Cleric cowl needs a lower cooldown

    • Cleric cowl needs a lower cooldown

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
    • Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      yeah let's lower the cooldown of what i nicknamed the noob cowl.
      why that nickname, well because you don't need any sort of skill to use it.
      you get silence, it saves you, you get stunt, it saves you, you get rooted, it saves you, you get put to sleep, it saves you.
      no other helm or counter in the whole game that lasts almost 10seconds can save you as much as the noob call even spells made to remove cc just cleanses once or doesn't provide 100% damage nullification while it occurs.

      That helm should be split into 3 different items with something like a 40-45 seconds cooldown (why 3 one for stunts, one for sleeps and one for silences).

      It is the strongest and easiest-to-use item to be a lifeline to lots of players due to how polyvalent and easy to use.
      heck you can even use it just to block big E damage of an attacker if they don't have cc too. it is a foolproof cc counter and damage mitigator.

      It literally does too much. last thing they need is lower the cooldown of that monster of an item.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      yeah let's lower the cooldown of what i nicknamed the noob cowl.why that nickname, well because you don't need any sort of skill to use it.
      you get silence, it saves you, you get stunt, it saves you, you get rooted, it saves you, you get put to sleep, it saves you.
      no other helm or counter in the whole game that lasts almost 10seconds can save you as much as the noob call even spells made to remove cc just cleanses once or doesn't provide 100% damage nullification while it occurs.

      That helm should be split into 3 different items with something like a 40-45 seconds cooldown (why 3 one for stunts, one for sleeps and one for silences).

      It is the strongest and easiest-to-use item to be a lifeline to lots of players due to how polyvalent and easy to use.
      heck you can even use it just to block big E damage of an attacker if they don't have cc too. it is a foolproof cc counter and damage mitigator.

      It literally does too much. last thing they need is lower the cooldown of that monster of an item.
      Cleric cape is the only viable counter to fight Stun + DPS and even then it's not keeping up because BrainDead builds have 15s cool and cleric cape has 60s, tombhammer builds have such a low cd that before you get out of the silence it will already have all the stun again, this in the 2v2 HG scenario, I don't agree that it should be buffed but I think the stun + dps builds should be nerfed even because even using the cape from cleric you still die to stun + dps no matter what you do, because tombhammer's stun is infinite, he can do 3 combos before you can get out of his stun.
    • LagartixaBombada wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      yeah let's lower the cooldown of what i nicknamed the noob cowl.why that nickname, well because you don't need any sort of skill to use it.you get silence, it saves you, you get stunt, it saves you, you get rooted, it saves you, you get put to sleep, it saves you.
      no other helm or counter in the whole game that lasts almost 10seconds can save you as much as the noob call even spells made to remove cc just cleanses once or doesn't provide 100% damage nullification while it occurs.

      That helm should be split into 3 different items with something like a 40-45 seconds cooldown (why 3 one for stunts, one for sleeps and one for silences).

      It is the strongest and easiest-to-use item to be a lifeline to lots of players due to how polyvalent and easy to use.
      heck you can even use it just to block big E damage of an attacker if they don't have cc too. it is a foolproof cc counter and damage mitigator.

      It literally does too much. last thing they need is lower the cooldown of that monster of an item.
      Cleric cape is the only viable counter to fight Stun + DPS and even then it's not keeping up because BrainDead builds have 15s cool and cleric cape has 60s, tombhammer builds have such a low cd that before you get out of the silence it will already have all the stun again, this in the 2v2 HG scenario, I don't agree that it should be buffed but I think the stun + dps builds should be nerfed even because even using the cape from cleric you still die to stun + dps no matter what you do, because tombhammer's stun is infinite, he can do 3 combos before you can get out of his stun.
      in duo's there's an item called merc hood that fully counters those dps/cc combos if you were not aware.
      that hood is on a 20sec cooldown and your healer should have a cleanse on their E (cause that is an option to counter it too) or to use 2 merc hoods so you can free your buddy if they are the one getting caught instead)

      and obviously, fort sterling cape can help too.

