Rework of the Roads of Avalon

    • Roads of Avalon
    • hFly wrote:

      paxprobellum wrote:

      I don't think you understand the roads at all. Terrible ideas all around.
      Since i don't understand anything, why don't you try to explain yourself?Why do you think my ideas are bad? Cause I followed logic in every step, yet comming here and just saying "bad" "terrible" seems childish and stupid.
      Try to enlight me.

      I was going to make a rebuttal post, but you have just proposed a bunch of random changes that indicate you either 1) don't play in the roads and/or 2) don't understand their design objectives. Some examples:

      > Flagging on Roads
      Goes against everything the roads is about (open world pvp, limited engagement size, top tier rewards, etc.) See original comment.

      > Remove random connections in the roads.
      People that live in the roads rely on the "random" connections, particularly from high tier holes to royals. This change would make the roads significantly less active. Also goes against the entire spirit of the roads (see original comment).

      > Getting rid of green chests
      In the same paragraph as "it's supposed to be a solo/small group thing" - wtf? See original comment.

      > Greatly increase the amount of static dungeons
      I like the statics in the roads, but I don't think they need to be 'greatly increased' - they are fine. See original comment.
    • Gonna answer in your own post to make thinks easier.
      Note that when I say "people" I mean the casual player, I go to the roads and go to the blackzones often to do content, and even if i'm bad at it I do, sure there are lots of ppl who are way better than me and can excel in a lot more ways than I do.

      paxprobellum wrote:

      I was going to make a rebuttal post, but you have just proposed a bunch of random changes that indicate you either 1) don't play in the roads and/or 2) don't understand their design objectives. Some examples:



      1A: Yes, I undestand their design and I also played for quite a while in them, when I had a HO and was in an OK guild there we had an amazing time there, but that is just because we were floading the nerby zones so we had gatherers, ganking parties, chest parties and other ones roaming around the roads constantly. Not only that we were tracking constantly and recording conections so we knew where to go, that only worked because we had more than 200 ppl doing that.
      If we look and what the roads are designed to be (a place for solo/small scale group to do content and can be used to transport) my suggestions are there to make things better in this aspect.

      _______________________________________________________

      > Flagging on Roads
      Goes against everything the roads is about (open world pvp, limited engagement size, top tier rewards, etc.) See original comment.


      2A: No it does not, there is NO DOWNSIDE to flagging on the roads or even the black zone, see that i'm not saying the buffs applied to Royals should be applied, I even don't think the buffs/debuffs I recommended are necessary, but I do think flagging on blacks IS A NECESSITY.
      Just because you can attack everyone and are not punished by it doesn't mean you should, and by making every name red and possible to attack you are indirectly "forcing people to attack each other", this is also one of the reasons BZ is "safe" only for mega-alliances right now, if everything you see is blue and green you are feeling kinda safe and you try to do no-pvp content, you get wary when you see Red and stop doing that content. That is why ppl banded together to form mega-alliances and by just changing the flag system on blacks and roads you could both enable a "scout party no flagged" and also help people do content there without being from a major alliance.

      _______________________________________________________

      > Remove random connections in the roads.
      People that live in the roads rely on the "random" connections, particularly from high tier holes to royals. This change would make the roads significantly less active. Also goes against the entire spirit of the roads (see original comment).


      3A: I never say to remove the random conections, I said to enhance the archtecture by using pseudorandomness to make at least a little sense. I'm not saying that a portal from Haytor should always lead to the same map and then that map should lead to the blackzone. I'm saying that by enhancing the archtecture you first, help people to find the content they need. Second you don't rely too much in the tools major alliances have to travel there, that helps at least the casual players and minor guilds and leverage a little the powers from there (that should be the point of the roads anyway).

