buff one handed spear

    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      pinto wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      Bro, If I had to compare it with multitarget weapon, would be the WORST MELEE WEAPON.

      I rather compare non artifact one handed melee weapon.
      why don't u make comparisons of 1h spear with dual sword, carving sword & bloodletter? (don't forget to consider the auto-attack dmg in the calculation aswell :D)does comparing 1h spear E with 1h dagger E makes any sense to u?
      LMAO.dual sword 3 stack AOE 888 DMG 15 secs cd
      blodletter 1234 DMG when 40%life every 30 sec
      carving 639 DMG (no stack) 73 res red (3 stack) 20 sec (damage scales after res red so damage applied is way more)
      all these apply more damage than 1HS
      the sense is way more loose if compared to GREATAXE 1550 dmg 25 sec . Overlaying mixed weapons between 1 handed, 2 handed is way more biased so I dont take them on point ( compare glaive E dmg vs broadsword E dmg... LMAO)
      now make the comparison between these weapons auto-attack DPS.
    • pinto wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      pinto wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      Bro, If I had to compare it with multitarget weapon, would be the WORST MELEE WEAPON.

      I rather compare non artifact one handed melee weapon.
      why don't u make comparisons of 1h spear with dual sword, carving sword & bloodletter? (don't forget to consider the auto-attack dmg in the calculation aswell :D)does comparing 1h spear E with 1h dagger E makes any sense to u?
      LMAO.dual sword 3 stack AOE 888 DMG 15 secs cdblodletter 1234 DMG when 40%life every 30 sec
      carving 639 DMG (no stack) 73 res red (3 stack) 20 sec (damage scales after res red so damage applied is way more)
      all these apply more damage than 1HS
      the sense is way more loose if compared to GREATAXE 1550 dmg 25 sec . Overlaying mixed weapons between 1 handed, 2 handed is way more biased so I dont take them on point ( compare glaive E dmg vs broadsword E dmg... LMAO)
      now make the comparison between these weapons auto-attack DPS.
      BRO, YOU DUMB? Hasnt seen HATENHAIR POST?
      THE ROUT DAMAGE IS LOW COMPARED TO PIKE OR CLAYMORE:


      Hattenhair wrote:

      Hattenhair wrote:

      Some calculations from another thread regarding Spirit Spear damage bonus nerf from 40% down to 32%:

      Now if it were me I'd compare not AA or Q damage, but rather damage in the whole weapon toolkit. I'll do a basic comparison between 2 weapons I would assume are the closest in their respective roles, yet are in different trees: Pike and Claymore with an IP of 1103 and 1104 respectively.
      Since scaling with AA buffs is multiplicative (most complaints seem to go towards cloth spear users), I will take a 60% mag/atk bonus as a baseline (Full cleric gear with damage passives on).

      I will go for the W+E burst-routes and use AA and Q as the main source of sustain damage during cooldowns.

      Claymore (1104 IP) skill set (60% atk bonus included, passives excluded):
      • AA - 190 phys dmg, 1 AA/s, (1.12, 1.24 and 1.36 for each Q stack respectively).
      • Q1 - Heroic Strike - 453 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 12% MS/AA bonus, 6s duration.
      • W4 - Splitting Slash - 787 phys dmg, 15s CDR, 2.23s Root.
      • E - Charge - 1702 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 20s CDR, 0.8s Stun, 1s I-Frame.
      Claymore fastest burst DPS route from 0 stacks (~11-12s in execution time):
      Q (453, 0.35s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.89s per), 1 stack (190x3=570) --> Q (453, 0.35s) --> 3AA in 3s (0.8s per), 2 stacks (190x3=570) --> Q (453, 0.35s) --> 1AA (0.74s), 3 stacks (190) --> W (787, 0.3s; standtime cancel of 0.5s) --> E (1702, ~0.8s if casting point-blank).
      Total damage = 5178, before factoring armor.

      Claymore sustain DPS route after burst for next 20s, starting at 0 stacks (Swords favour skill damage over AA damage):
      Q (453, 0.35s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.89s per), 1 stack (190x3=570) --> Q (453, 0.35s) --> 3AA in 3s (0.8s per), 2 stacks (190x3=570) --> Q (453, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.74s per), 3 stacks (190x4=760) --> Repeat Q and 4AA 3 times ((453+760)x3).
      Total damage = 6898 damage, before armor.

