The world would be better without demon cape

    • The world would be better without demon cape

      There are some items in game, that shouldn't exist at all.

      Look at all the capes, none is as toxic as demon cape.

      None demands more counters than demon cape.

      Example:

      1 shot dagger: Land one shadowedge W, hit u autoA, one stun from helmet & E.
      The entire combo is heavy, but demon cape makes it granted one shot unless u have cleric Chowl.

      Grail seeker & Tombhammer in plate. Hands down, plate should not be able to oneshot people. A tank should be a tank, low to medium damage but not capable of one shot. Demon cape makes it possible

      One shot pike - you know what I am talking about

      The list is very long but in the end demon cape enables toxic unfun one shot which should not exist.

      The game would have dramatic less balance issues and be much easier to balance if demon cape would be reworked

      A very simple rework would be to give it a hot option.
      Example, all 40 (IP) seconds if u health is below 50% u have for 4...6 seconds the SRD green nature buff

      Or give it an escape buff for gatherer..
      All 30 seconds if u take damage u movespeed is increased for 3 seconds by 100 %

      Or u W skill cooldown is reset..

      And now think how much easier balancing the game would be..

      I am strongly recommend to rework demon cape - and get rid of a balance nightmare..

      And then u can start nerv cleric chowl and such
    • while i agree demon cape is on the strong side
      which enables one shot builds and even tanks to deal substantial damage with a 8.3 cape

      but without any form of cc build to go with the cape it is one of the weakest cape out there
      second only to heretic cape.
      Undead cape comes in close ever since the nerf but considering you could still attack during the invis makes it still decent

      i use it in my 8.3 1h mace set because there is no other cape that would go well with all the cc i output and i do not need more survivability
      hence i go demon cape because it provides the damage my build lacks


      To be honest this is one of the hardest questions i ever had to reply because on one side i agree its a build enabling cape while on the other without proper counters aka cleric cowl, pre pop cleric robe, pre pop hunter hood, guardian boots, res pot you are bound to take heavy damage / die in most cases

      i have died to this several times my self and i found that using leather(merc jacket badon) and plate (armor of valor) helps dramatically in surviving the cc chain/ one shot
      50% of the time without perfect timing of cloth (cleric robe) or other defensive skills 1 shot builds would most certainly kill you

      In Conclusion, i put out several bottom lines when it comes to 1 shot builds
      1) Cloth should die/eat heavy damage if they misplay their defenses because they are glass cannon.
      2) the person playing one shot should commit 100% of their build in offensive items/gear to be able to one shot. meaning if they miss their chance they are screwed and need to escape. any less and they have to put in some autos to get the job done
      3) people in plate armor can never take more then 30% of a target's health in one combo meaning they need 3 rotations of skills to kill a target in cloth and 4-5 rotations to kill a leather

      of course in practice the said weapons/builds have mobility and cc to protect themselves if something goes wrong

      therefore while i agree that demon cape needs to be changed. it should remain as a damage cape as an alternative for thetford cape and some build which needs dps instead of Utility

      On side note a lot of of capes have very terrible scaling and demon and thetford capes are the only capes worth scaling and i wish other capes have better scaling as well
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      while i agree demon cape is on the strong side
      which enables one shot builds and even tanks to deal substantial damage with a 8.3 cape

      but without any form of cc build to go with the cape it is one of the weakest cape out there
      second only to heretic cape.
      Undead cape comes in close ever since the nerf but considering you could still attack during the invis makes it still decent

      i use it in my 8.3 1h mace set because there is no other cape that would go well with all the cc i output and i do not need more survivability
      hence i go demon cape because it provides the damage my build lacks


      To be honest this is one of the hardest questions i ever had to reply because on one side i agree its a build enabling cape while on the other without proper counters aka cleric cowl, pre pop cleric robe, pre pop hunter hood, guardian boots, res pot you are bound to take heavy damage / die in most cases

      i have died to this several times my self and i found that using leather(merc jacket badon) and plate (armor of valor) helps dramatically in surviving the cc chain/ one shot
      50% of the time without perfect timing of cloth (cleric robe) or other defensive skills 1 shot builds would most certainly kill you

      In Conclusion, i put out several bottom lines when it comes to 1 shot builds
      1) Cloth should die/eat heavy damage if they misplay their defenses because they are glass cannon.
      2) the person playing one shot should commit 100% of their build in offensive items/gear to be able to one shot. meaning if they miss their chance they are screwed and need to escape. any less and they have to put in some autos to get the job done
      3) people in plate armor can never take more then 30% of a target's health in one combo meaning they need 3 rotations of skills to kill a target in cloth and 4-5 rotations to kill a leather

      of course in practice the said weapons/builds have mobility and cc to protect themselves if something goes wrong

      therefore while i agree that demon cape needs to be changed. it should remain as a damage cape as an alternative for thetford cape and some build which needs dps instead of Utility

      On side note a lot of of capes have very terrible scaling and demon and thetford capes are the only capes worth scaling and i wish other capes have better scaling as well
      well, i have learned that healers shell heal and tanks she'll tank.

