Nerf Bow

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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      Looking only at CD and 1v1 meta

      frost is a pain in the ass to catch

      most builds i face run purge with helm of valor, mage robe
      if you dont have at least one of these then you deserve to die to reg bow as simple as that. or you can try using the crystals in the CD to run because those exist

      as a bow one purge and you are forced to run and wait for your next E and when you turn back to try and kill a frost/any other mobility build they have the
      CC or at least mobility to run till they regen their health to full and try again

      granted reg bow is a fking brain dead turret with massive point and click damage but it realy is feast or famine when the other guy does not have purge or has it.
      so it is considered balanced.

      unlike hit and run builds who have like no control until next patch.

      once we see the meta settle down next patch then only complain weather reg bow is op or not because in its current state in CD it is not OP at all in the mobility heavy meta

      if we talk about crystals 5v5, hellgates and open world fight its a whole different story. bow is always considered meta mostly due to Resist Shred and the ability of bow to scale its "auto attack damage" heavily with IP.

      for example if claymore E gets 50 damage per 100IP then reg bow would get 150 damage per E that is how crazy the scaling is in open world with no ip cap

      bow/1h curse/ xbow/dual daggers these 4 weapons scale their damage of their E way better then anything else in the game through a combination high base damage and resist shred and thats why they are main stay dps in almost every team/ considered broken by some people
      so u state ..get purge or deserve to loose..

      Hmm ..as u wanted to FCK gnature u statement was.. it cannot be that u need purge to win vs that shit..and that shit had zero Mobility aka catch potential..

      Now bow ..get purge or deserve die..what now??
    • Zentiic wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      Just hope Sbi killoff braindead weapons. They are too stupid to keep while other weapons must meet conditions to beat opponents... Thats pretty silly.
      Name one weapon that requires skill. And bow is easy to counter. It's a noob stomper if you know how to manage your opponents stacks, capitalize on the E downtime, and have anyway to reset their stacks the matchup is very winnable.
      I Will always Say one handed spear is the weapon design SBI has to take as example.
      Come on Sbi, why You take us as monkeys. People can think. People need to make a damn effort to win battles, not this click and melt designing.
    • Never had any trouble dealing with Bows in CDs... even with Merc jacket + Specter Hood.

      Have you even tried using Bow to complain about it being too strong?




      Just as a curiosity, if you want to check how strong something is, just use it. If you are an absolute god with it, it is strong... if you aren't you just don't know how to deal with it.
      Some counters:
      Cleric Cowl - > 4s invul and he has to choose to keep wasting arrows to keep the defense debuff or stop attacking and lose the defense debuff stacks.

      Purges in general (cowl, robe)

      Resist potion - > Deny the damage reduction

      Any invs - > Reset defense reduction

      Guardian armor - > Reduces damage output for 5s, again choose to waste arrows or lose the defense reduct stacks.

      Stuns - > Again stacks




      srsly, just use it and you will see the weapon is FAR from being so strong. It is simple to use? Yes. But so is Light Crossbow which, in my opinion, is WAY harder to deal with than bows.
    • ImaDoki wrote:

      Purges in general (cowl, robe)
      Resist potion - > Deny the damage reduction
      Any invs - > Reset defense reduction
      Guardian armor - > Reduces damage output for 5s, again choose to waste arrows or lose the defense reduct stacks.
      Cleric Cowl - > 4s invul and he has to choose to keep wasting arrows to keep the defense debuff or stop attacking and lose the defense debuff stacks.
      Stuns - > Again stacks
      Purges are the only actual direct counter.
      Res pots are universal and can be used against every weapon, so putting it as a dedicated bow counter is weird to say the least.
      Invis is a soft counter that drops stacks - this is a good suggestion, and the only viable one I have seen so far, yet using an invis pot would put you at a disadvantage due to damage reduction, and considering the CRD meta you only have Demon hood and Assassin jacket to fill the role.
      Guardian armor - the self-buff duration on quiver that provides attack damage/speed + shred lasts 6 seconds, so you only need to use 1 arrow from the quiver to keep your stacks intact. And that's besides the fact that nobody uses guardian armor for CRD's.
      Cleric cowl - same as above.
      I-Frames in general - just hold the stacks lul.
      Stuns - same as the above (perhaps a long duration sleep like on hammer W would suffice), the main concern being that you need to stop the bow user from attacking anyting for 6s for his stacks to drop, most same-IP CC effects will never give you a 6s stun, even under considerable buffs.
      You could use the disarm swing from the quarterstaff tree, but that is solely a matchup specific situation as the disarm is only available on 2 skills in the whole game (the other one being fishing cap).

      So were up on 1 universal soft counter, cool beans.
      Hard counters - Purge (Deletes your quiver, universal).
      Soft counters - Invis (Stack drop, universal), Disarm (Stack drop, matchup specific), Sleep (Stack drop, matchup specific).

      Anything else I missed?