      Pike (1103 IP) skill set (60% atk bonus included, passives excluded):
      • AA - 237 phys dmg (332, 426 and 521 for each Q stack respectively), 0.8AA/s.
      • Q1 - Lunging Strike - 454 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 40% AA bonus, 8s duration, 5.45s 10% slow.
      • W5 - Impaler - 902 phys dmg, 12s CDR, 5.45s 50% slow.
      • E - Rooting Smash - 1372 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 15s CDR, 5.07s Root.
      Pike burst route from 0 stacks (~8-9s in execution time):
      Q (454, ~0.35s, there seems to be a weird grace period afterwards where you can't AA for an additional ~0.9s) --> 2 AA in 3s (1.24s per), 1 stack (332x2=664) --> Q (454, ~0.35s+~0,9s grace) --> 2 AA in 3s (1.24s per), 2 stack (426x2=852) --> Q (454, ~0.35s+~0,9s) -> 1AA (1.24s), 3 stack (521) --> W (902, ~0.5s, this skill has no standtime?) --> E (1372, ~0.5s, 0 standtime aswell?).
      Total damage = 5673, before armor.

      Pike sustain route from 3 stacks (most spears dont drop stacks after E) for 20s (Spears favour AA over Q at 3 stacks):
      Q (454, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 5AA in 8s (1.24s per), 3 stacks (521x5=2605) --> Q (454, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 5AA in 8s (1.24s per), 3 stacks (521x5=2605) --> Q (454, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 3AA in 4s (1.24s per), 3 stacks (521x3=2084).
      Total damage = 8656, before armor.

      Post-nerf AA's will deal 237, 312, 389, 465 damage respectively.
      Burst post-nerf route will deal - 5491 damage.
      Sustain 20s route will deal - 7407 damage.

      In conclusion:
      Pike has more damage and burst opportunities, while having much less utility.

      The nerf seems pretty reasonable on paper since spears, if played correctly, may never drop their stacks. One of my concerns would be 1h spears which will loose a ton of pressuring damage as a result, especially the regular 1h spear since it's the only spear that drops stacks on E and might need a buff to put it in the line with other spears.
      Just make it not drop stacks after E, like all other spears, engraining it as a basic mechanic for the weapon tree.Considering the nerf theres little to no excuse to not do it.
      IF WE ADD SPEAR LACK INSTANT MOBILITY THERE IS NO POINT TO HAVE A WEAPON WITHOUT MOBILITY ROUTING LESS DAMAGE
    • Regular spear really fills too weak. But trinity is still a brain-dead space-clicker any monkey can use to annihilate everything. Another great update.

      1. 1h spear should have more DPS, agree. But not as it was before. Maybe an ultimate buff really can be a good solution. Experienced spear players should know better. It can also be a good approach to do something with broadswords monkeys.
      2. All the spears should consume stacks when using ultimates.
      3. Spear is a MELEE weapon. it should not have more attack range, than RDD.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Back.Off.Outlaw ().

    • Back.Off.Outlaw wrote:

      Good, that Trinity monkeys have)
      A short guide for those, who wanna start: SPACE IS HERE

      Trinity spear is a bugfix for those, who miskicked Q with crossbows a few months ago. Space is hard to misclick. Enjoy, girls)
      welcome to albion dumbest compensation:
      "Oh, spear OP AA at CD, lets nerf it. "
      But at same time:
      Open World content: No one uses spear as melee dps, furthermore no one uses Q2 at Open World content.

      Result, Your tree weapon is affected cause no one think a Smart solution: add damn resistence debuff per auto Q2.

      Conclusion: monkey gameplay still work, and content for Open World is Even more screwed.
    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      BRO, YOU DUMB? Hasnt seen HATENHAIR POST?
      THE ROUT DAMAGE IS LOW COMPARED TO PIKE OR CLAYMORE:
      were we talking about pike/claymore compared to 1h spear or 1h spear compared to similar weapons(more focused on mobility on their E's) in other trees such as bloodletter and carving sword?
      u are the dumb one here :D
      spears are strong at every content, and it was also undisputable meta in HELLGATES and CRYSTAL LEAGUE.
    • pinto wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      BRO, YOU DUMB? Hasnt seen HATENHAIR POST?
      THE ROUT DAMAGE IS LOW COMPARED TO PIKE OR CLAYMORE:
      were we talking about pike/claymore compared to 1h spear or 1h spear compared to similar weapons(more focused on mobility on their E's) in other trees such as bloodletter and carving sword?u are the dumb one here :D
      spears are strong at every content, and it was also undisputable meta in HELLGATES and CRYSTAL LEAGUE.
      Spear WAS strong at every content. Its completely dead now. All the top players have switched to new weapons because the damage nerf was far too high.