      point remains that cleric cowl is too versatile and too strong since it just counters all type of CC that exist on top of blocking all incoming damage..
      Soldier helm can block some cc while active and all damage but it can be interrupted so it as a counter, you can root or silence the person which will interrupt the cast.

      but again if you both go with merc hoods, y'all gonna complain you can't do much against another DPS+healer combo because they might not play with those so they'll have other utility instead. and we go round and round in circle because the meta of HG and corrupteds is rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper and paper beats rocks.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      yeah let's lower the cooldown of what i nicknamed the noob cowl.why that nickname, well because you don't need any sort of skill to use it.
      you get silence, it saves you, you get stunt, it saves you, you get rooted, it saves you, you get put to sleep, it saves you.
      no other helm or counter in the whole game that lasts almost 10seconds can save you as much as the noob call even spells made to remove cc just cleanses once or doesn't provide 100% damage nullification while it occurs.

      That helm should be split into 3 different items with something like a 40-45 seconds cooldown (why 3 one for stunts, one for sleeps and one for silences).

      It is the strongest and easiest-to-use item to be a lifeline to lots of players due to how polyvalent and easy to use.
      heck you can even use it just to block big E damage of an attacker if they don't have cc too. it is a foolproof cc counter and damage mitigator.

      It literally does too much. last thing they need is lower the cooldown of that monster of an item.
      I think it cant be used on sleeps, but im not sure about that

      Second, noob cowl? Bro its the only thing you can use against braindead builds like blackhands

      Even if its "noobcowl" braindead problems need braindead solutions /s

      But anyway you are exagerating a lot

      First, it doesnt even lasts 5 seconds
      Second, its a channel, you cant do anything else while using it
      Third, healing is halved, so using it to give time to get healed is unviable
      Fourth, you cant do anything during that time, meaning that the enemy has time to stack (if spear/dagger/sword/curse), cooldowns, and even channel assasin hood, so you negate the damage but the enemy is stacked and ready to black hands you while you could barely heal yourself
    • Mrpotato wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      yeah let's lower the cooldown of what i nicknamed the noob cowl.why that nickname, well because you don't need any sort of skill to use it.you get silence, it saves you, you get stunt, it saves you, you get rooted, it saves you, you get put to sleep, it saves you.
      no other helm or counter in the whole game that lasts almost 10seconds can save you as much as the noob call even spells made to remove cc just cleanses once or doesn't provide 100% damage nullification while it occurs.

      That helm should be split into 3 different items with something like a 40-45 seconds cooldown (why 3 one for stunts, one for sleeps and one for silences).

      It is the strongest and easiest-to-use item to be a lifeline to lots of players due to how polyvalent and easy to use.
      heck you can even use it just to block big E damage of an attacker if they don't have cc too. it is a foolproof cc counter and damage mitigator.

      It literally does too much. last thing they need is lower the cooldown of that monster of an item.
      I think it cant be used on sleeps, but im not sure about that
      Second, noob cowl? Bro its the only thing you can use against braindead builds like blackhands

      Even if its "noobcowl" braindead problems need braindead solutions /s

      But anyway you are exagerating a lot

      First, it doesnt even lasts 5 seconds
      Second, its a channel, you cant do anything else while using it
      Third, healing is halved, so using it to give time to get healed is unviable
      Fourth, you cant do anything during that time, meaning that the enemy has time to stack (if spear/dagger/sword/curse), cooldowns, and even channel assasin hood, so you negate the damage but the enemy is stacked and ready to black hands you while you could barely heal yourself
      Sorry i did a mistake, it last 4.75 seconds. (so pretty much 5 seconds which in a fight is a really long ass time.) I did say higher because that's 100% how it feels playing against someone who uses it, seems like it last freaking forever too.

      all builds you just named are not major issues if you have any other hood on...
      i might be exaggerating but how many other items gives you full damage protection for 5seconds? oh right none.
      how many other items can be used to protect from all cc's with damage protection, right none.

      so yeah it does too much.

      and to deal with Black hands, it's called assassin/royal shoes. it's an i-frame, frost has one, maces have one and i bet other items have one too (can't think out of my head right now but again, there is a ton of items).

