Pike/Glaive/trinity... Same single Target weapon

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    • Pike/Glaive/trinity... Same single Target weapon

      At least one of these weapons needs a rework. They are pretty mucho same: single Target weapons That strongest point is AA burst over time. With pike and Trinity playing the OneShot but overall they are pretty much same. These need a rework to AoE based E skill damage / debuff to be useful in other contents.
      The change from harpoon to corrupted Steel E at spirithunter was good but still not enough.
    • Reg Bow:
      Strengths: Decent range, no mana issues. insane aa speed steroid and aa damage increase and top off with resistance shread
      Weakness: purge make it worthless for E duration. takes 7 autos to get to full potential (new: CC can make it lose stacks)

      Spears:
      Strength: can have high auto damage but have limits (Slower stacking and no range using Q1 or mana issues with Q2), versatile W and strong E choices
      Weakness: mana issues in long fights (Q2 makes it worst), low mobility/No range (fix by Q2 but would have mana issues), Low attack speed when compared with reg bow


      to be honest the increase in stacks needed to reach max for reg bows would be enough. the time where stacks fall off cut into half was so bad it made it no longer as strong when compared to curse or frost
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    • @Quagga
      what you going to do about mana issues that spear line has?

      either you take Q1 with the slow to solve the mana issues and kiting issues but have slower ramping damage

      or you take Q2 and go the burst route with pike but you will have mana issues if you cannot kill your target
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    • Quagga wrote:

      The_Support_God wrote:

      @Quagga
      what you going to do about mana issues that spear line has?

      either you take Q1 with the slow to solve the mana issues and kiting issues but have slower ramping damage

      or you take Q2 and go the burst route with pike but you will have mana issues if you cannot kill your target
      good stack management will never burn you out of mana.
      that is correct. I play now mostly spear as it is really really OP.

      If u wait till the very last moment to refresh stacks zero mana issues.

      I played healer in 2HG and he played like...was drama ..he refresh on 50-60 % timer...of course fast outa mana ..

      Then we switch. . i refresh at 90% timer ..zero mana issue ..and crazy Winrate..

      Bottom line...i just can recommend spears, the current AA is so broken that it is auto win..if not stupid..

      And I stopped care what I abuse.. because you can be sure on one thing currently..

      Balance is not working, something will always be rediculous broken..
      And with current patch balance management..u always have 3 months to fully exploit it..

      Right now it is spears on broken boots..

      Next i smell is life curse on grudge..because u remove all run / merc ..etc ...while having full dot / grudge. Need test..but it smells like that..
    • meta shift for good or bad.

      now on the topic of changes since retroman is making changes for mid energy surge season we might as well suggest some changes so they would appear 1 month down the line
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      Reg Bow:
      Strengths: Decent range, no mana issues. insane aa speed steroid and aa damage increase and top off with resistance shread
      Weakness: purge make it worthless for E duration. takes 7 autos to get to full potential (new: CC can make it lose stacks)

      Spears:
      Strength: can have high auto damage but have limits (Slower stacking and no range using Q1 or mana issues with Q2), versatile W and strong E choices
      Weakness: mana issues in long fights (Q2 makes it worst), low mobility/No range (fix by Q2 but would have mana issues), Low attack speed when compared with reg bow


      to be honest the increase in stacks needed to reach max for reg bows would be enough. the time where stacks fall off cut into half was so bad it made it no longer as strong when compared to curse or frost
      1. There is some bug when range auto-attack can be used with insane range, similar to crossbow Q. Maybe it is just a sync issue with high ping. But in common full stacked spear has better range, as a ranged auto-attack.
      2. Q stacks of spear much more stable than bow's one.
      - you can pre-stack it without losing arrows
      - you can start to stack again every moment. There is no possibility to make a spear punching bag with purge using just after bow E used.
      - there is no MP issues if you are not pressing Q by cd
      3. Spears has mobility(regular, trinity, daybreak), also spear has mobility on W. But mostly it is not needed because of the second ultimate(hook) on W. Spear makes any mobile class just a pray.
      4. Low attack speed, but absolutely insane damage.