      1H Spear is super dead
      2H spear is not in a great spot.
    • pinto wrote:

      were we talking about pike/claymore compared to 1h spear or 1h spear compared to similar weapons(more focused on mobility on their E's) in other trees such as bloodletter and carving sword?
      u are the dumb one here
      spears are strong at every content, and it was also undisputable meta in HELLGATES and CRYSTAL LEAGUE.
      Boo-hoo, how about you make your own data set to prove your point better? If something was meta before it still doesn't justify nerfing that exact weapon into an unusable state.

      Subject:
      Cleric Cowl (1196 IP, Agression), Cleric Robe (1196 IP, Agression), Cleric Sandals (1196 IP, Agression), Muisak (1206 IP, 9.6% mag/phys atk bonus, fuck you I'm not doing energy efficiency).
      60% Mag/Phys bonus without Muisak, 70% with (Rounded up).
      129 Armor (56% mitigation), 154 Mag res (61% mitigation);
      With 76 armor shred from Carving mitigation is as follows:
      53 Armor (34% mitigation), 78 Mag res (43% mitigation).

      Broadsword (1218 IP) skill set (70% atk bonus included, weapon passive excluded):
      • AA - 142 phys dmg, 1.4 AA/s, (1.56, 1.73 and 1.9 for each Q stack respectively).
      • Q1 - Heroic Strike - 479 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 12% MS/AS bonus, 6s duration.
      • W4 - Splitting Slash - 833 phys dmg, 15s CDR, 2.25s Root.
      • E - Mighty Blow - 1740 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 12s CDR, Interrupt, 10m Dash, 55 Res boost for 3s on arrival.
      Broadsword fastest burst DPS route from 0 stacks (~11s in execution time):
      Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4 AA in 3s (0.65s per), 1 stack (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.58s per), 2 stacks (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 1AA (0.53s), 3 stacks (142) --> W (833, 0.3s; standtime cancel of 0.5s) --> E (1740, 0.3s, 0.3s standtime).
      Total damage = 5342 before armor, 2350 after armor.

      Broadsword sustain DPS route after burst for next 20s, starting at 0 stacks (Swords favour skill damage over AA damage):
      Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4 AA in 3s (0.65s per), 1 stack (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.58s per), 2 stacks (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 5AA in 3s (0.53s per), 3 stacks (142x5=710) --> Repeat Q and 5AA 3 times ((479+710)x3).
      Total damage = 6850 before armor, 3014 after armor.

      Carving (1220 IP) skill set (60% atk bonus included, weapon passive excluded):
      • AA - 210 phys dmg, 1 AA/s, (1.12, 1.24 and 1.36 for each Q stack respectively).
      • Q1 - Heroic Strike - 502 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 12% MS/AS bonus, 6s duration.
      • W4 - Splitting Slash - 872 phys dmg, 15s CDR, 2.5s Root.
      • E - Fearless Strike - 968 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 25s CDR, 9m Dash, 76 Res shred at 3 stacks for 8s.
      Carving fastest burst DPS route from 0 stacks (~10s in execution time):
      Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.89s per), 1 stack (210x3=630) --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3AA in 3s (0.8s per), 2 stacks (210x3=630) --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 1AA (0.74s), 3 stacks (210) --> Armor shred starts here --> E (968, ~0.3s) --> W (872, 0.3s; standtime 0.5s)
      Total damage = 2976 * 0.44 + 1840 * 0.66 = 2523.

      Carving sustain DPS route after burst for next 20s, starting at 0 stacks (Swords favour skill damage over AA damage):
      Leftover ~6s of Armor shred after burst --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.89s per), 1 stack (210x3=630) --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3AA in 3s (0.8s per), 2 stacks (210x3=630) --> Armor shred ends ~here --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.74s per), 3 stacks (210x4=840) --> Repeat Q and 4AA 3 times ((502+840)x3).
      Total damage = 1994 * 0.66 + 5368 * 0.44 = 4357.

