Pike/Glaive/trinity... Same single Target weapon

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    • as I said, if you dont analyze spear as single damage target weapon, you are wrong:

      the damage to solo target you have with spear, double dagger and 1 handed dagger dont match AoE match by Axes, or melee with mobility by swords. its totally different gameplay.
      thats why you mostly play one handed spear being most balanced weapon at corrupted but its not playable at all at gvg , zvz.

      If I wanna play gvg open world or avalon roads as melee you mostly play great axe or realmbreaker as melee bruiser. spear its not best option here.



      At zvz its clear ranged weapons are meta (brimstone, avalon bow, energy shaper)


      crystal its been meta the glaive with royal armor... more a kind of functional frankestein with outplacing meta than damage properly.
    • @PaladinJavier

      the playstyles differ slightly though

      Pike= mostly one shot builds with high damage E. even using it normally in brawler build hits very hard
      glaive= less damage than pike but has more cc/utility with pull
      trinity spear= i-frame and team based speed steroid

      pike has the lowest cooldown on E at 15 seconds with highest single target damage on hit

      Glaive has 20(formerly 15) second cooldown with the least amount of damage among the 3 but as seen in crystals the pull that it provides allow for kidnapping comps to kill a single target
      Glaive has replace the role melee dps (axe) and tank (iron clad staff) and allow the use of a proper tank aka great hammer

      then there is trinity with a long cooldown of 30 seconds but has the most power built into the E on par with most other 30 sec E
      i-frame, decent AoE daamge on Hit, CC root on hit, team wide aa speed and move speed buff and cast speed buff

      sure in a solo environment such as Corrupted dungeon it all looks the same (in terms of single target damage) but if you look from a utility point of view it has huge difference in what they provide to group play
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    • Isn't this a little too low? 120% from 3 stacks -> 96%
      Before the SS charges got buffed they were at 35% each, totalling 105% at 3 stacks.

      All it took for spears to cross from trash-tier to overtuned was the 5% per stack AA damage buff, and considering the heavy utility nature of the weapon shouldn't this be accessed more carefully?
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      @PaladinJavier

      the playstyles differ slightly though

      Pike= mostly one shot builds with high damage E. even using it normally in brawler build hits very hard
      glaive= less damage than pike but has more cc/utility with pull
      trinity spear= i-frame and team based speed steroid

      pike has the lowest cooldown on E at 15 seconds with highest single target damage on hit

      Glaive has 20(formerly 15) second cooldown with the least amount of damage among the 3 but as seen in crystals the pull that it provides allow for kidnapping comps to kill a single target
      Glaive has replace the role melee dps (axe) and tank (iron clad staff) and allow the use of a proper tank aka great hammer

      then there is trinity with a long cooldown of 30 seconds but has the most power built into the E on par with most other 30 sec E
      i-frame, decent AoE daamge on Hit, CC root on hit, team wide aa speed and move speed buff and cast speed buff

      sure in a solo environment such as Corrupted dungeon it all looks the same (in terms of single target damage) but if you look from a utility point of view it has huge difference in what they provide to group play
      no...
      Trinity just used to buff party at avalon Dungeon. Trinity ability=clumped buffed group= dead at gvg. It's useless for gvg, zvz battles. Only works with autoattack at corrupted Dungeon and as said, same playstyle.
      Pike is obviously autoattack+E.
      Glaive works with kidnapping playstyle. Thats all. But thanks @Retroman for killing glaive from use. Was never Main damage and never first tank cause greathammer is still on top If wey talk about Crystal.
    • The outdamage comes from cloth so You balancing all tree weapon by corrupted Dungeon and 2v2 hellgates... Great... Stupid balance as always SBI.
      Lets SEE what pijama cloth champions gonna hate next patch.

      Yeah, As said in the topic of Spears a year ago, the AA buff Will bring problems to Spear
      users.
      It was unused at 35% damage, overtuned at 40% now dead at 32%... Bravo, great job Retroman.
    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      It was unused at 35% damage, overtuned at 40% now dead at 32%... Bravo, great job Retroman.
      you forgot about
      • Resilience Penetration:
        • One-handed Spear: 15% -> 40%
        • Pike: 15% -> 30%
        • Heron Spear: 15% -> 40%
        • Spirithunter: 15% -> 30%
        • Trinity Spear: 15% -> 30%
        • Daybreaker: 15% -> 40%

      It's balanced, not broken. Now you won't outdmg skillshots with autoattack..
    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      bro, why You write That here? This is about the problem of solo Target most spear tree is.
      Sorry. It's a bit out of topic, I understand.
      Emotions collecting over time. On trash-patch by another... I've been a bit tilted.

      But I wrote about your's issue too.
      Pike is the top target damage between spears. It breaks an enemy's skull by tones of damage on the E spell. Simple and effective. Good in 1v1.
      Trinity looks like a small sale orientated. It's a root and team buff.
      I don't play GvG, but glave looks ok to throw your enemy to your back-line, where your teammates should kill him. Looks perspective.

      But target damage from Q is so high, that it doesn't matter, which E will you use. All the fight comes down to just poking an enemy.
      If we are talking about pike, trinity, glave - E spell is just a bonus.
      If 8% nerf will be enough to break it - you will be forced to understand a diff.

