1533 Accounts banned for third-party currency transactions

    • Triforce wrote:

      Dimmizer wrote:

      If you ask me banning BA leadership isn't enough.

      If SBI REALLY is against the RMT then they need to revert season 13 and remove the rewards etc... MORE needs to be done especially if SBI KNEW that RMT was happening and didn't have plans to remove BA from season 13 and remove the rewards etc..

      BA literally BOUGHT their season rank.. how is this ok? there has to be more. It just doesn't sit right that SBI knew or was investigating this whole thing and in a sense allowed it to happen. If we wanna get all tin foil hat here why did SBI wait till AFTER Season 13 when BA was already and had announced they were quitting the game.. why wait? why the slacking? almost KINDA seems like SBI is just trying to protect their image/rep at this point and make it seem like they're taking a stance against RMT. Super coincidence that BA leadership gets banned 2 days after the season ends lol.

      SBI needs to show more otherwise this whole thing kinda feels like a cover-up and this whole thing is a "band-aid" for an even bigger problem. just my thoughts.
      At this point i'm wondering if you guys are not doing one of those "forum cta" to get BA cancelled by mass spamming everywhere about reverting the effort of the rest of the guild who are not related to that. SBI already answered on the topic and said after an EXTENSIVE discussion after the investigation, that there is no reason to revert the season and would be unfair to the poeple that worked for it.
      This is why name shaming as never been done in the past because it litterally shame a whole community for an isolated act produced by one person. Every known guild in this game had hidden RMTERS (it's not like someone who RMT's talk about it in members tchat publicly) within their ranks at some point and everytime those poeple were banned never the leaders of the guild were held responsible like this. This is a first and has been only applied to BA at the moment. So how is that a favor treatment from SBI to BA.

      There is no reason to revert anything only if you're following the reasonnable logic that SBI stated : The silver or items that were rmt'ed made the guild poorer and thus the other members not rmting poorer. This did not make the guild more powerfull as we're not talking about poeple being paid to give us castles or something else to win the season but items or silver traded for real life to benefit a small circle of poeple. The points that were acquired require poeple taking outposts, castles and gvgers winning their matches. Nothing from your narrative can change that, our gvgers were better, our castle flippers were better and more efficient, our shotcallers made us win fights and thats how you win a season.

      Finally you are saying we had SBI employees within our ranks, that is simply not true, Robinhoodrs has been out of the guild this season, shozen has not been in our guild for ages. But if i follow your logic, what are the chances the CM that made this post was part of a guild we fought and evicted some time ago?
      Man simping for a RMT guild, got art commissioned for them and they promised triforce with a crystal mount and never gave him one LMAO. The levels of simp are CRAZZZY!
    • Exeon wrote:

      Triforce wrote:

      Dimmizer wrote:

      If you ask me banning BA leadership isn't enough.

      If SBI REALLY is against the RMT then they need to revert season 13 and remove the rewards etc... MORE needs to be done especially if SBI KNEW that RMT was happening and didn't have plans to remove BA from season 13 and remove the rewards etc..

      BA literally BOUGHT their season rank.. how is this ok? there has to be more. It just doesn't sit right that SBI knew or was investigating this whole thing and in a sense allowed it to happen. If we wanna get all tin foil hat here why did SBI wait till AFTER Season 13 when BA was already and had announced they were quitting the game.. why wait? why the slacking? almost KINDA seems like SBI is just trying to protect their image/rep at this point and make it seem like they're taking a stance against RMT. Super coincidence that BA leadership gets banned 2 days after the season ends lol.

      SBI needs to show more otherwise this whole thing kinda feels like a cover-up and this whole thing is a "band-aid" for an even bigger problem. just my thoughts.
      At this point i'm wondering if you guys are not doing one of those "forum cta" to get BA cancelled by mass spamming everywhere about reverting the effort of the rest of the guild who are not related to that. SBI already answered on the topic and said after an EXTENSIVE discussion after the investigation, that there is no reason to revert the season and would be unfair to the poeple that worked for it.This is why name shaming as never been done in the past because it litterally shame a whole community for an isolated act produced by one person. Every known guild in this game had hidden RMTERS (it's not like someone who RMT's talk about it in members tchat publicly) within their ranks at some point and everytime those poeple were banned never the leaders of the guild were held responsible like this. This is a first and has been only applied to BA at the moment. So how is that a favor treatment from SBI to BA.