      1H Spear (1215 IP) skill set (60% atk bonus included, passives excluded):
      • AA - 182 phys dmg (255, 328 and 400 for each Q stack respectively, PRE-NERF), 1.1AA/s.
      • Q1 - Lunging Strike - 479 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 40% AA bonus, 8s duration, 5.42s 10% slow.
      • W5 - Impaler - 953 phys dmg, 12s CDR, 5.42s 50% slow.
      • E - Reckless charge - 1278 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 20s CDR, 0.6s Knockup, 13m Dash.
      ***SIDENOTE ABOUT SPEAR AA***: 1H spear has an attack delay of 28 frames on a 30f recording (~0.91s), 12f of which belong to "swingback" animation and 16f to recovery, AA hits target on frame 16 after a 4f hitdelay; after 12f of "swingback" you can cancel the recovery for your AA with movement or by casting any spell; "Grace period" after casting LS has a duration of 27 frames (0.9s), 12 of which belong to "swingback" animation.
      So the reason why we can make 3 AA's in 3s is exactly because of AA recovery cancelling with a skill.
      Sequence goes something like this: 11f LS -> 11f Grace -> 12f Swingback, 4f Hitdelay -> 16f Recovery -> 28f for next AA -> 12f Swingback -> 90 frames passed (3s, exact cooldown of LS) -> LS cancel, which comes out on frame 101.

      1H Spear burst route from 0 stacks (~10s in execution time):
      Q (479, ~0.35s+~0.9s grace) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.91s per), 1 stack (255x3=765) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 2 AA in 3s (1.24s per), 2 stack (328x3=984) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 1AA (1.24s), 3 stack (400) --> W (953, ~0.5s) --> E (1278, ~0.3s).
      Total damage = 5817 before armor, 2559 after armor.

      1H Spear sustain route from 0 stacks for 20s (1H spears favour Q over AA):
      Q (479, ~0.35s+~0.9s grace) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.91s per), 1 stack (255x3=765) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.91s per), 2 stack (328x3=984) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 3AA (0.91s), 3 stack (400x3=1200) --> Repeat Q and 3AA 3 times ((479+1200)x3).
      Total damage = 9423 before armor, 4146 after armor.

      Post-nerf AA's (32%) deal 182, 240, 298, 357 damage respectively. 720 894 1071
      Burst post-nerf route will deal - 5639 damage before armor, 2481 after armor.
      Sustain 20s route will deal - 8772 damage before armor, 3859 after armor.

      In conclusion:
      Go fuck yourself, I am tired.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      pinto wrote:

      were we talking about pike/claymore compared to 1h spear or 1h spear compared to similar weapons(more focused on mobility on their E's) in other trees such as bloodletter and carving sword?
      u are the dumb one here
      spears are strong at every content, and it was also undisputable meta in HELLGATES and CRYSTAL LEAGUE.
      Boo-hoo, how about you make your own data set to prove your point better? If something was meta before it still doesn't justify nerfing that exact weapon into an unusable state.
      Subject:
      Cleric Cowl (1196 IP, Agression), Cleric Robe (1196 IP, Agression), Cleric Sandals (1196 IP, Agression), Muisak (1206 IP, 9.6% mag/phys atk bonus, fuck you I'm not doing energy efficiency).
      60% Mag/Phys bonus without Muisak, 70% with (Rounded up).
      129 Armor (56% mitigation), 154 Mag res (61% mitigation);
      With 76 armor shred from Carving mitigation is as follows:
      53 Armor (34% mitigation), 78 Mag res (43% mitigation).

      Broadsword (1218 IP) skill set (70% atk bonus included, weapon passive excluded):
      • AA - 142 phys dmg, 1.4 AA/s, (1.56, 1.73 and 1.9 for each Q stack respectively).
      • Q1 - Heroic Strike - 479 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 12% MS/AS bonus, 6s duration.
      • W4 - Splitting Slash - 833 phys dmg, 15s CDR, 2.25s Root.
      • E - Mighty Blow - 1740 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 12s CDR, Interrupt, 10m Dash, 55 Res boost for 3s on arrival.
      Broadsword fastest burst DPS route from 0 stacks (~11s in execution time):
      Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4 AA in 3s (0.65s per), 1 stack (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.58s per), 2 stacks (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 1AA (0.53s), 3 stacks (142) --> W (833, 0.3s; standtime cancel of 0.5s) --> E (1740, 0.3s, 0.3s standtime).
      Total damage = 5342 before armor, 2350 after armor.