      Black hands were too easy to use for the rewards, which i do agree but not as broken as the cleric cowl since there is still a "combo" to be done. just making the BH 2times E press (like ava bow and most of the new gauntlets weapons) would help mitigate how strong it is since it will require more effort/skill from the user.

      Curse has other issues but the cowl itself negates any CC build too hard and requires no skills at all to use nor can it be purged. it literally does too much and has no counters once it's used. (yeah you can bait it but still, even on 1 minute cd it still is really strong due to how versatile it is). Usually, i mostly bad players with that cowl because they don't know how to use the rest of their builds properly yet so they rely on that to just get a free pass on making a huge mistake that should cause them to lose a fight.

      and again you say blackhands are braindead but i disagree since you can actually outplay them to a degree (hence why it ain't number 1 as the best slayer corrupted build ain't it). and i bet that most of those top builds don't use cleric cowl weirdly enough.

      so to recap, blocks every cc, immune to damage, can still receive 50% heals and can't be purged/interrupted, and lasts for 4.75 seconds.
      so actual cooldown after usage isn't 60 seconds but 55.25 before food. (so that means it probably is easily possible to reach 46-47 second cooldown just with the right food). nah, would say it does too much and is on the low side cooldown-wise for how much it does.

      y'all so bad that instead of getting better you just want better broken items to help you win even tho it won't but that would make higher skill players meta hell because free advantage like that, if it has a lower cooldown, will start to be a problem. the biggest problem with that item is part of "baiting" (which requires skills) there is no counter to cleric cowl.
    • Haha you are correct "high infamy" players do not use cleric cowl because using cowl is for fighting. Any mis timing use of that helm and you die. High infamy players all use knock back to combine with the rest of their ridiculous safe running kit to only take guaranteed win fights. The rock/paper/scissors argument does not stand for these builds because all hard and soft counters simply cannot catch them. They get free passes to high infamy due to design.

      This goes back to the fighting in CDs needs to be confined in some capacity. You can make it even for all types by creating a big enough fight circle or smaller circle with dead end corridors from all 4 sides. This allows room for movement/kiting but not full blown disengaging. However the overhaul of CD design does not seem like an option to Devs so we get these occasional balance patch attempts. After each the next new flavor of disengage build arises.
    • @Deathskills, FYI:
      You can't press Cleric Cowl in Knockup / Knockback states, since those are considered as Displacement CC, and the cowl can only be pressed while stunned or silenced. The staves tree is a natural counter to it.
      Also, Soldier Helmet is technically not interruptible, since interrupts only work if the target receives damage, yet unlike the cowl you actually have to time it.

      And regarding the anticipatory I-Frames being a counter to BH, I'll just give you an excerpt from my thread:

      Hattenhair wrote:


      • Devastating strike (Black Hands):
        • A point about BH making life hard for melee's and overall classes which rely on buffs:
          The frequent small jumps provided by both Deadly swipe and Shadow edge/Chain slash make micro-spacing and the already small selection of defensives against a BH haymaker even less viable, specifically I want to point out short duration I-Frames with movement capabilities such as Soldier helmet, Assassin shoes, and even some skills like the Trinity spear E.
          To continue: BH is an instant cast stunning haymaker, which makes defensives relying on timing a subject exclusively to anticipation, which in order can be used by a BH user for their own advantage in baiting and pressure. There is no issue in anticipation mechanics as most weaponry utilizing stacking mechanics is subject to it.
          Yet, Black Hands are an outlier requiring no stacks to function at full capacity, hence making the opponent rely on a strong gut feeling at best.
          If anticipation is out of the question, purgeable defensives are out of the question, and the very few I-frames that should do the job are easily baitable you are only left with unpurgeable resistance mechanisms (of which there are very few in the game) that do not lock you from casting spells such as Res and Giga pots, Giga boots and alike.