      There is no reason to revert anything only if you're following the reasonnable logic that SBI stated : The silver or items that were rmt'ed made the guild poorer and thus the other members not rmting poorer. This did not make the guild more powerfull as we're not talking about poeple being paid to give us castles or something else to win the season but items or silver traded for real life to benefit a small circle of poeple. The points that were acquired require poeple taking outposts, castles and gvgers winning their matches. Nothing from your narrative can change that, our gvgers were better, our castle flippers were better and more efficient, our shotcallers made us win fights and thats how you win a season.

      Finally you are saying we had SBI employees within our ranks, that is simply not true, Robinhoodrs has been out of the guild this season, shozen has not been in our guild for ages. But if i follow your logic, what are the chances the CM that made this post was part of a guild we fought and evicted some time ago?
      Man simping for a RMT guild, got art commissioned for them and they promised triforce with a crystal mount and never gave him one LMAO. The levels of simp are CRAZZY
      I was gonna respond to his post earlier this morning. I had a huge post written up and then just deleted it because it doesn't matter what I say he's gonna find some way to argue and it's just a waste of time. I did laugh a bit when he put words in my mouth. I never said BA had SBI employees within their ranks and it's not what I meant either but he just assumed it lol.
    • @Korn Will SBI be stripping the cheaters of their cheating victory? You already acknowledged they did cheat, therefore the only fair solution here is to give the number 3 guild the win, and move everyone else up two spaces. Give the rightful guild their victory and remove the cheaters from the standings. Let the unbanned BA and BAF members keep their mounts, but everything else (specifically the victory) should be taken away immediately.
    • So there are two points that I think are relevant to the talk of rolling back the season or stripping rewards:

      First, there are two types of players in a top end guild. There are core players and randoms. core players, like Creen, may have had knowledge, or he may not. However, random xyz filler player in BA probably had no idea what was going on at the top, and probably has no idea what the plan was hour to hour let alone where guild assets were going.

      Second, like Whated said, RMT has been going on since the beginning of the game. It is actually kind of hard coded into the game, where the mechanics of the game funnel resources of an entire guild to a few players. The why is, however, irrelevant more than the hard truth that everyone that is anyone knew/knows that this goes on everyday. It has been reported in many different ways to SBI, and nothing ever happens. It takes a very obvious example, like someone posting in their public channel on their discord that they are selling silver, for anything to ever happen.

      So with that said, why would you punish the randoms, who had no idea what was going on, while SBI has turned such a hard blind eye to people abusing this system for years?

      The way that this whole thing went down, where they waited for BA to announce they were quitting, and the way they decided to publicly announce who they banned looks much more like there was a falling out between BA leadership and SBI.
    • Hostility wrote:

      So there are two points that I think are relevant to the talk of rolling back the season or stripping rewards:

      First, there are two types of players in a top end guild. There are core players and randoms. core players, like Creen, may have had knowledge, or he may not. However, random xyz filler player in BA probably had no idea what was going on at the top, and probably has no idea what the plan was hour to hour let alone where guild assets were going.

      Second, like Whated said, RMT has been going on since the beginning of the game. It is actually kind of hard coded into the game, where the mechanics of the game funnel resources of an entire guild to a few players. The why is, however, irrelevant more than the hard truth that everyone that is anyone knew/knows that this goes on everyday. It has been reported in many different ways to SBI, and nothing ever happens. It takes a very obvious example, like someone posting in their public channel on their discord that they are selling silver, for anything to ever happen.

      So with that said, why would you punish the randoms, who had no idea what was going on, while SBI has turned such a hard blind eye to people abusing this system for years?

