Suggestion: Adding Necromancy Without Lagging the Game

    • ZvZ
    • Suggestion: Adding Necromancy Without Lagging the Game

      So I'd _REALLY_ love to see necromancy in the game. I've been wanting it for a while. But the hurdle is that spawning mobs could be abused, in theory every player could summon at the same time and cause major lag. Therefore, my suggestions is to require death to take place before a minion can spawn. During ZvZ this would mean the amount of entities is effectively the same, with old players being forced to respawn and the minions would only last for a few moments. In my doodles, I (sleepily) explain how I would see it work in more detail.

      I feel my solution addresses the problem that could come with lag. The only pitfall for this weapon type is in yellow zone PvP, where minions wouldn't spawn because no death occurs. In knock down cases I'd like to suggest maybe a buff for allies, but I'm no game developer. These are just my thoughts.

    • The first described weapon looks more like a rework of curse staff to me, it would be nice if SBI took some inspiration because the concept looks pretty good.

      Generally I am not a fan of summons in combat lock games.
      I dread to think what exploits and game breaking mechanics will be created.
    • Mishirene wrote:

      Midgard wrote:

      Sorry, but that is just hideous to read. So I didn't.
      I appreciate the criticism! Could you tell me what exactly made it hideous?
      It is much better than my wall of text which i put in a Word FIle. when ever i present a new idea
      i like the color and personal touches it makes it eye catching and easier to read

      i think its hard to read because of the everything in one long page kind of thing
      i dont mind it but i think some people just cant handle it

      Also try to stay left Aligned and not center align
      https://forum.albiononline.com/index.php/Thread/155980-The-Forums-Could-Use-a-Night-Mode-Theme/

      Contribute to Night Mode with the link above

      FYI here is a picture me hugging Night Mode
    • Mishirene wrote:

      Midgard wrote:

      Sorry, but that is just hideous to read. So I didn't.
      I appreciate the criticism! Could you tell me what exactly made it hideous?
      Just to be clear, I wasnt being arsey ... it was just awful to read due to formatting and style basically. Multiple font sizes and styles, screenshots overlaid with what looked like homemade images, cartoony styled drawings like its being presented to 12 year olds, length of post. I know youre trying to sell an idea, and not a professional in that field but any marketing department would have torn that up and told you to start again. I got one scroll in and didnt want to read any more ..
      Midgard
      T8 Fibre, Ore, Hide, Wood & Stone Gatherer
      T8 Gathering Gear Crafter
      T8 Bags & Capes Crafter
    • Midgard wrote:

      Mishirene wrote:

      Midgard wrote:

      Sorry, but that is just hideous to read. So I didn't.
      I appreciate the criticism! Could you tell me what exactly made it hideous?
      Just to be clear, I wasnt being arsey ... it was just awful to read due to formatting and style basically. Multiple font sizes and styles, screenshots overlaid with what looked like homemade images, cartoony styled drawings like its being presented to 12 year olds, length of post. I know youre trying to sell an idea, and not a professional in that field but any marketing department would have torn that up and told you to start again. I got one scroll in and didnt want to read any more ..
      I didn't think you were being arsey. I appreciate what you said. It's good criticism.

      Thanks for letting me know why you disliked it!
    • Midgard wrote:

      Actually decided to put in the time and persevere with reading it and youve obviously put a lot of time and effort into the content. Interesting stuff ...
      (This is a copy paste from a document I made. Enjoy it in list form! Hopefully it comes across better this time.)

      Necromancy Skill Tree
      Fallen enemies become allies.





      Summary
      The necromancy skill tree focuses on resurrecting fallen enemies to fight for your side. It is a dps/support line that has a focus on npc minions, and skills to aid in the end goal of turning enemy players into undead.

      Description
      Summoning in Albion has previously been thought as an unachievable dream
      due to players theoretically being able to spam summons all at once which would cause massive lag. To combat this, I spoke with Mr. Henkys on Twitter and we came up with a possible solution. Instead of summoning creatures, or spawning them after a player dies (which could cause syncing issues) necromancy would be a STATUS EFFECT. Similar to how being knocked down by mobs in pve removes the ability for the player to interact with the game, necromancy would remove the affected player's ability to interact with the game directly. The way this works is while the player is alive, a spell would need to be cast on them which would place a status effect on the player. If the player/creature reaches 0 or 1 hp before the effect expires, they enter a state similar to being knocked down.