      _______________________________________________________


      > Getting rid of green chests

      In the same paragraph as "it's supposed to be a solo/small group thing" - wtf? See original comment.
      4A: I didn't mean the Green chests as the ones on the map, I meant the Green rarity that you get from any of the chests, like Green (common), Blue (uncommon), Purple (rare), Yellow (legendary).
      I don't know if you are aware but the chest node only defines what type of content is there, not the rarity of the chest. And if you actually have done content on the roads you should also know how it is to kill an avalonian raid (the yellow chest on the map) and get a green chest from it (around 2m loot to be splitted), but Blues go (10m), Purple (30m), Yellow (60m). That why, to make it easier just "remove the green rarity" or buff it to be at least a content that is a little worth, caus is just depression when you get a green chest for the risk you are taking going there.

      _______________________________________________________

      > Greatly increase the amount of static dungeons
      I like the statics in the roads, but I don't think they need to be 'greatly increased' - they are fine. See original comment.


      5A: If you like them is because you don't do them, there are too few and they are a spotlight to gankers, which causes it to be way harder than it should be without a party protecting you. And if you need parties protecting your party, well, that isn't really the point of the Roads.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by hFly ().

    • hFly wrote:

      _______________________________________________________

      > Flagging on Roads
      Goes against everything the roads is about (open world pvp, limited engagement size, top tier rewards, etc.) See original comment.


      2A: No it does not, there is NO DOWNSIDE to flagging on the roads or even the black zone, see that i'm not saying the buffs applied to Royals should be applied, I even don't think the buffs/debuffs I recommended are necessary, but I do think flagging on blacks IS A NECESSITY.
      Just because you can attack everyone and are not punished by it doesn't mean you should, and by making every name red and possible to attack you are indirectly "forcing people to attack each other", this is also one of the reasons BZ is "safe" only for mega-alliances right now, if everything you see is blue and green you are feeling kinda safe and you try to do no-pvp content, you get wary when you see Red and stop doing that content. That is why ppl banded together to form mega-alliances and by just changing the flag system on blacks and roads you could both enable a "scout party no flagged" and also help people do content there without being from a major alliance.

      Flagging is unnecessary - everyone "flags up" as soon as you enter the roads. Or, in other words, there are no 'casual bystanders' (read: scouts/spies) in the roads. This is a feature, not a bug. See original comment.

      hFly wrote:

      > Remove random connections in the roads.
      People that live in the roads rely on the "random" connections, particularly from high tier holes to royals. This change would make the roads significantly less active. Also goes against the entire spirit of the roads (see original comment).


      3A: I never say to remove the random conections, I said to enhance the archtecture by using pseudorandomness to make at least a little sense. I'm not saying that a portal from Haytor should always lead to the same map and then that map should lead to the blackzone. I'm saying that by enhancing the archtecture you first, help people to find the content they need. Second you don't rely too much in the tools major alliances have to travel there, that helps at least the casual players and minor guilds and leverage a little the powers from there (that should be the point of the roads anyway).

      You would need to propose more specifics for me to say 'yes' or 'no'. I am not against adding more 'rules' to the random connections ala EVE.

      hFly wrote:

      > Getting rid of green chests

      In the same paragraph as "it's supposed to be a solo/small group thing" - wtf? See original comment.
      4A: I didn't mean the Green chests as the ones on the map, I meant the Green rarity that you get from any of the chests, like Green (common), Blue (uncommon), Purple (rare), Yellow (legendary).
      I don't know if you are aware but the chest node only defines what type of content is there, not the rarity of the chest. And if you actually have done content on the roads you should also know how it is to kill an avalonian raid (the yellow chest on the map) and get a green chest from it (around 2m loot to be splitted), but Blues go (10m), Purple (30m), Yellow (60m). That why, to make it easier just "remove the green rarity" or buff it to be at least a content that is a little worth, caus is just depression when you get a green chest for the risk you are taking going there.

      I thought you meant getting rid of the green chests (silly me). Your actual suggestion is not useful - you can get crappy blue chests too. It's all RNG based on in-game economy. This is not really a 'roads' issue.

      hFly wrote:

      > Greatly increase the amount of static dungeons
      I like the statics in the roads, but I don't think they need to be 'greatly increased' - they are fine. See original comment.