      That's the story, right?

      Now demon cape enables tanks that have sustain like crazy paired with heavy CC to do damage and go out of combat taking low damage till they are ready again..

      Grail seeker on knight enables full lockup and kill if not cleric chowl and such.
      Yet it makes cleric chowl and Resi pot equipped mandatory for most engages.

      As i said, the mechanic of demon cape is ONE of the root causes of balance issues..

      And getting proper balance enforces a generic rework of demon cape..
    • It is the weakest cape from all that gives damage.
      Obviously this post is about CD. There are only two weapons that can benefit from demon cape: tombhammer and one hand dagger with stun helmet. This can be countered only by cleric cowl. But do you know that stun duration on tombhammer does not allow you to apply full damage from the cape? That using thetford cape you get the same damage as from demon cape in 1 minute on target in leather. All this shit comes from ppl using 8.3 setups against noobs with 1300 ip. With equal IP tombhammer is extremely weak against opponents in even leather, we would not speak about plate. It becomes equal only on high IP (1500 and higher).
      Onesot dagger is another story. It has so much damage and healing even without cape, that the last is an addition to main damage, not its source.
      Grailseeker and pike can be countered by by many ways: resist potions, cleric cowl, fire shield on armor, reflect. Wait! The pike can kill you even through resist pot or defensive ability? It is an issue with pike, not the cape, it should drop stacks after using E.

      Where did you see pikes and tombhammers in open world? There are claws and daggers, and claws can be countered literally by anything. So it is ok, use defensives and escapes, not pure dd builds in cloth.
      So the only one weapon and build that should be looked at is one hand dagger, but it is dagger itself not the cowl.

      Stop creating those idiotic threads about something to be OP without any clue how it works.
    • @Sethis

      So from your point of view it comes down to scaling? CC scaling with IP
      interesting

      i am with you on the point it being the weakest cape "damage" without the build to support it
      even then the amount of investment it takes to one shot something aka 0 defences on build if properly countered should spell hardship for the other player
      1 properly timed defence or a cleric cowl would invalidate most of their combo and opposing player should be out of juice to fight back

      may not make for the most "balance" of play styles but its one i would consider high risk high reward instead?


      1h dagger is another problem entirely
      it has the damage to one shot without demon cape
      i have seen people use bridgewatch cape as substitute

      tombhammer at the peak of its popularity was just toxic due in part to its highest stun duration, range and cooldown
      the reason being SBI buff the Hit Speed (time before spell lands) to be near instant making it near impossible to dodge and to top it off with damage from a 8.3 demon cape
      if the opposing player bring a weaker tombhammer aka T7/T8 builds with the same IP stand a chance due to the less CC duration and damage dealt

      i found using a leather and plate armor helps in surviving 1 shot builds
      my badon build found more success as i would heal to full after surviving the 1 shot due to leather armor base stats

      people might say that merc jacket is OP here but if we close 1 eye to the fact that its 1 min cooldown is by pass by spectre hood
      we get a long cooldown trade for a 1 shot combo that has a cooldown of 30 seconds

      same case with cleric cowl as it provides a get out of jail card for a 1 minute cooldown
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    • Didn't you know that defence progression is linear and damage and cc progression is exponential?
      Everything comes to the same scaling when the same skill does 100 damage on 1000IP and 1200 damage on 1500IP.
      Thats why stupid frost build with cleric cowl, resist pot and mage armour is working when you have 1500 IP (and 40 ping) and does not work when you have 1300 IP.
      It is the same reason why oneshot dagger build does not work in T6 corrupteds.

      And yes I think that merc coat is OP because it can be used only by certain builds with certain weapons. If you add some piece of gear that makes a weapon competitive in some sort of pvp it should get lower damage or sustain without this gear. In case of course staff and badon it is not true and It should not be like this. Every weapon tree should have a particular weapon for 1v1, zvz, small scale. But then we comes to builds with low damage, high sustain and mobility. All last year stupid noobs cry about that and eventually we get bats it CD. Are you happy now? No?