      The way that this whole thing went down, where they waited for BA to announce they were quitting, and the way they decided to publicly announce who they banned looks much more like there was a falling out between BA leadership and SBI.
      First off, if I knew BA was RMTing, so did "random xyz filler player" who is actually in the guild. So you reap what you sow.
      Secondly, the non-banned can still keep their mounts so they didn't play for nothing. That is a fair compromise. Nobody is saying to ban "random xyz filler player" also, just change the standings of the season rankings. For the hard work that "random xyz filler player" did, he/she still gets to keep their mount which is worth, what, 40m?
    • EvE Online learned after their T20 incident to never allow employees to play in 0.0 guilds (AO Black Zone equiv). AO needs to not allow GMs or even Mods to play for BZ guilds for obvious reasons and optics. Since the mod are now just reviewing chat logs, no need for them to be anything but paid employees not volunteers.
    • Blenfjorn wrote:

      Hostility wrote:

      So there are two points that I think are relevant to the talk of rolling back the season or stripping rewards:

      First, there are two types of players in a top end guild. There are core players and randoms. core players, like Creen, may have had knowledge, or he may not. However, random xyz filler player in BA probably had no idea what was going on at the top, and probably has no idea what the plan was hour to hour let alone where guild assets were going.

      Second, like Whated said, RMT has been going on since the beginning of the game. It is actually kind of hard coded into the game, where the mechanics of the game funnel resources of an entire guild to a few players. The why is, however, irrelevant more than the hard truth that everyone that is anyone knew/knows that this goes on everyday. It has been reported in many different ways to SBI, and nothing ever happens. It takes a very obvious example, like someone posting in their public channel on their discord that they are selling silver, for anything to ever happen.

      So with that said, why would you punish the randoms, who had no idea what was going on, while SBI has turned such a hard blind eye to people abusing this system for years?

      The way that this whole thing went down, where they waited for BA to announce they were quitting, and the way they decided to publicly announce who they banned looks much more like there was a falling out between BA leadership and SBI.
      First off, if I knew BA was RMTing, so did "random xyz filler player" who is actually in the guild. So you reap what you sow.Secondly, the non-banned can still keep their mounts so they didn't play for nothing. That is a fair compromise. Nobody is saying to ban "random xyz filler player" also, just change the standings of the season rankings. For the hard work that "random xyz filler player" did, he/she still gets to keep their mount which is worth, what, 40m?
      I had an alt in BA and one in CIR

      I always was suspecting Mojo & Syndic to RMT while having Alys in BA and CIR

      But i had no proof and there is no TOS that forces you to report or investigate..

      And I had no proof... So why touch or report the people that give you a good time .. not my job..
    • Trial_hard wrote:

      I had an alt in BA and one in CIR
      I always was suspecting Mojo & Syndic to RMT while having Alys in BA and CIR

      But i had no proof and there is no TOS that forces you to report or investigate..

      And I had no proof... So why touch or report the people that give you a good time .. not my job..
      I don't understand your point. I am not calling for anything to happen to you except that the guild championship is removed.
    • Blenfjorn wrote:

      Hostility wrote:

      So there are two points that I think are relevant to the talk of rolling back the season or stripping rewards:

      First, there are two types of players in a top end guild. There are core players and randoms. core players, like Creen, may have had knowledge, or he may not. However, random xyz filler player in BA probably had no idea what was going on at the top, and probably has no idea what the plan was hour to hour let alone where guild assets were going.

      Second, like Whated said, RMT has been going on since the beginning of the game. It is actually kind of hard coded into the game, where the mechanics of the game funnel resources of an entire guild to a few players. The why is, however, irrelevant more than the hard truth that everyone that is anyone knew/knows that this goes on everyday. It has been reported in many different ways to SBI, and nothing ever happens. It takes a very obvious example, like someone posting in their public channel on their discord that they are selling silver, for anything to ever happen.

      So with that said, why would you punish the randoms, who had no idea what was going on, while SBI has turned such a hard blind eye to people abusing this system for years?

      The way that this whole thing went down, where they waited for BA to announce they were quitting, and the way they decided to publicly announce who they banned looks much more like there was a falling out between BA leadership and SBI.
      First off, if I knew BA was RMTing, so did "random xyz filler player" who is actually in the guild. So you reap what you sow.Secondly, the non-banned can still keep their mounts so they didn't play for nothing. That is a fair compromise. Nobody is saying to ban "random xyz filler player" also, just change the standings of the season rankings. For the hard work that "random xyz filler player" did, he/she still gets to keep their mount which is worth, what, 40m?