      Broadsword sustain DPS route after burst for next 20s, starting at 0 stacks (Swords favour skill damage over AA damage):
      Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4 AA in 3s (0.65s per), 1 stack (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.58s per), 2 stacks (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 5AA in 3s (0.53s per), 3 stacks (142x5=710) --> Repeat Q and 5AA 3 times ((479+710)x3).
      Total damage = 6850 before armor, 3014 after armor.

      Carving (1220 IP) skill set (60% atk bonus included, weapon passive excluded):
      • AA - 210 phys dmg, 1 AA/s, (1.12, 1.24 and 1.36 for each Q stack respectively).
      • Q1 - Heroic Strike - 502 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 12% MS/AS bonus, 6s duration.
      • W4 - Splitting Slash - 872 phys dmg, 15s CDR, 2.5s Root.
      • E - Fearless Strike - 968 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 25s CDR, 9m Dash, 76 Res shred at 3 stacks for 8s.
      Carving fastest burst DPS route from 0 stacks (~10s in execution time):
      Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.89s per), 1 stack (210x3=630) --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3AA in 3s (0.8s per), 2 stacks (210x3=630) --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 1AA (0.74s), 3 stacks (210) --> Armor shred starts here --> E (968, ~0.3s) --> W (872, 0.3s; standtime 0.5s)
      Total damage = 2976 * 0.44 + 1840 * 0.66 = 2523.

      Carving sustain DPS route after burst for next 20s, starting at 0 stacks (Swords favour skill damage over AA damage):
      Leftover ~6s of Armor shred after burst --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.89s per), 1 stack (210x3=630) --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3AA in 3s (0.8s per), 2 stacks (210x3=630) --> Armor shred ends ~here --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.74s per), 3 stacks (210x4=840) --> Repeat Q and 4AA 3 times ((502+840)x3).
      Total damage = 1994 * 0.66 + 5368 * 0.44 = 4357.

      1H Spear (1215 IP) skill set (60% atk bonus included, passives excluded):
      • AA - 182 phys dmg (255, 328 and 400 for each Q stack respectively, PRE-NERF), 1.1AA/s.
      • Q1 - Lunging Strike - 479 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 40% AA bonus, 8s duration, 5.42s 10% slow.
      • W5 - Impaler - 953 phys dmg, 12s CDR, 5.42s 50% slow.
      • E - Reckless charge - 1278 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 20s CDR, 0.6s Knockup, 13m Dash.
      ***SIDENOTE ABOUT SPEAR AA***: 1H spear has an attack delay of 28 frames on a 30f recording (~0.91s), 12f of which belong to "swingback" animation and 16f to recovery, AA hits target on frame 16 after a 4f hitdelay; after 12f of "swingback" you can cancel the recovery for your AA with movement or by casting any spell; "Grace period" after casting LS has a duration of 27 frames (0.9s), 12 of which belong to "swingback" animation.
      So the reason why we can make 3 AA's in 3s is exactly because of AA recovery cancelling with a skill.
      Sequence goes something like this: 11f LS -> 11f Grace -> 12f Swingback, 4f Hitdelay -> 16f Recovery -> 28f for next AA -> 12f Swingback -> 90 frames passed (3s, exact cooldown of LS) -> LS cancel, which comes out on frame 101.

      1H Spear burst route from 0 stacks (~10s in execution time):
      Q (479, ~0.35s+~0.9s grace) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.91s per), 1 stack (255x3=765) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 2 AA in 3s (1.24s per), 2 stack (328x3=984) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 1AA (1.24s), 3 stack (400) --> W (953, ~0.5s) --> E (1278, ~0.3s).
      Total damage = 5817 before armor, 2559 after armor.

      1H Spear sustain route from 0 stacks for 20s (1H spears favour Q over AA):
      Q (479, ~0.35s+~0.9s grace) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.91s per), 1 stack (255x3=765) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.91s per), 2 stack (328x3=984) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 3AA (0.91s), 3 stack (400x3=1200) --> Repeat Q and 3AA 3 times ((479+1200)x3).
      Total damage = 9423 before armor, 4146 after armor.