          The combination of traits such as pure damage, inability to anticipate and/or react propertly to, cancelling out via purge or baiting out most defensives, at the same time being unable to micro-space against due to constant dashes and gap closers leaves BH in a place I am not content with.
          • Proposed Solutions: There are 2 ways of dealing with the described in my opinion, mostly increasing the ways to counter BH's E apart from unpurgeable defensives:

            Variant 1: If to be viewed as an "Assassin" playstile weapon I would suggest limiting the on-hit E effects applied to target depending on the amount of Sunder/Assassin spirit stacks, without changing any damage numbers (i.e: 0 stacks applies nothing on the first hit + knockback on second, 1 stack applies a slow/root to the first hit, 2 stacks turn the first hit into a stun, 3 stacks make the first hit purging, etc.).
            This would increase counterplay by adding purge as a partial counter to BH, and in certain situations allowing unpurgeable defensives to be used effectively.

            Variant 2: If BH are to be viewed as a primarily bruiser-oriented weapon I would suggest adding an ~0.4s-0.6s interruptibble? cast time before continuing into the regular uninterruptibble channel, which would allow for active use of I-Frames as a non-anticipatory counter, optionally decreasing cooldown by couple of seconds to compensate for interrupts.


      Unless the BH user is equipped with hellion shoes, there is no indication when they are going to use their E, because it doesn't require any stacks to function at full capacity, unlike with other daggers in the tree.
      "Oh no, he has 3 stacks, I'm gonna be stabbed soon, better prepare for it" - does not apply to BH.

      The only actual counters to BH is Cleric Cowl, Cleanse + I-Frame combo (2 buttons just to counter one, which is ridiculous), unpurgeable resistances from Giga pot/boots, Res pot, Forgehammers, or in general keeping away from it with hard zoning/kiting tools like Fire Wall and alternatives. Not to mention that in the first 3 cases you still take pure damage from the first hit.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Hattenhair ().

    • Deathskills wrote:

      LagartixaBombada wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      yeah let's lower the cooldown of what i nicknamed the noob cowl.why that nickname, well because you don't need any sort of skill to use it.you get silence, it saves you, you get stunt, it saves you, you get rooted, it saves you, you get put to sleep, it saves you.no other helm or counter in the whole game that lasts almost 10seconds can save you as much as the noob call even spells made to remove cc just cleanses once or doesn't provide 100% damage nullification while it occurs.

      That helm should be split into 3 different items with something like a 40-45 seconds cooldown (why 3 one for stunts, one for sleeps and one for silences).

      It is the strongest and easiest-to-use item to be a lifeline to lots of players due to how polyvalent and easy to use.
      heck you can even use it just to block big E damage of an attacker if they don't have cc too. it is a foolproof cc counter and damage mitigator.

      It literally does too much. last thing they need is lower the cooldown of that monster of an item.
      Cleric cape is the only viable counter to fight Stun + DPS and even then it's not keeping up because BrainDead builds have 15s cool and cleric cape has 60s, tombhammer builds have such a low cd that before you get out of the silence it will already have all the stun again, this in the 2v2 HG scenario, I don't agree that it should be buffed but I think the stun + dps builds should be nerfed even because even using the cape from cleric you still die to stun + dps no matter what you do, because tombhammer's stun is infinite, he can do 3 combos before you can get out of his stun.
      in duo's there's an item called merc hood that fully counters those dps/cc combos if you were not aware.that hood is on a 20sec cooldown and your healer should have a cleanse on their E (cause that is an option to counter it too) or to use 2 merc hoods so you can free your buddy if they are the one getting caught instead)

      and obviously, fort sterling cape can help too.

      point remains that cleric cowl is too versatile and too strong since it just counters all type of CC that exist on top of blocking all incoming damage..
      Soldier helm can block some cc while active and all damage but it can be interrupted so it as a counter, you can root or silence the person which will interrupt the cast.