      Reg bow and trinity is completely the same. Huge trade potential with mindless space clicking. But trinity has much more tools except it. As jumps, reflection, hooks, etc.
      And if you are nerfing one "space-clicker" - you should also nerf the second. Otherwise, it has no sence.
    • it sounds like bow line need to get a rework

      outside of mist piercer and reg bow and probably badon other bow choices are terribly weak at the moment

      throughout this entire year me and many others have been advocating that melees and other range dps should get some love

      but now bow line feels outdated and weak in some areas

      spears was fixed then maces and hammers was fixed after that healing was rebalanced then fire and curse got buffed
      and the latest one is swords which yours truely was apart of.
      i think it is about time bows get their fix too to not be a only point and click weapon with no brain. the lack of choices when compare to other classes is staggering

      frost has better mobility skill and aoe dps
      curse has better sustain damage in groups
      spear has easier to use autos like you said
      and swords has better sticking potential

      so ya... bow need a buff/ rework/ new skill
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      so ya... bow need a buff/ rework/ new skill
      If the issue will be in bow - it will be a victory, I think. The issue is in actions.

      Look...
      I have just fought against a pike with a burst W. I lost.

      How was it?
      - I hear a pike W. So I know what to expect.
      - He is running and deal that monkey's combo, but I'm using helm to avoid E, then frost shout to leave a demon cape area.
      - Pike makes 4 hits. 1 while I am casting a frost shout, second while the animation, and 2 more after that(it's about your above words about attack range).
      - That's all. I've lost 1\2 of my HP bar and was forced to collect bat's debuff.

      So we have a weapon, which has a combo with such a huge damage potential, that it is possible just to shout an enemy.
      But even if it fails all the combo, it is enough just to hit 4 times to take 1\2 of an enemyes HP.
      So I can say, that spears have insane damage with auto-attacks. Not less than a bow for sure.

      If I see this:

      • Enchanted Quiver (Regular Bow):
        • Attack Damage Increase per Stack: 35% -> 30%

        • Attack Speed Increase per Stack: 15% -> 13%

        • Max Attack Buff Stack: 6 -> 7

        • Attack Buff Duration: 5s -> 2.5
      I think: "Okay. Retroman decided, that killing players with just space clicking is too easy".
      There are a lot of ways to counter a regular bow, but maybe.

      But then I see this:
      • Fling (Glaive)
        • Cooldown: 15s -> 20s
      And from that moment I can't understand, why it's not ok to kill with space pressing using a bow, but ok to do the same with a trinity, or pike?

      Let's remember the one more great improvement:
      • Magic Arrow (Warbow)
        • Reduced the size of the hitbox of the projectile, and adjusted the projectile position better match it's actual hitbox

        • Projectile Speed: 16.1 m/s -> 17.7 m/s
      Sorry, I know, that I'm spamming about this weapon. But it is my main, so I know it well. I see this change and think. Okay. They think, that it should be more difficult to use bolts and hitbox should be the same, as it looks. And they started with warbow and crossbow. Okay, maybe.

      But then... next patch, one more. There are no changes for other bolts.
      So it turns out that Retroman think, I should miss like that:

      But my enemies should hit like that:


      Or let's remember swords. Nerf swords stacks, when it was OP. Then add buffs to compensate in a few patches one by one and at the end just revert nerf, leave all the buffs, and ad some additional.

      That is the issue.
      Crude, unfinished "balance" patches. While it will not change, it will always be some heal, tomb, etc.

      So yes, spear should be nerfed as well as a regular bow. But there are a lot of such issues and first of all SBI should stop providing new content, which will be dead in a month, new textures, etc, while the existing one is not finished,
      SBI, please, stop drawing and pay more attention to existing problems!

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Back.Off.Outlaw ().

    • Back.Off.Outlaw wrote:

      The_Support_God wrote:

      so ya... bow need a buff/ rework/ new skill
      If the issue will be in bow - it will be a victory, I think. The issue is in actions.
      Look...
      I have just fought against a pike with a burst W. I lost.

      How was it?
      - I hear a pike W. So I know what to expect.
      - He is running and deal that monkey's combo, but I'm using helm to avoid E, then frost shout to leave a demon cape area.
      - Pike makes 4 hits. 1 while I am casting a frost shout, second while the animation, and 2 more after that(it's about your above words about attack range).
      - That's all. I've lost 1\2 of my HP bar and was forced to collect bat's debuff.

      So we have a weapon, which has a combo with such a huge damage potential, that it is possible just to shout an enemy.
      But even if it fails all the combo, it is enough just to hit 4 times to take 1\2 of an enemyes HP.
      So I can say, that spears have insane damage with auto-attacks. Not less than a bow for sure.

      If I see this:

      • Enchanted Quiver (Regular Bow):
        • Attack Damage Increase per Stack: 35% -> 30%

        • Attack Speed Increase per Stack: 15% -> 13%

        • Max Attack Buff Stack: 6 -> 7

        • Attack Buff Duration: 5s -> 2.5
      I think: "Okay. Retroman decided, that killing players with just space clicking is too easy".
      There are a lot of ways to counter a regular bow, but maybe.

