Dev Talk: War Gloves and HQ Hideouts

    • Ferndor wrote:

      Syndic wrote:

      So you gonna discourage large-scale organization by actively incentivizing recruiting everything under the sun because hideouts will need 24/7 camping to be destroyed.

      Gotcha, lemme know how that big brain plan works out. :D
      Invulnerable HQ status is irrelevant. POE & co simply need to send gank squads and target a zone until their inhabitants give up and pay rent. At some point their guild members will not want to play in the zone anymore. So there is a different angle but the renting problem remaining.And I am pretty sure that POE is capable of handling a large number of zones with headquarters either themselves or by outsourcing the bullying to other groups. I can't even blame them for doing this.
      So why do we get invulnerable HQs again?
      You'd have to have groups on 24/7 for this to happen as Cores spawn randomly on random timeslots. There's no way you'd be able to lockdown massive clumps of the Outlands and block guilds obtaining Cores.

      I look forward to seeing how this plays out and I hope loads of smaller guilds can finally experience the Outlands without limitations placed upon them via their rental contracts.
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    • Quagga wrote:

      syndic laughing through his tears, rent empire falls ? :D :D

      and seriously.
      But won't it be a bigger cancer... spam HQ hideouts to that everyone with set home option and clusters turns into "portal zone"
      don't think so since I doubt the dev will make power cores spawn unlimited. which means it will be a finite resource limiting the amount of HQ's that can be maintained at once.
    • This HQ Hideouts is a terrible idea, smaller guilds won't be able to maintein themselves in a Zone full of zombies/slaves/renters from the the big coalitions.

      It's a backfire, it will help increase even more the power those big groups have, since now they will farm invencible HQ everywhere.

      Instead of solving the problems you are just creating more.
    • The_Support_God wrote:

      you dont see the new backgrounds and new palm trees?
      Ok, maybe I'm seeing the palm trees. The backgrounds don't look all that different and it's really hard to tell because they unlock the camera for this footage and so it's hard to tell if what you're seeing is a product of something new or it just appears new because the viewing angle is 3D versus 2D.
    • Hideouts upkeep increase is very harsh. It will mess with the entire economy of the outlands. We ARE a small guild who worked hard to join an area in ARCH lands. It will be the small guilds that suffer the most. We won't be able to afford to keep our hideout fed/repaired! We spent months gathering to afford an expensive t3 hideout.

      Perhaps we can repair hideouts with Siphoned Energy, so that inactive guilds are punished for having dead hideouts? Wouldn't that also solve your problem?
    • MasterisMK wrote:

      Can we get some info regarding what are guild level requirements for these HQ's?
      Details will follow, but as a general rule:
      • To set-up and maintain an HQ in the roads or in lower end Outlands zones will be relatively easy, i.e. small active guilds will be able to do so. Due to upkeep requirements being low, contesting these through ongoing 24//7 sieges (to prevent power cores from being injected) will also be very hard and time intensive, hence, making it extremely hard if not impossible to consistently enforce rental payments. We really think that with these changes, we can finally make good on the promise of the made with the Queen update, namely that hideouts work well as a home in the Outlands, also for smaller guilds.
      • On the other hand, setting-up and maintaining an HQ in the high end Outland zones will be quite hard, meaning that those can be contested quite well ongoing open world campaigns against them.
      In any event, in both cases, having a dominant CTA force will not be enough to nuke HQs. The idea here is that we want to encourage ongoing small and mid scale open world activity, too. This goes hand in hand with the other features coming in the next update, which will generally buff the open world and expand the content that is offered there - both for PvP and PvE and provide a series of other incentives to live in the Outlands.
    • Korn wrote:

      MasterisMK wrote:

      Can we get some info regarding what are guild level requirements for these HQ's?
      Details will follow, but as a general rule:
      • To set-up and maintain an HQ in the roads or in lower end Outlands zones will be relatively easy, i.e. small active guilds will be able to do so. Due to upkeep requirements being low, contesting these through ongoing 24//7 sieges (to prevent power cores from being injected) will also be very hard and time intensive, hence, making it extremely hard if not impossible to consistently enforce rental payments. We really think that with these changes, we can finally make good on the promise of the made with the Queen update, namely that hideouts work well as a home in the Outlands, also for smaller guilds.
      • On the other hand, setting-up and maintaining an HQ in the high end Outland zones will be quite hard, meaning that those can be contested quite well ongoing open world campaigns against them.
      In any event, in both cases, having a dominant CTA force will not be enough to nuke HQs. The idea here is that we want to encourage ongoing small and mid scale open world activity, too. This goes hand in hand with the other features coming in the next update, which will generally buff the open world and expand the content that is offered there - both for PvP and PvE and provide a series of other incentives to live in the Outlands.
      Why would you make roads HO elegible for HQ? Outlands sure, but roads? That's not open world at all, and right now these maps are crowded, infested with HO, many of them just of alt guilds. Right now it's pretty difficult to attack and enter a zone (since they can just camp the entrances 24/7 with just a few guys and all spots are covered) and now you're giving them the possibility to have an indestructible HO?