      When this happens, the character's model swaps (ideally, but texture could change also with some effects as well.) In addition, their characters will become controlled by AI. This way, players cannot lag the server by bloating zones with summoned creatures because every undead needs to be created through either a living player or creature first. And since it's the same entity, it wouldn't have syncing issues. (Note from the author: Robin mentioned to me on Twitter of syncing issues that could arise by simply spawning a zombie on top of a dead player, which is why my solution is to turn the player character's entity itself into the zombie.)

      Undead Behavior
      Undead will behave as follows. After arising, undead would receive a small defensive and speed buff. Undead will have an aggro range and attack the nearest player that falls in this range. Unlike other mobs however, they cannot be leashed naturally. They will continue to fight until their target dies, they themselves die, the necromancer commands them to attack a different target, or their timer expires.

      Undead would last for a short amount of time, which could scale with the necromancer's IP. After the timer runs out, the undead player falls to the ground and becomes lootable as normal. Players who are already undead are not subject to reanimation a second time.

      Minions can be controlled by the necromancer themselves as well. Assuming the spell that causes reanimation to be the "e" ability, the necromancer could recast their "e" ability as many times as they can while the undead are active. If cast in this manner, another cast for reanimation spells are not cast but instead the undead will move to the targeted location of the E. If the target is a specific player, all undead under that player's control will target that player.

      Decay and Viability in Small Scale Content
      To make necromancy viable not only in ZvZ, but also solo and small scale there could be a secondary status effect that is important to necromancy, which will be referenced as "decay" in this document.

      Decay is a debuff that has a high stack limit that also determines the strength of undead (more on that later). For this document 10 will be considered the maximum. Decay would cause the affected player to receive increased damage. One stack is barely a hindrance, while ten stacks are deadly. The reason for such a high stack count is that in solo and small-scale play you are likely to attack the same targets many times. This would make the necromancer skill tree viable for solo play because in a 1v1 scenario it doesn't matter if you have an undead or not once your target is dead. And this also helps in small scale since the players you attack tend to be the same. Whereas in ZvZ, you are unlikely to always land the same hits on the exact same enemies.

      Undead Strength and Control
      The second, and more important part of decay, is that undead will rise stronger depending on how many stacks of decay are on them. This helps keep the undead balanced. In small scale minions are stronger since they are likely to have more decay on them when initially spawned. In ZvZ, it is harder to get more stacks of decay on a single person due to the abundance of targets, space to retreat, and cleanses that frequent the battlefield.

      In addition, there are several ways to determine who gets to control the undead if multiple allies were to cast necromancy on the same enemy players. One method is that each necromancer would be able to have their own stacks of decay on the same player, and the necromancer with the most decay on the target, OR the player that reaches ten stacks first, takes control. With this method the target can have many stacks more than 10, but they can only be affected to the maximum of ten. (E.g. There are two necromancers attacking the same player. One has 9 stacks, the other has 4. Combined the player has 13 stacks but they will only take bonus damage of having ten stacks. When they die, the player who put ten stacks on the player claims them as their minion.)


      Abilities
      There are many different abilities that can be made with the necromancer staff. These suggestions are made with the idea of being able to fit a dps/support role, but by no means are the only ones the only abilities that could work with this class. The order of abilities will be Q spells, W spells, E spells, and passives. Stats such as cast speed, damage, or duration of effects will not be added here.


      Q Spells
      Q1: A spammable single target spell with medium range. Each hit of Q1 adds one stack of decay onto the target. Meant for solo and small scale play.

      Q2: A medium/long range AoE attack with a fairly short cooldown. Applies decay onto all enemies hit.

      W Spells
      W1: A ranged, single target spell that consumes all decay stacks on the enemy player (up to a maximum of ten), dealing damage proportional to the amount of stacks on the player. If the player does not survive the attack, decay stacks are not consumed and instead contribute to the undead's strength. Meant for solo and small scale play.