      but again if you both go with merc hoods, y'all gonna complain you can't do much against another DPS+healer combo because they might not play with those so they'll have other utility instead. and we go round and round in circle because the meta of HG and corrupteds is rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper and paper beats rocks.
      Mercenary hood? lol, are you serious? it's just horrible against both Stun + DPS and Healer + DPS, the cleric hood we can bump and the cleric against stun and other one shoot builds, now the mercenary hood can't be used against anything it wouldn't be good neither against stun nor against healer, it's obvious that you don't know what you're talking about.
    • LagartixaBombada wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      LagartixaBombada wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      yeah let's lower the cooldown of what i nicknamed the noob cowl.why that nickname, well because you don't need any sort of skill to use it.you get silence, it saves you, you get stunt, it saves you, you get rooted, it saves you, you get put to sleep, it saves you.no other helm or counter in the whole game that lasts almost 10seconds can save you as much as the noob call even spells made to remove cc just cleanses once or doesn't provide 100% damage nullification while it occurs.
      That helm should be split into 3 different items with something like a 40-45 seconds cooldown (why 3 one for stunts, one for sleeps and one for silences).

      It is the strongest and easiest-to-use item to be a lifeline to lots of players due to how polyvalent and easy to use.
      heck you can even use it just to block big E damage of an attacker if they don't have cc too. it is a foolproof cc counter and damage mitigator.

      It literally does too much. last thing they need is lower the cooldown of that monster of an item.
      Cleric cape is the only viable counter to fight Stun + DPS and even then it's not keeping up because BrainDead builds have 15s cool and cleric cape has 60s, tombhammer builds have such a low cd that before you get out of the silence it will already have all the stun again, this in the 2v2 HG scenario, I don't agree that it should be buffed but I think the stun + dps builds should be nerfed even because even using the cape from cleric you still die to stun + dps no matter what you do, because tombhammer's stun is infinite, he can do 3 combos before you can get out of his stun.
      in duo's there's an item called merc hood that fully counters those dps/cc combos if you were not aware.that hood is on a 20sec cooldown and your healer should have a cleanse on their E (cause that is an option to counter it too) or to use 2 merc hoods so you can free your buddy if they are the one getting caught instead)
      and obviously, fort sterling cape can help too.

      point remains that cleric cowl is too versatile and too strong since it just counters all type of CC that exist on top of blocking all incoming damage..
      Soldier helm can block some cc while active and all damage but it can be interrupted so it as a counter, you can root or silence the person which will interrupt the cast.

      but again if you both go with merc hoods, y'all gonna complain you can't do much against another DPS+healer combo because they might not play with those so they'll have other utility instead. and we go round and round in circle because the meta of HG and corrupteds is rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper and paper beats rocks.
      Mercenary hood? lol, are you serious? it's just horrible against both Stun + DPS and Healer + DPS, the cleric hood we can bump and the cleric against stun and other one shoot builds, now the mercenary hood can't be used against anything it wouldn't be good neither against stun nor against healer, it's obvious that you don't know what you're talking about.
      merc hood removes stunts. you use after getting stunt making you harder to one shot after. so yes it works against CC/tank+ dps it works very well.
      sucks against healer+dps and dps+dps tho. that i agree.
    • Deathskills wrote:

      LagartixaBombada wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      LagartixaBombada wrote:

      Deathskills wrote:

      Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      yeah let's lower the cooldown of what i nicknamed the noob cowl.why that nickname, well because you don't need any sort of skill to use it.you get silence, it saves you, you get stunt, it saves you, you get rooted, it saves you, you get put to sleep, it saves you.no other helm or counter in the whole game that lasts almost 10seconds can save you as much as the noob call even spells made to remove cc just cleanses once or doesn't provide 100% damage nullification while it occurs.That helm should be split into 3 different items with something like a 40-45 seconds cooldown (why 3 one for stunts, one for sleeps and one for silences).

      It is the strongest and easiest-to-use item to be a lifeline to lots of players due to how polyvalent and easy to use.
      heck you can even use it just to block big E damage of an attacker if they don't have cc too. it is a foolproof cc counter and damage mitigator.