      Gryffyth:Toma tu arma y síguenos en discord.gg/ktrNXWN
    • Neesh wrote:

      Why would you make roads HO elegible for HQ? Outlands sure, but roads? That's not open world at all, and right now these maps are crowded, infested with HO, many of them just of alt guilds. Right now it's pretty difficult to attack and enter a zone (since they can just camp the entrances 24/7 with just a few guys and all spots are covered) and now you're giving them the possibility to have an indestructible HO?

      We are aware of the current issues with roads HOs, in particular the fact that all slots are being taken to block a zone and how difficult is to take it in that case. HQs shouldn't make this any worse, but possibly better as the need to take all slots with (idle) hideouts diminishes. In addition to that, the increased upkeep mechanic based on the number of hideouts in a zone will also have an impact - i.e. instead of having 10 hideouts blocking the zone, 1 HQ will be enough and far more economical. Also note that "HQ spam" isn't really possible that easily. Active guilds will be able to earn an HQ, but you'll certainly not being seeing a far smaller number of HQs than you currently have as hideouts. Also, even if you get 10 active guilds to agree to take 1 road zone with 10 HQs (one each), that will make the HQ upkeep via energy significantly harder as you'd have to get all of these energy crystals locally as they can't be easily transported.

      Having said all of the above, tackling hideout balance in the roads in general is on our priority list, however, more significant changes most likely won't be part of the next update yet as we want to see the HQ and hideout upkeep increase impact first.
    • Korn wrote:

      Neesh wrote:

      Why would you make roads HO elegible for HQ? Outlands sure, but roads? That's not open world at all, and right now these maps are crowded, infested with HO, many of them just of alt guilds. Right now it's pretty difficult to attack and enter a zone (since they can just camp the entrances 24/7 with just a few guys and all spots are covered) and now you're giving them the possibility to have an indestructible HO?
      We are aware of the current issues with roads HOs, in particular the fact that all slots are being taken to block a zone and how difficult is to take it in that case. HQs shouldn't make this any worse, but possibly better as the need to take all slots with (idle) hideouts diminishes. In addition to that, the increased upkeep mechanic based on the number of hideouts in a zone will also have an impact - i.e. instead of having 10 hideouts blocking the zone, 1 HQ will be enough and far more economical. Also note that "HQ spam" isn't really possible that easily. Active guilds will be able to earn an HQ, but you'll certainly not being seeing a far smaller number of HQs than you currently have as hideouts. Also, even if you get 10 active guilds to agree to take 1 road zone with 10 HQs (one each), that will make the HQ upkeep via energy significantly harder as you'd have to get all of these energy crystals locally as they can't be easily transported.

      Having said all of the above, tackling hideout balance in the roads in general is on our priority list, however, more significant changes most likely won't be part of the next update yet as we want to see the HQ and hideout upkeep increase impact first.
      Thanks for your detailed answer, it seems you'll wait to see how this works out in roads first to see if there is a necessity to change stuff.

      One last question however, about this:

      "the increased upkeep mechanic based on the number of hideouts in a zone will also have an impact".

      Can we have an estimate of how much the upkeep mechanic will increase?

      Edit (Another question):

      "instead of having 10 hideouts blocking the zone, 1 HQ will be enough and far more economical."

      But I thought only the guild owning the HQ could enter? Anyways, reality in roads it's not always 1 guild spamming HO, but sometimes some guilds have naps with each other (nothing bad honestly), but if every guild in that case would make their own HQ then... at least consider adding more rests xD.

      Gryffyth:Toma tu arma y síguenos en discord.gg/ktrNXWN

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Neesh ().

    • Neesh wrote:

      Korn wrote:

      Neesh wrote:

      Why would you make roads HO elegible for HQ? Outlands sure, but roads? That's not open world at all, and right now these maps are crowded, infested with HO, many of them just of alt guilds. Right now it's pretty difficult to attack and enter a zone (since they can just camp the entrances 24/7 with just a few guys and all spots are covered) and now you're giving them the possibility to have an indestructible HO?
      We are aware of the current issues with roads HOs, in particular the fact that all slots are being taken to block a zone and how difficult is to take it in that case. HQs shouldn't make this any worse, but possibly better as the need to take all slots with (idle) hideouts diminishes. In addition to that, the increased upkeep mechanic based on the number of hideouts in a zone will also have an impact - i.e. instead of having 10 hideouts blocking the zone, 1 HQ will be enough and far more economical. Also note that "HQ spam" isn't really possible that easily. Active guilds will be able to earn an HQ, but you'll certainly not being seeing a far smaller number of HQs than you currently have as hideouts. Also, even if you get 10 active guilds to agree to take 1 road zone with 10 HQs (one each), that will make the HQ upkeep via energy significantly harder as you'd have to get all of these energy crystals locally as they can't be easily transported.
      Having said all of the above, tackling hideout balance in the roads in general is on our priority list, however, more significant changes most likely won't be part of the next update yet as we want to see the HQ and hideout upkeep increase impact first.
      Thanks for your detailed answer, it seems you'll wait to see how this works out in roads first to see if there is a necessity to change stuff.
      One last question however, about this:

      "the increased upkeep mechanic based on the number of hideouts in a zone will also have an impact".