      But then I see this:
      • Fling (Glaive)
        • Cooldown: 15s -> 20s
      And from that moment I can't understand, why it's not ok to kill with space pressing using a bow, but ok to do the same with a trinity, or pike?

      Let's remember the one more great improvement:
      • Magic Arrow (Warbow)
        • Reduced the size of the hitbox of the projectile, and adjusted the projectile position better match it's actual hitbox

        • Projectile Speed: 16.1 m/s -> 17.7 m/s
      Sorry, I know, that I'm spamming about this weapon. But it is my main, so I know it well. I see this change and think. Okay. They think, that it should be more difficult to use bolts and hitbox should be the same, as it looks. And they started with warbow and crossbow. Okay, maybe.

      But then... next patch, one more. There are no changes for other bolts.
      So it turns out that Retroman think, I should miss like that:

      But my enemies should hit like that:


      Or let's remember swords. Nerf swords stacks, when it was OP. Then add buffs to compensate in a few patches one by one and at the end just revert nerf, leave all the buffs, and ad some additional.

      That is the issue.
      Crude, unfinished "balance" patches. While it will not change, it will always be some heal, tomb, etc.

      So yes, spear should be nerfed as well as a regular bow. But there are a lot of such issues and first of all SBI should stop providing new content, which will be dead in a month, new textures, etc, while the existing one is not finished,
      SBI, please, stop drawing and pay more attention to existing problems!
      bro, why You write That here? This is about the problem of solo Target most spear tree is.

      Thats why You don't understand spear weapons: they 1 v 1 weapon just like double dagger or one handed dagger. If You don't see weapon like this then You are not analyzing properly.
      The autoattack buff just works in solo targeting PVP situations. But it's not That strong:
      The just nerfed glaive it's been crap at corrupted Dungeon
      murderledger.com/builds/1v1_high_ip_7_day?weapon=2H_GLAIVE
      But GLASS CANNON champions just shout to the SKY saying was OP and got a 20 secs cooldown abd thats it. The outplacement gameplay is one of the smartest idea by Sbi but they don't realize it.

      However I agree Q2 drives You to a monkey gameplay Style.
    • Gabumon wrote:

      Game
      is
      not
      balanced
      around
      corrupted

      Or should not be. It actually is, but not every weapon need nerfs because is good in CD and buffs because is bad. Sorry!
      If CD isn't balance and let some build have over 70% win rate , then CD shouldn't be exist
      (Because it is design for making player have a good fight , some build is too op to break in this design.)

      Spear have a big problem like sword , if u want your E have a big DMG , you need make your stacks max.(Apart from Daybreaker and trinity)
      But , Spear's Q is so OP that cause you still have DMG even you dont use E.
      Arrow's E have a good DMG as well , but arrow have not other choice.
      Spear have two way to give big DMG , stack Q then AA , or E to burst out.
    • For me besides the ridiculous power of AA with stacks the spear has the most versatile W's and E's of the game and you actually play for get good with all skills (not like certain ranged weapon where you pop E, jacket, reflect helmet, attack like a braindead turret and if the enemy doesn't have more than 1 purge he is basically free loot)
      War Gloves supremacy

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Fabrizziou ().

    • should we ask Retroman to revert the buffs to spear autos?

      i mean all other "competitive choices" was nerfed since we last visited this topic on spears
      spears was in a bad spot before as in "1 year ago" before it got buffed in many ways, same as swords which retained the buffs and got its sword stacks reverted

      so i think we can dial back the power since reg bow its closest competitor was nerfed to the ground
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    • Just a rundown of buffs spears received a year ago

      • Lunging Stab (all Spears)
        • Damage: 70.61 -> 78.00


      • Resilience Penetration:
        • One-handed Spear: 15% -> 40%
        • Pike: 15% -> 30%
        • Heron Spear: 15% -> 40%
        • Spirithunter: 15% -> 30%
        • Trinity Spear: 15% -> 30%
        • Daybreaker: 15% -> 40%


      Spears
      • Spirit Spear Charge (all Spears)
        • Auto Attack Damage Increase: 35% -> 40%
      • Spirit Spear (all Spears)
        • Auto Attack Range Increase: 30% -> 35%
      • Impaler (all Spears)
        • Damage: 140 -> 155


      Looks like a lot of general damage buffs. who knew it would come back and bite us a year later
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