      Ok, so lets talk about this for a second.

      First there are three types of evidence:

      Antidotal: Basically your personal experience dictates the evidence. If you had an experience, where a fish jumped out of the water and bit you, you now believe all fish jump out of the water and bite people.
      Logical: This is where you can put two pieces of logical information together to form an argument. If you see a person in the store, and they look tired and on foot. you could assume they walked to the store.
      Empirical: A measured statistic where you can take clear proof of something and demonstrate it as fact. 90% of people use Broadswords in CDs. It must be stronger than other weapons.

      So I think you can see where I am going here. Just because you think or feel a certain way doesn't make anything a fact. You can't back up your claim with hard proof, or even a logical argument without using your own personal experience as a grounds for that argument.

      Your experiences are almost always going to be totally different than someone else's and they could just be flat out wrong.

      Trial_hard wrote:

      Blenfjorn wrote:

      Hostility wrote:

      So there are two points that I think are relevant to the talk of rolling back the season or stripping rewards:

      First, there are two types of players in a top end guild. There are core players and randoms. core players, like Creen, may have had knowledge, or he may not. However, random xyz filler player in BA probably had no idea what was going on at the top, and probably has no idea what the plan was hour to hour let alone where guild assets were going.

      Second, like Whated said, RMT has been going on since the beginning of the game. It is actually kind of hard coded into the game, where the mechanics of the game funnel resources of an entire guild to a few players. The why is, however, irrelevant more than the hard truth that everyone that is anyone knew/knows that this goes on everyday. It has been reported in many different ways to SBI, and nothing ever happens. It takes a very obvious example, like someone posting in their public channel on their discord that they are selling silver, for anything to ever happen.

      So with that said, why would you punish the randoms, who had no idea what was going on, while SBI has turned such a hard blind eye to people abusing this system for years?

      The way that this whole thing went down, where they waited for BA to announce they were quitting, and the way they decided to publicly announce who they banned looks much more like there was a falling out between BA leadership and SBI.
      First off, if I knew BA was RMTing, so did "random xyz filler player" who is actually in the guild. So you reap what you sow.Secondly, the non-banned can still keep their mounts so they didn't play for nothing. That is a fair compromise. Nobody is saying to ban "random xyz filler player" also, just change the standings of the season rankings. For the hard work that "random xyz filler player" did, he/she still gets to keep their mount which is worth, what, 40m?
      I had an alt in BA and one in CIR
      I always was suspecting Mojo & Syndic to RMT while having Alys in BA and CIR

      But i had no proof and there is no TOS that forces you to report or investigate..

      And I had no proof... So why touch or report the people that give you a good time .. not my job..

      With that out of the way lets tackle this.

      This is a good piece of information, directly from a source within the guild, and another example of how this is SBI's fault more than anyone else's.

      So using this as an example, having a hunch that someone is RMTing, but SBI has done nothing about it what are you going to do?

      Lets also assume, because from this example he is basically saying every guild he joins he has a hunch is RMTing, that he think Elevate RMTs, or the Russians, or Banana's guild of the month, or any guild in the game, where does he go?

      Does he just not play the game, because anyone he joins could get banned for RMTing?

      Your logic and assumptions are fundamentally flawed @Blenfjorn and it probably stems from your limited involvement with the community on a level beyond PvE.
    • @Hostility You make some good points, not gunna lie. But one major problem with your post is that I never said the rest of the guild should be banned. Not once did I say that. I even conceded that they should be able to keep their crystal mounts. What I have said here is that "cheating is cheating". So if you cheated you don't deserve a win. The "you" here being BA/BAF. We know they cheated. Do we know if they paid PvPers a portion of the RMT funds? No we don't know that for sure and can't prove it. That said, if you cheat, even if it is in a way that APPEARS to be detrimental to your season standings, it is still cheating.

      I still also maintain that my lack of involvement in this content makes me a good arbitrator. I am not in BA/BAF and I am also not in one of the competing guilds. Not saying my word is 100% the gold standard here, but I come from a neutral position on the playing field. I have nothing to gain or lose either way.