      W2: Ranged AoE attack that reduces affected enemy players' damage and/or healing output depending on how many decay stacks are on them. Useful for small scale and large scale zvz.

      W3: Ranged AoE attack that slows targets on it. It wouldn't be an instant cast to give players a chance to avoid it. The reason for this spell is to help minions reach targeted players. Useful for ganking and small scale.

      W4: A cleanse similar to motivating cleanse and cleanse heal. But instead of giving a speed buff or healing, it increases damage output for all allies hit by it.
      W5: AoE invisibility. The uniqueness about this invisibility spell is that it allows allies to attack while invisible (could be limited to just minions.) The reason for this suggested spell is that invisibility is referenced many times as "the realm of the dead" in other item descriptions. It felt fitting.

      W6: A reverse evensong to be cast on allies. Allies and minions hit will get a speed and damage buff depending on how many allies with the effect are inside the radius of one another.


      E Spells
      E1: An ability that transforms the user into a large undead creature that grants a new set of abilities depending on what body armor piece they are wearing. Cloth would turn the user into a ranged dps skeleton. Leather would turn the user into a mobility focused undead. Plate armor could turn the user into a tankier skeleton. Kills while this effect is active will turn enemy players into undead minions. This would be a non-artifact weapon with a focus in solo, 2v2, and small scale content.

      E2: A ranged AoE attack that adds two stacks of decay on enemies and damages them. Adds a status effect that causes fallen players to reanimate as melee zombies that chase down and attack enemy players. This would be a non-artifact weapon with a focus on small scale and large scale ZvZ.

      E3: A channeled ranged AoE ability that acts similar to the great cursed staff. Instead of applying curse stacks it applies decay stacks. In addition it also damages players inside of the AoE and slows them. Players who die while affected by this weapon will reanimate as ranged ghost mobs. This would be a non-artifact weapon with a focus on 5v5 and small scale content.

      E4: Could be either a single target execute or a massive damage AoE that adds one stack of decay. Enemies who die with this effect on them will reanimate as a melee zombie with a higher than normal base speed. These undead cannot be controlled by the necromancer, they will always attempt to attack the targets they are aggroed onto. What makes this class of undead unique is that with each attack they apply the same debuff onto enemies, with the exception that it cannot be purged, only waited out. Enemies who fall while this debuff is active rise as zombies themselves. Think of it as a "zombie apocalypse virus." This would be a demon/keeper artifact focused on large scale zvz.

      E5: Ranged, but slow, massive damage AoE attack that adds one stack of decay. But instead of producing one minion per death it instead creates a single large undead out of one unfortunate, randomly selected, player. The strength of this minion is dependent on how many were slain by the initial attack. Could act similar to E4 where further slain characters would add strength to this creature instead of creating more undead. This would be an Undead artifact focused on large scale ZvZ.

      E6: A quick, ranged AoE attack that does that adds one stack of decay. Enemy players affected by E6's debuff have their health hidden from their allied party, guild, and alliance members. The debuff lasts for 10-15 seconds. During this time, if a player dies with the status effect they don't die as they normally would and are still able to be healed. They would also remain in control of their characters. However, this does not save the enemy from death. Players who "died" with this effect on will have friendly fire enabled and be unable to heal their own allies. In addition, healers can heal the necromancer's allies. Once the effect expires, those that initially died with this status effect on will die as normal. Survivors of E6 will regain the ability to see their health points. This would be a Demon/Morgana artifact with a medium-scale/large-scale zvz focus.

      E7: An instant cast AoE meant to be cast on allies near death. The buff lasts for 3 seconds. If an ally dies within the three seconds they receive two buffs. The first is a cleanse, provides invulnerability, a speed boost, and a 10% heal of the player's health. This buff lasts for one second.

      The second part of E7 reduces the player's damage by 80%. The player has 5 seconds to be restored back to 80% HP or die. If killed again during this 5 second window, they stay dead. This ability cannot be chained with itself. This would be an Avalonian artifact focused on group fighting in general.