      Post-nerf AA's (32%) deal 182, 240, 298, 357 damage respectively. 720 894 1071
      Burst post-nerf route will deal - 5639 damage before armor, 2481 after armor.
      Sustain 20s route will deal - 8772 damage before armor, 3859 after armor.

      In conclusion:
      Go fuck yourself, I am tired.
      yes, u must be right, idk why people don't ever use carving sword since it seems so broken by ur maths :P
      i mean, it has more damage than bloodletter and 1h spear, but why do people choose bloodletter and 1h spear over it? people must be dumb.
    • pinto wrote:

      yes, u must be right, idk why people don't ever use carving sword since it seems so broken by ur maths
      i mean, it has more damage than bloodletter and 1h spear, but why do people choose bloodletter and 1h spear over it? people must be dumb.
      I often see it in 5v5 HG's in melee dive comps. At 1200 IP 76 shred hits the 60% shred limit for same-IP cloth armours, which also lasts 8s.
      Downside of carving is that it can be cleansed, while not really having that great of solo target presence. You also drop stacks after E, meaning to utilise armor shred to its full extent you've got to have good coordination with teammates.
      Bloodletter has better alpha damage that can execute without relying on teammates to fill in the gap, mobility unreliant on stacks and good burst which has a low cooldown of 15s (Chain slash). Overall BL is more selfish and easier to play, while filling a similar role to carving.
      1H spear sucks overall because of the 0.6s knockup. Knockup CC is uncleanseable (you also cant press cleric cowl in it) and not affected by CC resistances, which is the sole reason why it's a good type of anti-zerg CC, who tend to have good resistances from buffs and a bunch of cleanses. Yet, have you seen anyone use 1H spear in ZvZ? Me neither.

      Unlike with the 8s shred which gives your team plenty of time to play off of it, 0.6s of CC is very hard to make use of in CC-chaining even with good coordination, on it's own the 0.6s of knockup does the job not much better than a regular spell interrupt.
      Daybreaker is simply a much better choice for brawling in both ZvZ and Small Scale compared to 1H spear. Even considering the 0.5s cast time, the fact that you don't drop stacks is massive, not even mentioning that a purge is much more valuable than a 0.6s knockup.

      Personally, I would let 1H keep stacks and increase the knockup to something more substantial like 0.8s or even 1s.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • pinto wrote:

      Hattenhair wrote:

      pinto wrote:

      were we talking about pike/claymore compared to 1h spear or 1h spear compared to similar weapons(more focused on mobility on their E's) in other trees such as bloodletter and carving sword?
      u are the dumb one here
      spears are strong at every content, and it was also undisputable meta in HELLGATES and CRYSTAL LEAGUE.
      Boo-hoo, how about you make your own data set to prove your point better? If something was meta before it still doesn't justify nerfing that exact weapon into an unusable state.Subject:
      Cleric Cowl (1196 IP, Agression), Cleric Robe (1196 IP, Agression), Cleric Sandals (1196 IP, Agression), Muisak (1206 IP, 9.6% mag/phys atk bonus, fuck you I'm not doing energy efficiency).
      60% Mag/Phys bonus without Muisak, 70% with (Rounded up).
      129 Armor (56% mitigation), 154 Mag res (61% mitigation);
      With 76 armor shred from Carving mitigation is as follows:
      53 Armor (34% mitigation), 78 Mag res (43% mitigation).

      Broadsword (1218 IP) skill set (70% atk bonus included, weapon passive excluded):
      • AA - 142 phys dmg, 1.4 AA/s, (1.56, 1.73 and 1.9 for each Q stack respectively).
      • Q1 - Heroic Strike - 479 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 12% MS/AS bonus, 6s duration.
      • W4 - Splitting Slash - 833 phys dmg, 15s CDR, 2.25s Root.
      • E - Mighty Blow - 1740 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 12s CDR, Interrupt, 10m Dash, 55 Res boost for 3s on arrival.
      Broadsword fastest burst DPS route from 0 stacks (~11s in execution time):
      Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4 AA in 3s (0.65s per), 1 stack (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.58s per), 2 stacks (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 1AA (0.53s), 3 stacks (142) --> W (833, 0.3s; standtime cancel of 0.5s) --> E (1740, 0.3s, 0.3s standtime).
      Total damage = 5342 before armor, 2350 after armor.