      Anyways, I said all I want to about this, both here and on the RT. We could go back and forth all week long. I hope the powers that be make the right decision, but if they do not, my life remains the same so I am not going to spend more time on this.
    • I'm also neutral here and i say, removing BA win is not fair with the 600 other members that wasted their times this season doing the hard work (they are the ones who got all the points for this season, not the guy who did rmt), if SBI wants to start punishing players for being in the same guild as someone who did rmt, they should at least start revealing the names of people being banned for that

      Again, the members have nothing to do with that, removing the season win is basically saying

      "remember all the silver you donated to the guild this season? well, they made fool of you and they sold the silver for irl money, and as a punishment for being a fool i'll remove ur season win and all the effort you did this season was for nothing cause u didnt guess there were people rmting while you were fighting for castles and raiding mages"
    • xGunner wrote:

      I'm also neutral here and i say, removing BA win is not fair with the 600 other members that wasted their times this season doing the hard work (they are the ones who got all the points for this season, not the guy who did rmt), if SBI wants to start punishing players for being in the same guild as someone who did rmt, they should at least start revealing the names of people being banned for that

      Again, the members have nothing to do with that, removing the season win is basically saying

      "remember all the silver you donated to the guild this season? well, they made fool of you and they sold the silver for irl money, and as a punishment for being a fool i'll remove ur season win and all the effort you did this season was for nothing cause u didnt guess there were people rmting while you were fighting for castles and raiding mages"
      If you work for a druglord, you may find yourself without a job and behind bars anyways, do you?
    • Gabumon wrote:

      xGunner wrote:

      I'm also neutral here and i say, removing BA win is not fair with the 600 other members that wasted their times this season doing the hard work (they are the ones who got all the points for this season, not the guy who did rmt), if SBI wants to start punishing players for being in the same guild as someone who did rmt, they should at least start revealing the names of people being banned for that

      Again, the members have nothing to do with that, removing the season win is basically saying

      "remember all the silver you donated to the guild this season? well, they made fool of you and they sold the silver for irl money, and as a punishment for being a fool i'll remove ur season win and all the effort you did this season was for nothing cause u didnt guess there were people rmting while you were fighting for castles and raiding mages"
      if you work for a druglord, you may find yourself without a job and behind bars annyways, do you?
      Good point, if you work in a company and your boss is stealing from that company, would you go to jail because of that? i dont think so
    • xGunner wrote:

      I'm also neutral here and i say, removing BA win is not fair with the 600 other members that wasted their times this season doing the hard work (they are the ones who got all the points for this season, not the guy who did rmt), if SBI wants to start punishing players for being in the same guild as someone who did rmt, they should at least start revealing the names of people being banned for that

      Again, the members have nothing to do with that, removing the season win is basically saying

      "remember all the silver you donated to the guild this season? well, they made fool of you and they sold the silver for irl money, and as a punishment for being a fool i'll remove ur season win and all the effort you did this season was for nothing cause u didnt guess there were people rmting while you were fighting for castles and raiding mages"
      Actually, SBI punishing BA for cheating/RMTing would have sent a powerful message to the entire community that cheating and using guild assets for RMT operations will not be tolerated. Regardless of who was involved or how many were involved. The fact that BA tried to claim they didn't know what was going on is laughable. So billions of silver/assets can constantly go missing from the guild and the guild's leadership and members don't care? How inept are you people. Not only that, SBI told BA either before or during the season to stop cheating and they didn't. BA was using their members, season standing, influence, coalition and assets to generate income to support RMT operations. We do not know the scope/scale of these operations. Regardless, BA's guild assets were being used.

      There was quite a few questionable BA guild events that took place during the season and you are telling me the entire guild - leadership and members, didn't know or didn't care it was happening? They probably didn't care as long as they were winning the season, right?

      Here's a couple of examples -

      - During this season you had BA putting billions of silver into crafting stations multiple times so their RMTers could easily withdraw the funds. This was posted on reddit.
      - Someone "looted" BA for billions, probably another way for BA's leadership to move funds/assets to RMTers so it wasn't so obvious to their members/community. This was posted on reddit as well.
      - BA had a member doing giveways on twitch for subs/donations using guild assets. That individual stopped most likely after being warned. BTW - That person was banned as part of this ban wave.