      5A: If you like them is because you don't do them, there are too few and they are a spotlight to gankers, which causes it to be way harder than it should be without a party protecting you. And if you need parties protecting your party, well, that isn't really the point of the Roads.
      Statics are good and I do them regularly. They are intended to be a 'high convenience, high risk, high reward' scenario and they work well from that perspective. If there were a million of them, they would just be 'high convenience, high reward' which is against the spirit of the roads (see original comment).
    • paxprobellum wrote:

      Flagging is unnecessary - everyone "flags up" as soon as you enter the roads. Or, in other words, there are no 'casual bystanders' (read: scouts/spies) in the roads. This is a feature, not a bug. See original comment.

      A: Yes I know, never said it was bug, read again my post cause I already explained there the reason I think we should have the need to flag up even in blacks and roads.


      ____



      You would need to propose more specifics for me to say 'yes' or 'no'. I am not against adding more 'rules' to the random connections ala EVE.

      A: I explained in the original thread, T4 zones would lead to T4 road carrefours, t6 to t6, etc. Then we would travel using a logic like these rules:
      - carrefours connect same tier overworld and same tier corridors.
      - corridors connect:
      ---- Same tier carrefours
      ---- Same tier rests
      ---- Same tier sanctuaries
      ---- Same tier corridors (this should at least be 2 active)
      ---- +1 tier corridors
      ---- -1 tier corridors
      - Rests and sanctuary connects to corridors only.


      This would at least make some sense to travel, and of course all conections wouldn't always be active but the logic is this one.


      So if you are in a hideout at a T7 zone the closest path to a city would be usually:
      T7 rest > T7 corridor > T6 corridor > T5 corridor > T5 carrefour > T5 yellowzone


      _____



      I thought you meant getting rid of the green chests (silly me). Your actual suggestion is not useful - you can get crappy blue chests too. It's all RNG based on in-game economy. This is not really a 'roads' issue.

      A: I am well aware of rng factor. What I said is an average value, my point is that the average value of green chests isnt worth the risk, and the blue one STARTS TO GET WORTH IT. Not meaning you always will get something but on average is somethin good, but green is usually bad, the most prevalent and rarely you get something good.
      So yes, I'm only saying that loot in GREEN CHEST should be changed, cause blue, purple and yellow are in a good spot, as I said, so I don't think we should change them, else they become broken.


      ___


      Statics are good and I do them regularly. They are intended to be a 'high convenience, high risk, high reward' scenario and they work well from that perspective. If there were a million of them, they would just be 'high convenience, high reward' which is against the spirit of the roads (see original comment)


      A: not saying that we should get less risk, just more dgs, cause you can close a map with 3 dgs in less than 30min and then you "close the map" for almost 1h, as a solo player, alone. That is considering that the map has 3 dgs, but usually we see more with 1 or 2, rarely 3 or more. So you get the idea, how can you say that is "worth" if a solo guy can farm ALL OF IT ALONE and there is still more downtime than uptime. The same goes for resources, you can clean a map easily alone, that was also my point for gathering changes.
      The amount of dungeons is way too little so ppl dont go there do content usually. Cause is high risk high reward without the content usually

      The post was edited 3 times, last by hFly ().

    • 0 - Never, flagging systems actively kill pvp content and devalues all the rewards. If you want super low risk, low reward, go to the royals.
      1 - Just makes dropping a scout in a high tier zones wayyy more efficient and would make T4 / lower tier roads almost completely unused (its great that you can find a great road randomly)
      2 - Not needed? Maybe increase respawn rates to stop roads from drying up (its good that there is unpredictability, as it makes low tier zones still potentially worth it to check and gather)
      3 - Really the solutions should be either increasing silver bag drop or increasing base loot and lowering mods on high-rarity chests (should happen across all loot tables in the game). On statics, just increase the respawn rate so people can rotate them, these dungeons are not meant to be safe (also nobody is going to do cdgs/hgs out of a roads HO lmao).

      Overall, you're suggestions try to make the roads safer, and less random, when that is the exact opposite of what they're supposed to be. Safety only devalues the content, and making the roads more predictable leaves the low tier roads unused.