      Broadsword sustain DPS route after burst for next 20s, starting at 0 stacks (Swords favour skill damage over AA damage):
      Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4 AA in 3s (0.65s per), 1 stack (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.58s per), 2 stacks (142x4=568) --> Q (479, 0.35s) --> 5AA in 3s (0.53s per), 3 stacks (142x5=710) --> Repeat Q and 5AA 3 times ((479+710)x3).
      Total damage = 6850 before armor, 3014 after armor.

      Carving (1220 IP) skill set (60% atk bonus included, weapon passive excluded):
      • AA - 210 phys dmg, 1 AA/s, (1.12, 1.24 and 1.36 for each Q stack respectively).
      • Q1 - Heroic Strike - 502 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 12% MS/AS bonus, 6s duration.
      • W4 - Splitting Slash - 872 phys dmg, 15s CDR, 2.5s Root.
      • E - Fearless Strike - 968 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 25s CDR, 9m Dash, 76 Res shred at 3 stacks for 8s.
      Carving fastest burst DPS route from 0 stacks (~10s in execution time):
      Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.89s per), 1 stack (210x3=630) --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3AA in 3s (0.8s per), 2 stacks (210x3=630) --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 1AA (0.74s), 3 stacks (210) --> Armor shred starts here --> E (968, ~0.3s) --> W (872, 0.3s; standtime 0.5s)
      Total damage = 2976 * 0.44 + 1840 * 0.66 = 2523.

      Carving sustain DPS route after burst for next 20s, starting at 0 stacks (Swords favour skill damage over AA damage):
      Leftover ~6s of Armor shred after burst --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.89s per), 1 stack (210x3=630) --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 3AA in 3s (0.8s per), 2 stacks (210x3=630) --> Armor shred ends ~here --> Q (502, 0.35s) --> 4AA in 3s (0.74s per), 3 stacks (210x4=840) --> Repeat Q and 4AA 3 times ((502+840)x3).
      Total damage = 1994 * 0.66 + 5368 * 0.44 = 4357.

      1H Spear (1215 IP) skill set (60% atk bonus included, passives excluded):
      • AA - 182 phys dmg (255, 328 and 400 for each Q stack respectively, PRE-NERF), 1.1AA/s.
      • Q1 - Lunging Strike - 479 phys dmg, 3s CDR, 40% AA bonus, 8s duration, 5.42s 10% slow.
      • W5 - Impaler - 953 phys dmg, 12s CDR, 5.42s 50% slow.
      • E - Reckless charge - 1278 phys dmg at 3 stacks, 20s CDR, 0.6s Knockup, 13m Dash.
      ***SIDENOTE ABOUT SPEAR AA***: 1H spear has an attack delay of 28 frames on a 30f recording (~0.91s), 12f of which belong to "swingback" animation and 16f to recovery, AA hits target on frame 16 after a 4f hitdelay; after 12f of "swingback" you can cancel the recovery for your AA with movement or by casting any spell; "Grace period" after casting LS has a duration of 27 frames (0.9s), 12 of which belong to "swingback" animation.
      So the reason why we can make 3 AA's in 3s is exactly because of AA recovery cancelling with a skill.
      Sequence goes something like this: 11f LS -> 11f Grace -> 12f Swingback, 4f Hitdelay -> 16f Recovery -> 28f for next AA -> 12f Swingback -> 90 frames passed (3s, exact cooldown of LS) -> LS cancel, which comes out on frame 101.

      1H Spear burst route from 0 stacks (~10s in execution time):
      Q (479, ~0.35s+~0.9s grace) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.91s per), 1 stack (255x3=765) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 2 AA in 3s (1.24s per), 2 stack (328x3=984) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 1AA (1.24s), 3 stack (400) --> W (953, ~0.5s) --> E (1278, ~0.3s).
      Total damage = 5817 before armor, 2559 after armor.

      1H Spear sustain route from 0 stacks for 20s (1H spears favour Q over AA):
      Q (479, ~0.35s+~0.9s grace) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.91s per), 1 stack (255x3=765) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 3 AA in 3s (0.91s per), 2 stack (328x3=984) --> Q (479, ~0.35s+~0,9s) --> 3AA (0.91s), 3 stack (400x3=1200) --> Repeat Q and 3AA 3 times ((479+1200)x3).
      Total damage = 9423 before armor, 4146 after armor.