      It literally does too much. last thing they need is lower the cooldown of that monster of an item.
      Cleric cape is the only viable counter to fight Stun + DPS and even then it's not keeping up because BrainDead builds have 15s cool and cleric cape has 60s, tombhammer builds have such a low cd that before you get out of the silence it will already have all the stun again, this in the 2v2 HG scenario, I don't agree that it should be buffed but I think the stun + dps builds should be nerfed even because even using the cape from cleric you still die to stun + dps no matter what you do, because tombhammer's stun is infinite, he can do 3 combos before you can get out of his stun.
      in duo's there's an item called merc hood that fully counters those dps/cc combos if you were not aware.that hood is on a 20sec cooldown and your healer should have a cleanse on their E (cause that is an option to counter it too) or to use 2 merc hoods so you can free your buddy if they are the one getting caught instead)and obviously, fort sterling cape can help too.

      point remains that cleric cowl is too versatile and too strong since it just counters all type of CC that exist on top of blocking all incoming damage..
      Soldier helm can block some cc while active and all damage but it can be interrupted so it as a counter, you can root or silence the person which will interrupt the cast.

      but again if you both go with merc hoods, y'all gonna complain you can't do much against another DPS+healer combo because they might not play with those so they'll have other utility instead. and we go round and round in circle because the meta of HG and corrupteds is rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper and paper beats rocks.
      Mercenary hood? lol, are you serious? it's just horrible against both Stun + DPS and Healer + DPS, the cleric hood we can bump and the cleric against stun and other one shoot builds, now the mercenary hood can't be used against anything it wouldn't be good neither against stun nor against healer, it's obvious that you don't know what you're talking about.
      merc hood removes stunts. you use after getting stunt making you harder to one shot after. so yes it works against CC/tank+ dps it works very well.sucks against healer+dps and dps+dps tho. that i agree.
      do you realize you're basically destroying a build just to have a small chance of surviving against stun + dps? the Stuns are so fucked up that you have to do builds all focused on fighting a single weapon, and no mercenary hood is not good, clearly you've never fought a tombhammer, you're going to be put to sleep, you're going to wear the hood, it will silence you and that's it your DPS is dead, the cleric hood is the only hood that can be used against stun + dps and even with cleric hood you still die, the problem is not the hood's DC, you can fall even go back to the CD, the problem is that the stun builds are so strong these days that even with the cleric capo there will be fights where you won't be able to handle the combo, but you don't seem to play the game so you won't know what it's like to fight against a tombhamer with fire/spear that keeps doing damage even after the combo and the tombhammer has a very low CD so he can rotate CC and you just can't play, even with a cleric coat, you have to play perfectly without missing anything and you can still lose it's you It is simply absurd how broken the stun + dps builds are.
    • Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      nope
    • - Against tombhammer just anti-kite or go hallowfall and bye kek (idk if iron breaker nerf is going to affect it)
      - BH well you have i-frames but the timing have to be perfect, otherwise cleric cowl is a easier option to stop BH but still not enough (thanks God BH are gone soon)
      - 1shot pike just purge or reflect, it's pretty counterable in 1v1's and 2v2's
      War Gloves supremacy
    • I partially agree with the topic starter.
      1. 60 sec is too much and gives a window, enough to deal 3 or even more burst combo against some builds.
      2. Skill animations are too fast. If we are talking about tomb or broadsword for example - it looks like non-cast skills and hard to predict with 100+ ms ping.

      From the other side:
      1. Possibility to use it, ignoring silence, stun, sleep - is an insane fantasy, making cleric cowl absolutely braindead item.
      2. It's a light cowl. It's the only tree, which has 2 usable skills. Leather or heavy caps alternative skills are trash.

      In my opinion:
      Yes, it can be 50, or even 45 sec. But it should not ignore CC.

      LagartixaBombada wrote:

      I think the stun + dps builds should be nerfed
      SBI, please take this man instead of @Retroman
      Stun + DPS, Heal + DPS, Mobility + DPS should have less DPS, STUN, HEAL, MOBILITY, than specialized weapons. The issue, that some Tombhummer has good mobility, keeps you stunned for half of the fight, and take 1/4 of your's HP-bar with 1 combo(using plate build). If it is a huge CC weapon - why is it so mobile and has so much damage?
      Yesterday it was mace, frost was before it. The same issue while CD exists.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Back.Off.Outlaw ().