      Passives

      Passive 1: Every 4 auto attacks, apply one stack of decay.

      Passive 2: Restore energy every auto attack.

      Passive 3: Every auto attack will apply a status effect on the targeted entity that will raise them as an exploding undead. This effect can be overwritten by E abilities.

      Passive 4: Every 5 activated spells, damage is increased by 10%. Can also extend to minion damage output. (Basically furious caster.)


      Closing Notes
      I'm sure there are problems that this document doesn't cover. But I'm sure I could answer any question that arises. A bulk of questions that may arise might be answered in my Reddit posts about this topic.which can be found here, here, and my forum thread here. Of course there still may be more issues that are not covered, but I'd be more than happy to discuss them with whoever reads this document. Feel free to message me on Discord too! My tag is Celestine#6091. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Hopefully necromancy can become a reality in Albion some day.



      Written by Mishirene, that one fan that does stuff sometimes.
    • Can the undead person still see their screen? If so, can I kill someone as a Necromancer but keep them alive just to troll them a little longer before ultimately killing them for good? Or does it only work on party/guild members? I hope the former, because that sounds like a fun activity, right up there with fighting someone, getting them knocked out by mobs, and then removing all gear for a naked execution.
    • Haha, awesome work. This thread reads like an Oatmeal comic. This seems like something that *could* be done. Should it be done? I dunno, but it's neat.

      A couple thoughts:
      * Can the status effect be cleansed? How long does it last?

      * Why not make the strength of the undead summon an average of the casters IP and the targets IP?

      * Seems like a single summon type is preferred - probably something like a wisp with a ranged attack.

      * Could introduce a "counter" weapon type or ability to resurrect the zombies so the original player comes back to life?
    • Blenfjorn wrote:

      Can the undead person still see their screen? If so, can I kill someone as a Necromancer but keep them alive just to troll them a little longer before ultimately killing them for good? Or does it only work on party/guild members? I hope the former, because that sounds like a fun activity, right up there with fighting someone, getting them knocked out by mobs, and then removing all gear for a naked execution.
      As far as screen blacking out, I'd say it could go either way. Probably no, so that the player killed can witness the horror their corpse brings forth.

      As for necromancer trolling, that's the idea behind it! Kill an enemy, and they're forced to wait before they can finally die for good. It wouldn't work on party members since the point of it is to use your enemies against themselves, not to give your allies a bit more utility in their own death.



      paxprobellum wrote:

      Haha, awesome work. This thread reads like an Oatmeal comic. This seems like something that *could* be done. Should it be done? I dunno, but it's neat.

      A couple thoughts:
      * Can the status effect be cleansed? How long does it last?

      * Why not make the strength of the undead summon an average of the casters IP and the targets IP?

      * Seems like a single summon type is preferred - probably something like a wisp with a ranged attack.

      * Could introduce a "counter" weapon type or ability to resurrect the zombies so the original player comes back to life?
      I definitely think that it should be done!

      And now for your thoughts:
      1. The status effect could be cleansed, but you'd be unable to "purge" zombie status once you die from it.

      2. Because it would reduce the impact of the necromancer fame farming. I'd rather a necromancer feel rewarded for putting time in faming up their weapon, rather than hoping they manage to score a nice kill.

      3. Not too much to say to this one.

      4. The counter would be similar to what you said with purging. Locus those who have been hit with the status effect and if they die, they stay dead. Maybe reawaken could be a counter though similar to what @Fabrizziou suggested. But I wouldn't make it AoE
    • Mishirene wrote:

      The status effect could be cleansed, but you'd be unable to "purge" zombie status once you die from it.
      So in large scale fights locus will have even more job and still be a must have in the zerg

      Mishirene wrote:

      4. The counter would be similar to what you said with purging. Locus those who have been hit with the status effect and if they die, they stay dead. Maybe reawaken could be a counter though similar to what @Fabrizziou suggested. But I wouldn't make it AoE
      Hmmm now u say it yea, not aoe
      Reawaken itself could counter E1 and E5
      War Gloves supremacy

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Fabrizziou ().