      Post-nerf AA's (32%) deal 182, 240, 298, 357 damage respectively. 720 894 1071
      Burst post-nerf route will deal - 5639 damage before armor, 2481 after armor.
      Sustain 20s route will deal - 8772 damage before armor, 3859 after armor.

      In conclusion:
      Go fuck yourself, I am tired.
      yes, u must be right, idk why people don't ever use carving sword since it seems so broken by ur maths :P i mean, it has more damage than bloodletter and 1h spear, but why do people choose bloodletter and 1h spear over it? people must be dumb.
      have You never played at avalonian roads or small scale? There's a combo carving E+ permafrost. WTH You talking about. 1H spear has nothing to offer at group fights.

      Carving used to be useful at ZvZ but latest buffs to RDPS makes it no more a choice yo take.
    • Daybreaker perhaps deserves another thread. Should be Shining at small scale but the concept of purging while an attack combo doesn't Match when You already have a CC chain avoiding defensives. So the weapon fails at concept and execution time cause there is no way to put your ass back at ZvZ seeing spear lack of mobility.
      If it could purge resist pots might have an spot but till then is a fail concept being an Avalonian weapon.

      SO what wey have filling these kind of miss concepts??? Tadaaaan... Hand of Khor.
      A non interruptible weapon , no stack, 1500 damage at flat t6 working as Best bruiser melee at Open World and lately ZvZ.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by PaladinJavier ().

    • Spear is dead and the nerf was the laziest way they could have done it... sweeping nerf across the tree regardless of how underused a weapon already was. If they want to keep the AA damage nerf then increase the damage the skill shots (impaler, harpoon, E's, etc.) do so that it is a rewarding weapon again.

      All the top 100 spear players have switched off the weapon so SBI effectively killed it.
    • spears stayed 1 year in the META and now that it's FINALLY balanced after a thousand treads of people ranting about it, there's a few people that want it to be META in every single content of the game, quite sad that they don't see how strong their weapon was, spears are just not as strong as it was before, but it's definitely not weak.
      glaive, for example, still one of the BEST options if not the best mDPS to play in 5v5s and Crystal League, 1h SPEAR still a great weapon to play as a mDPS in solo open-world and CDG(can be compared to bloodletter), pike still one of the best weapons for 2v2s and spirithunter also still really strong for group fights, so there's no need for a new buff in spears, let it aside for sometime.
    • pinto wrote:

      spears stayed 1 year in the META and now that it's FINALLY balanced after a thousand treads of people ranting about it, there's a few people that want it to be META in every single content of the game, quite sad that they don't see how strong their weapon was, spears are just not as strong as it was before, but it's definitely not weak.
      glaive, for example, still one of the BEST options if not the best mDPS to play in 5v5s and Crystal League, 1h SPEAR still a great weapon to play as a mDPS in solo open-world and CDG(can be compared to bloodletter), pike still one of the best weapons for 2v2s and spirithunter also still really strong for group fights, so there's no need for a new buff in spears, let it aside for sometime.
      The other weapons arent in the meta because they dont have the proper toolkits. Take Kingmaker for example; they keep trying to buff it but the reason noone plays it is because a Bow = AUTO LOSE. It has no ability to catch ANYTHING. Spear was the one weapon that required skill shots AND always had a chance to win every match.

      You clearly have a vendetta against the weapon but instead of being mad at spear you should talk to SBI about giving your weapon tree a chance to fight back against kiters.
    • pinto wrote:

      1h SPEAR still a great weapon to play
      I specifically picked muisak as an offhand for the comparison to compensate the lower base stats of 1h weapons, if I were to pick any other offhand other than the muisak or cryptcandle the damage numbers would be even worse.
      Considering how variable the spear toolkit on the W spell slots is it can be used to a passable extent in solo ava roads roaming, but compared to other weapons it has much less compatibility for team play, as there is simply nothing of value to offer.
      The spear nerf was rightfully deserved, but now that sustain damage is heavily reliant on keeping your stacks the 1H spear became too inferior to any of the alternatives in the tree due to the stack loss.

      Thats why I proposed 2 buffs: keep stacks after E (To help with sustain damage / standartise it as a basic mechanic across the spear line) and increase the knockup duration to 0.8s or 1s (To improve the value in teamfights).
      The only issue i can foresee so far is that Impaler will be a true combo with that CC duration, but you can always decrease the damage on the 1H E to compensate for that.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?