    • Back.Off.Outlaw wrote:

      I partially agree with the topic starter.
      1. 60 sec is too much and gives a window, enough to deal 3 or even more burst combo against some builds.
      2. Skill animations are too fast. If we are talking about tomb or broadsword for example - it looks like non-cast skills and hard to predict with 100+ ms ping.

      From the other side:
      1. Possibility to use it, ignoring silence, stun, sleep - is an insane fantasy, making cleric cowl absolutely braindead item.
      2. It's a light cowl. It's the only tree, which has 2 usable skills. Leather or heavy caps alternative skills are trash.

      In my opinion:
      Yes, it can be 50, or even 45 sec. But it should not ignore CC.

      LagartixaBombada wrote:

      I think the stun + dps builds should be nerfed
      SBI, please take this man instead of @RetromanStun + DPS, Heal + DPS, Mobility + DPS should have less DPS, STUN, HEAL, MOBILITY, than specialized weapons. The issue, that some Tombhummer has good mobility, keeps you stunned for half of the fight, and take 1/4 of your's HP-bar with 1 combo(using plate build). If it is a huge CC weapon - why is it so mobile and has so much damage?
      Yesterday it was mace, frost was before it. The same issue while CD exists.
      ez solution, make plate have a -50% or -75% damage. plate shouldn't be sued to deal damage. and if a guy in cloth kills you with a tank weapon then it is a different thing since they won't have the extra 300-500 hp from plate.
      I've always felt like cloth vs leather vs plate didn't have enough of a big difference in a lot of scenarios. Might be time to update this since they have updated it for healers.

      that would nerf the tombhammer without nerfing the weapon itself since the only place that weapon is so strong currently is in CD's. The amount of people able to use it in OW fights or in other content is really minimal and a non-issue imo. Feels dumb to nerf that weapon again just because the people playing it are all in plate armors.

      so imo the issue is the palte torso's in 1vs1 giving too much of an advantage since they don't reduce enough the damage output difference between cloth vs plate and leather vs plate.
    • @Deathskills @Back.Off.Outlaw
      Technically a difference in surviveability and damage is quite noticeable, and IMO should not be touched, at the very least for the time being.

      Although if I were to speak of direct/universal counters that are viable to counter mobility/CC builds for 1v1's, there are practically none which could be used without influencing your build in a detrimental way against builds that are not CC-oriented.
      Cleanse is the definitive universal counter to CC, even providing a 1s non-displacement immunity after a succesful trigger afterwards.
      Yet it is available on a very tight selection of skills, usually unfit for 1v1 environment as most of them have AoE presence instead of a good solo-target influence. Speaking of which, this is exactly why Cleric Cowl is used so much - it's the only selfish "Cleanse" available in the game.
      Now for the items themselves:
      • Mercenary hood (AoE) - Useful against different types of stat reductions and CC, VERY situational for 1v1.
      • Arcane cleanse (AoE) - Good skill, yet the weapon's tree kit is solely based on the support role, unfit for 1v1.
      • Druid cleanse (AoE) - Requires usage of a healing Q to be matched in effectiveness to other alternatives, unfit for 1v1.
      • Cleric cowl (Solo-target) - Pseudo-cleanse (ability to press while in CC), the only item viable for 1v1's with a use similar to that of regular cleanse in team fights. Unlike other alternatives has additional properties to fit multiple roles (Damage absorbtion), which makes it usable in a wide variety of match-ups.
      • Fallen staff E (AoE) - Team-based healing skill with an addition of cleanse, unfit for 1v1.
      • Lifetouch staff E (Solo-target) - The only actual solo-target cleanse in the game, with healing to boot. Despite it's usefullness on paper it's unfit for 1v1's due to interruptability, plus a very long channel time. And that's completely disregarding the abomination that is Smite with it's 1.5s cast time.
      Well, the conclusion is quite simple, no? Theres no viable alternatives to the helmet for 1v1-oriented combat.
      Why arent there any alternatives combining something like Resistances + Cleanse or Cleanse + Shield for a single target?