      Can we have an estimate of how much the upkeep mechanic will increase?

      Edit (Another question):

      "instead of having 10 hideouts blocking the zone, 1 HQ will be enough and far more economical."

      But I thought only the guild owning the HQ could enter? Anyways, reality in roads it's not always 1 guild spamming HO, but sometimes some guilds have naps with each other (nothing bad honestly), but if every guild in that case would make their own HQ then... at least consider adding more rests xD.
      it seems you missed that in the answer. So I'll repeat it. It will be practically impossible to maintain 8 HQ's in the road zone. You need "power cores" to maintain HQ. And these it seems will be hard to come by to maintain that many HQ's. That will encourage conflict in same zone.
    • MasterisMK wrote:

      it seems you missed that in the answer. So I'll repeat it. It will be practically impossible to maintain 8 HQ's in the road zone. You need "power cores" to maintain HQ. And these it seems will be hard to come by to maintain that many HQ's. That will encourage conflict in same zone.
      So it will stop handhold in HO Zones too and people will kill each other? Oh no. What a bad chance :D
      Come on your serious? Fight for your HOs.
      Small Scaler, Meuchelmörder & Notfall-Nature-Healer
      Proscriptus
      Ruhm und Ehre erwarten euch nur auf dem Schlachtfeld!
    • These reasonings and beliefs about the HQ hideouts are insane. You completely missunderstand why large groups are formed, how they will use this new system, how to increase power projection of smaller guilds and how to disrupt organisation of the larger groups.

      It's too late for you to scrap this idea even if you did stop and think about how utterly stupid it is so it'll be funny to see the next big update after this intended to disrupt HQs lol
    • so... a monk weapon line? Sounds like it's going to be a hot ganking line. Not really interested though. Aesthetically, meh. Lightning staffs are probably going to be one of the next staffs. Probably a new healing line, melee, and ranged/magic. Guess this is the melee, not too excited. Wonder what other people think.
    • Sethis wrote:

      I do not understand, black hands will be included in the new weapon tree? If yes, what is a replacement for them in daggers tree? If not, then how can you explain black hands in daggers tree when there is separate gloves tree?
      Very nice question!
      I was thinking exactly the same!

      And I missed something? Two new weapons line? So gloves are just one and the other?
    • CaptainBastard wrote:

      Sethis wrote:

      I do not understand, black hands will be included in the new weapon tree? If yes, what is a replacement for them in daggers tree? If not, then how can you explain black hands in daggers tree when there is separate gloves tree?
      Very nice question!I was thinking exactly the same!

      And I missed something? Two new weapons line? So gloves are just one and the other?
      I personally hope for an early fire arm branch ( musket, flintlock pistol .. )
    • scions wrote:

      CaptainBastard wrote:

      Sethis wrote:

      I do not understand, black hands will be included in the new weapon tree? If yes, what is a replacement for them in daggers tree? If not, then how can you explain black hands in daggers tree when there is separate gloves tree?
      Very nice question!I was thinking exactly the same!
      And I missed something? Two new weapons line? So gloves are just one and the other?
      I personally hope for an early fire arm branch ( musket, flintlock pistol .. )
      it's between that, some sort of whip or boomerang(please no boomerang the early fire arm would be BANGER)
    • Korn wrote:

      MasterisMK wrote:

      Can we get some info regarding what are guild level requirements for these HQ's?
      Details will follow, but as a general rule:
      • To set-up and maintain an HQ in the roads or in lower end Outlands zones will be relatively easy, i.e. small active guilds will be able to do so. Due to upkeep requirements being low, contesting these through ongoing 24//7 sieges (to prevent power cores from being injected) will also be very hard and time intensive, hence, making it extremely hard if not impossible to consistently enforce rental payments. We really think that with these changes, we can finally make good on the promise of the made with the Queen update, namely that hideouts work well as a home in the Outlands, also for smaller guilds.
      • On the other hand, setting-up and maintaining an HQ in the high end Outland zones will be quite hard, meaning that those can be contested quite well ongoing open world campaigns against them.
      In any event, in both cases, having a dominant CTA force will not be enough to nuke HQs. The idea here is that we want to encourage ongoing small and mid scale open world activity, too. This goes hand in hand with the other features coming in the next update, which will generally buff the open world and expand the content that is offered there - both for PvP and PvE and provide a series of other incentives to live in the Outlands.

      You do realize I'm gonna do things with these HQ hideouts right?

      Also, rental hideouts went out of style +3 months ago.