      All the red flags were there during the season yet SBI waited until the season was over to hand out the punishment? That punishment was only banning a few accounts? Laughable. Regardless, BA was allowed to cheat and it continued during the season and they weren't stopped by SBI until the season was over. I guess SBI finally had enough once it started to impact their bottom line. Shameful.

      SBI should have at least removed all of BA's guild assets from the game for supporting RMT operations. Normally, all assets supporting RMT operations are removed from the game. SBI didn't, why is that? It seems SBI is giving BA a huge pass despite the warnings. Again, shameful.
    • I also do not believe BA should get their ranking and rewards based on what was done through RMT by their leadership. I would argue that because the guild leaders decided to RMT, it's strategy for RMT impacted the difficulty of scoring season points for their guild. Since most of the season, their points they earned were uncontested, I believe their strategy for denying content so they can RMT more in the BZ had a significant role to play on them getting first place.

      Most of the season points BA got were uncontested during the season. Mass allying their competition and cluster queuing zones with a "anything to win" type of strategy is generally not what players who play games for fun would do. If not for pushing an ulterior motive like making RL money, this strategy of denying BZ content would not be as effective and score them so many uncontested season points. I would argue that BA go out of their way to deny content, because it helps them generate more silver for them to RMT. It just so happens that mass allying their competitors, and cluster queuing zones until their competition quit the game just happens to make it easier for them to get #1 in the season. Since most of the points earned were uncontested, they don't deserve the rank and rewards for the season for breaking this rule.
    • Nesnes wrote:

      RMT is extremely harmful to the game’s power balance and in-game economy.
      As said before on the impacts of RMT from the GM.If the leadership in BA didn't RMT this much before, and pushed for an RMT empire as big as it was, then I don't believe BA would have gotten all their season points so easily. Most of the season, their season points went uncontested.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by thisismine ().

    • Sinatra.SUN wrote:

      3.RMT destroying game power balance.
      Could someone explain how a guildleader selling ingame silver for reallife money disrupts the balance?. Selling silver is literally shooting yourself in the foot, because all your wealth is being crippled making your guild poorer and giving an advantage to the enemy. Buying silver for money is the activity that ACTUALLY can disrupt the power balance. That is the most damaging form of RMT, and that is already in the game run by SBI themselves. It doesnt destroy the power balance, but it destroys the SBI business model for the game. This is also valid because thats actually true - and that is the argument you should use instead of some "disrupting power balance" which it simply doesnt.
      So a lot of players are confused about how RMT affects the game and how it disrupts the balance of power. A guild that is incentivized to profit in RL is not thinking about making content for its guild/alliance/coalition but is always under the influence of making silver to convert to real life money. So rather then providing content that is competitive, it will look for ways to generate silver or cut costs. Another thing would be to monetize content that generates a lot of silver and deny that content in any way possible to everyone else, including coming up with strategies like cluster queuing the map to the point where no opponents can be in that map.

      RMT guilds can also be incentivized to mass ally what should have been their opponents so they don't have to zvz for an objective that would have costed them silver had they needed to pay out regears. Cluster queue maps so the opponents would leave rather then doing actual combat (again to cut costs so they don't have to regear). Pushing for rental agreements with restrictions like don't fight us, don't do this content, don't compete here and there as it is part of their income source. As you mentioned, since these guilds require the silver they RMT, they are incentivized by RL money to deny content that costs them silver, and focus on strategies that ensure they get more silver they can RMT. So for these guilds, a better way of making sure they can still RMT, is by removing these costs. You are right in that having less silver for the guild would bad for a guild, but if that guild was incentivized to lower the amount of costs they had, then they would be able to use those savings to RMT more.

      Another thing is that a guild that RMTs have different incentives it can pay out. I would argue that guilds like that could use RMT incentives which are more appealing then an average guild that only has silver. They use extra rental funds to perhaps pay for shot callers to move from 1 guild to another, or crystal teams to fight for the guild or other guilds to join their alliance that normal incentives with silver can't get.

      The post was edited 8 times, last by thisismine ().