      The second universal counter to CC are I-frames, giving you the ability to dodge crowd control before it hits you.
      For succesful use of I-Frames you need 2 things: being able to react in time to the thing hitting you and the opponent's animation being clear enough to understand (Or as a handicapped option you can use warning circles).

      From my experience with moba-esque combat (Battlerite and Dota2), spanning over thousands of hours I have realised that the perfect sweet spot between anticipatory and reactionary combat systems regarding animation times is 0.4s to 0.45s.
      Most of animations and skill travel times, hitdelays and such in Albion were updated over the coming years to be around the mark of 0.3s - 0.35s, which is definetly in the anticipatory category, weakening the usage of I-Frames for skills that aren't heavily telegraphed as a result. Excluding one obvious outlier of Fiend Cowl, which has a hit-delay of 0.4s, and is actually being dodged by bow users in 5v5 crystal league on certain occasions!

      Animation clarity in albion is honestly... shite. Outside of obviously colourful skills, many of them usually consist of few body motions which are hard to discern from regular player movement and blurs in with the background very easily. Especially a big chunk of them have the "Hand pointing gesture", which is really hard to see from certain angles. Or as another example you can take Rooting Smash from the sword tree, which has a very short and jittery animation of lifting up the sword in the air and slamming it down.
      A good example of animation clarity would be the recent addition of the "Purple spark" on the Noise Eraser from the crossbows tree, which made the skill much more noticeable on the battlefield without specifically looking for the cast-bar below the opponent.

      So, overall, just as Backoff said: I-Frames are usually useless against skills without heavy telegraphing like long-cast times, colourful and easy to understand animations and anticipatory mechanics like Q stacks.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Hattenhair wrote:

      From my experience with moba-esque combat (Battlerite and Dota2), spanning over thousands of hours I have realised that the perfect sweet spot between anticipatory and reactionary combat systems regarding animation times is 0.4s to 0.45s.
      Agree. But don't forget about Albion ping. Most of the players play with 150+ ping. Some of them - with 200 and even 300+.
      But there are players, who can play with 30ms. It is a huge advantage in the case of 1v1 PVP and it should not be ignored.

      0.4-0.45 can be 0.5-0.6 sec in such conditions.
      I think if we are talking about 1v1 PVP in albion - a cast-time, as it is done for claymore can be a good option to make soldier helm, assasin\royal boots a good alternative to a cleric cowl.
      But again... players will continue to use it, because of:

      Hattenhair wrote:


      • Cleric cowl (Solo-target) - Pseudo-cleanse (ability to press while in CC), the only item viable for 1v1's with a use similar to that of regular cleanse in team fights. Unlike other alternatives has additional properties to fit multiple roles (Damage absorbtion), which makes it usable in a wide variety of match-ups.

      In the case of pure rock-paper-scissor balance, people look for the most universal item. Not for the most effective, or some synergy.
      For example, a soldier's helm can save you from some picked E even better, than cleric(if you have enough skill to use it in time), but will be useless against a double-merce skull. Cleric will be less effective in the first case, but useful in both. It is almost always useful. Maybe with less profit, but not useless.

      It is a classic example when trash architecture give no chance to fix an issue without a regression.
      To make it able to counter CC-based builds effectively, the cooldown should be buffed. But if it will be buffed, and an ability to use it ignoring CC will stay - everyone will use it.
      Disable that ability - cleric cowl will need some skill and will be ok. But nothing will stop broadsword monkeys or tombhummer abusers.

      The circle is closed. Сheckmate.
    • Mrpotato wrote:

      Cleric cowl is right now one of the only options to counter those shitty tombhammer/blackhands/pike one shot abilities

      The problem is that it has 1 MINUTE COOLDOWN, its super high, its more than double the cooldown of all those builds

      Imo the cooldown should be 40/45 seconds to at least give it some more utility
      Use soldier helm. Problem solved.

      Cleric cowl has longer duration and can be activated even trough cc. If cd is reduced to 40 seconds the duration should be reduced to 2-3 sec or the abillity to activate while cc should also be removed.