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      The outdamage comes from cloth so You balancing all tree weapon by corrupted Dungeon and 2v2 hellgates... Great... Stupid balance as always SBI.
      Again... for the sake of all gods can someone at last explain, why a suitable, correct balance in 1v1 should break the other formats of PVP, but can't be a stable foundation for it?
      Рow one excludes the other? No jokes, no sarcasm. I really wanna understand this opinion.

      Hattenhair wrote:

      All it took for spears to cross from trash-tier to overtuned was the 5% per stack AA damage buff, and considering the heavy utility nature of the weapon shouldn't this be accessed more carefully?

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      It was unused at 35% damage, overtuned at 40% now dead at 32%... Bravo, great job Retroman.
      +5% buff was provided before giving all the spears a second ultimate. We need to remove a harpoon from W to revert spears to that state.

      I am not an experienced spear user, so can't say for sure if 8% is a correct value.
      In common it looks like a fair nerf, but there is a thing, I'm confused with. Will two nerfs one by one just kill a glave? Maybe, if all the spears will be nerfed, the previous nerf should be rolled back?

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Back.Off.Outlaw ().

    • Back.Off.Outlaw wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      bro, why You write That here? This is about the problem of solo Target most spear tree is.
      Sorry. It's a bit out of topic, I understand.Emotions collecting over time. On trash-patch by another... I've been a bit tilted.

      But I wrote about your's issue too.
      Pike is the top target damage between spears. It breaks an enemy's skull by tones of damage on the E spell. Simple and effective. Good in 1v1.
      Trinity looks like a small sale orientated. It's a root and team buff.
      I don't play GvG, but glave looks ok to throw your enemy to your back-line, where your teammates should kill him. Looks perspective.

      But target damage from Q is so high, that it doesn't matter, which E will you use. All the fight comes down to just poking an enemy.
      If we are talking about pike, trinity, glave - E spell is just a bonus.
      If 8% nerf will be enough to break it - you will be forced to understand a diff.

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      The outdamage comes from cloth so You balancing all tree weapon by corrupted Dungeon and 2v2 hellgates... Great... Stupid balance as always SBI.
      Again... for the sake of all gods can someone at last explain, why a suitable, correct balance in 1v1 should break the other formats of PVP, but can't be a stable foundation for it?Рow one excludes the other? No jokes, no sarcasm. I really wanna understand this opinion.

      Hattenhair wrote:

      All it took for spears to cross from trash-tier to overtuned was the 5% per stack AA damage buff, and considering the heavy utility nature of the weapon shouldn't this be accessed more carefully?

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      It was unused at 35% damage, overtuned at 40% now dead at 32%... Bravo, great job Retroman.
      +5% buff was provided before giving all the spears a second ultimate. We need to remove a harpoon from W to revert spears to that state.
      I am not an experienced spear user, so can't say for sure if 8% is a correct value.
      In common it looks like a fair nerf, but there is a thing, I'm confused with. Will two nerfs one by one just kill a glave? Maybe, if all the spears will be nerfed, the previous nerf should be rolled back?
      bro If poke damage would be That strong at gvg, meta would be a pike using cloth and not a curse staff, xbow or regular bow before nerf. The reality is :
      - You can't keep AA overtime. Takes to much mana and You Will lack mobility there.
      -gvg normally win the one who engages Best. You can poke all You want but a combo AOE damage destroys teams. You combo way better with greataxe or avalon Axe as small scale melee player. Dunno why AoE damage is so underestimated. It's pretty strong instead.

      Trinity is not useful cause the ability doesnt combo at all with gvg gameplay. It's been proven so Many times by myself and sure other people.
      Spirithunter in the other hand combos really well and is not about autos but forest of spear + E but You need a cc chain. Thats why I talk about COMBO damage.

      Glaive only had kidnapping. Now is damn dead thanks to Sbi.


      Res penetration buff just affect damage scalation at group fights. Now is just at same level with swords and axes so no problem.

      35% autos buff was useless a year ago. 40% is overtuned. 32% is overkill.
    • Quagga wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      It was unused at 35% damage, overtuned at 40% now dead at 32%... Bravo, great job Retroman.
      you forgot about
      • Resilience Penetration:
        • One-handed Spear: 15% -> 40%
        • Pike: 15% -> 30%
        • Heron Spear: 15% -> 40%
        • Spirithunter: 15% -> 30%
        • Trinity Spear: 15% -> 30%
        • Daybreaker: 15% -> 40%


      It's balanced, not broken. Now you won't outdmg skillshots with autoattack..
      This affects 0 in corrupted xd. Imagine complaining without having an idea of what you're saying. Resilience penetration reduces focus fire defenses.
    • Gabumon wrote:

      Quagga wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      It was unused at 35% damage, overtuned at 40% now dead at 32%... Bravo, great job Retroman.
      you forgot about
      • Resilience Penetration:
        • One-handed Spear: 15% -> 40%
        • Pike: 15% -> 30%
        • Heron Spear: 15% -> 40%
        • Spirithunter: 15% -> 30%
        • Trinity Spear: 15% -> 30%
        • Daybreaker: 15% -> 40%



      It's balanced, not broken. Now you won't outdmg skillshots with autoattack..
      This affects 0 in corrupted xd. Imagine complaining without having an idea of what you're saying. Resilience penetration reduces focus fire defenses.
      ?? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D