couple of thousands.

      Do you see how dumb you sound?
      Once again you use examples that suit you.
      You seem to have emotional problems if you treat the game like a life IRL... although HCE is the only livelihood for some.

      Taking your average/casual rhetoric.
      then any nerf that has been introduced over the last years makes no sense because HCE "isn't broken".

      if people who min-max are "breaking" the game then you need to balance.

      The only factor that plays a role in HCE is TIME.
      Ask yourself what you would prefer DAILY LIMIT on an HCE or % nerf :)
      I am using IRL example for Karens like you. But Karens are Karens for a reason...
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • When I ask about the ganking videos on youtube where 2 players make 20m under 20 seconds I get the answer that I should not use them as example since the avg ganker is not having that much success...

      When I say to don't take 20 players who are spending 90 hours out of 168 hours for farming HCE as example Karens tells me that it is not right and they are the perfect example how broken HCE is.

      So feels like you: "Once again you use examples that suit you."

      Karens makes no sense.
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • Malkalma wrote:

      When I ask about the ganking videos on youtube where 2 players make 20m under 20 seconds I get the answer that I should not use them as example since the avg ganker is not having that much success...

      When I say to don't take 20 players who are spending 90 hours out of 168 hours for farming HCE as example Karens tells me that it is not right and they are the perfect example how broken HCE is.

      So feels like you: "Once again you use examples that suit you."

      Karens makes no sense.
      I can see you're out of control, there's no point in talking anymore. Hold on :thumbup:
      edit: you compare RNG to constant profit, there is no need to say more :)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Quagga ().

    • Quagga wrote:

      Malkalma wrote:

      When I ask about the ganking videos on youtube where 2 players make 20m under 20 seconds I get the answer that I should not use them as example since the avg ganker is not having that much success...

      When I say to don't take 20 players who are spending 90 hours out of 168 hours for farming HCE as example Karens tells me that it is not right and they are the perfect example how broken HCE is.

      So feels like you: "Once again you use examples that suit you."

      Karens makes no sense.
      I can see you're out of control, there's no point in talking anymore. Hold on :thumbup:
      Atleast you accept that I am right and you are a Karen, even if you don't tell us. That's some development :-]
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • Quagga wrote:

      Malkalma wrote:

      When I ask about the ganking videos on youtube where 2 players make 20m under 20 seconds I get the answer that I should not use them as example since the avg ganker is not having that much success...

      When I say to don't take 20 players who are spending 90 hours out of 168 hours for farming HCE as example Karens tells me that it is not right and they are the perfect example how broken HCE is.

      So feels like you: "Once again you use examples that suit you."

      Karens makes no sense.
      I can see you're out of control, there's no point in talking anymore. Hold on :thumbup: edit: you compare RNG to constant profit, there is no need to say more :)
      Here we see a Karen who never played HCE therefore never saw teleporting/false located mobs while hitting the tank 2-2,5k / hit. Mixed with the albion-type-laggs.
      Deathskills says 150m silvers is too much for 84-112 hours of active gameplay out of 168 hours a week has. Does not answer how much a ganker does under that time. This player is a joke.
    • Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

      Hello everyone,

      busy week so my reply is a little late. I am very sorry that wasn't able to answer your concerns earlier.
      The changes to hardcore expeditions will part of the next version of the patch notes.
      I'll will post them here as well:

      Hardcore Expeditions

      In order to ensure Hardcore Expeditions are properly aligned with other features, a reduction to the overall rewards was necessary.

      We also increased how much power the enemies in Expeditions gain per level to compensate for the newly introduced Elite Levels. There will be no changes to Level 1 Expeditions, but it will slightly increase each level until it reaches its peak at +5% more damage and hit points at level 15 and beyond.

      Our view is that Hardcore Expeditions should be the most challenging and rewarding safe-zone content in Albion Online, but they should never be so rewarding as to draw in players who would otherwise be willing to brave the risks of the Open World.

      The Fame / Silver rewards for each level of Hardcore expeditions have been adjusted as follows:

      Fame Changes / Silver Changes

      • Hardcore Expeditions 1: 0% / 0%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 2: -1% / -1%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 3: -2% / -1%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 4: -2% / -3%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 5: -3% / -5%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 6: -4% / -8%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 7: -4% / -11%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 8: -5% / -6%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 9: -6% / -6%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 10: -6% / -7%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 11: -7% / -8%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 12: -8% / -9%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 13: -9% / -9%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 14: -9% / -10%
      • Hardcore Expeditions 15+: -10% / -10%

      Since the testing servers went live we have been discussing the changes internally and adjusted them.
      The mentioned changes changes to mob and boss health beyond what is written in the notes above have been unintentional and are going to be reverted.

      Should you find anything off that is not mentioned please report that as a bug.

      Best regards,
      Thorn
      Thank you for your response. I am not sure why silver and fame are getting nerfed to be honest as open world mobs (even in yellow zones) give stupid amount of fame on test server right now. You don't even need to nerf anything in order to show players that other content is better.

      If you want HCE players out in the open you can do this:
      Please some HCE portals in the open world (bz only) and make it so that if you are using that portal you gain some crazy buff to fame and silver. When I say bz I do not mean rest areas or HOs. I mean - nothing around it, in the middle of the zone - HCE portal. You want the best fame and silver - you go and do it from there. To make it even more appealing you make the portal move around and that it is not static in one place.

      Come on GM accounts go invis and camp the area. Watch the blood bath :)