      Besides the main point being that it's a braindead turret with no good counters besides one, which completely fucks it over, that in term just promotes a healivy polarized weapon image.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • Quagga wrote:

      PaladinJavier wrote:

      I Will always Say one handed spear is the weapon design SBI has to take as example.
      you mean overtunned auto attack dmg + bugged hit boxs from Q and outplay potential in every 1v1 scenarion without weakness ?yea its perfect example !
      put naked spear and naked bow. See which beat the hell out of which. Which has highest damage output. Which has higher kiting abilities.

      Bro, one handed spear is not braindead ass weapon. Thats all.
    • PaladinJavier wrote:

      yeah, then jus wait or multishot and activate zombie mode E and melt...
      actualy multishot is no longer that OP as was. if you do good timing multishot is useless, perfect example why plate frost is back :)
      and I dont care much about CD.. im mainly focus on open world stuff.
      I want back my bow in open world with DOT change bow is totally useless in solo ganking.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Quagga ().

    • @Trial_hard
      Why G nature and druid nature i ask to nerf was not because the exist purge it is because of the self healing that made it almost impossible for any build to kill unless its a one shot

      as bow when purged you have to wait for 20ish seconds to get your damage potential back so its is balanced because it shuts you down completely i might add

      as G nature or druidic your damage does not fall off when you get purged unlike bow and you have so much fking healing on top of resist when things go wrong

      the healing is the fking problem. you can cast W1 and heal to full unlike reg bow

      after all this time you dont get that healing in CD is the problem?. merc jacket aside because it has a 1 min cooldown. natures can self heal with W1 every 20 seconds and they heal for over 1000 hp and 500 mana. then there was pre nerf thorns where it deal 250 damage per auto. not including the reflect damage

      back then before all the buffs and nerfs nature 1v1 was so bad to the point where purge was needed to even be even able to 1v1 a nature else you have to run. and by even having purge you dont even shut down even half his skills unlike bow. remember that guardian helm also used to heal actual HP and not shield? purge does not remove that
      so it was not balanced at all the nature line for 1v1 aside from its inherent non mobility

      then you ask is how is that different from black hands, xbow, fire, bolt casters who also do not have any mobility? yes its because they cannot heal unlike nature

      so the nature nerfs for 1v1 scenario was JUSTIFIED. End of story

      I will not take back my words for how stupid self healing is in CD if its not on a Long cooldown or at least reduced in power
      so in a sense where reg bow gets destroyed for 20 seconds after purge is still balanced
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      The post was edited 1 time, last by The_Support_God ().

    • that bow is not balanced. is not that you purge and you catch him up. still has frost shot and multishot. thats enough to reset the fight unless you play high mobility (bloodletter). this is only game where ranged are so op. one of the reason im dropping this game soon. and takes them loooot of time to fix it.
    • if Reg bow plays like hit and run E damage alone would not be enough to fight things like frost xbow, boltcasters, dual daggers
      because it takes at least 6 autos to get the full damage in and even then its not enough to kill those so you have to reset to change to explosive arrows

      sure they might use Q and W to gain space and buy time but at that point it is just a copy of frost playstyle but weaker in poke?

      at that point you might as well play warbow/ badon or frost in this case

      also this is why i asked to buff swords and spears a while because melees should be "strong" when they are close

      on a diffrent line of thought. this is why the new changes to CD where there is corruption would help curb this full running because super mobility builds like you said exist....
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    • shumadocky wrote:

      The bow needs to be nerfed, it is impossible to play corrupted dungeons against bow players even 2 tiers higher.
      Depends on which bow you are thinking about.
      Im for example a warbow player having big struggle against regular bow players.

      It´s counterable somehow but not fully, even with stealth, iceblock etc.
      even if you try to kite out the E buff, the duration vs. it´s cd doesn´t make much sense to me tbh.
    • BraveArt wrote:

      Definitely needs looking at in 1v1 situations. 2 Main problem is the damage in leather out damages cloth swords etc, and if u don't run purge the bow player can stand still in melee range of any weapon and just melt them. obviously they use lolmerc jacket also which gives them an extra life. Oh and they dont need beef stew they just run omelette for max reductions so u cant escape them. New CD change will make a bows paradise, they will just exploit the reset timer and kill u with help of the mobs.

      Not saying all situations but in CD they pigeon hole swords into having to have fiend cowl or mage robe and that has to be wrong to have such a impact on other weapons

      I said this for a while reduce bow damage if range is less than 3 metres from target. Make the range mean something like in other games or what's the point of the weapon being ranged?
      Of course the bow outdamages sword. Like bruh. It´s a damn turret.

      And if you didn´t notice, in this game, ranged tend to be more powerful than melee for they tend to have less mobility.
      Also duh you need fiend cowl or some purge.
      Now as always - these builds has no mobility, so like .. whatever. It´s not like they can kill anything.
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    • Borbarad wrote:

      BraveArt wrote:

      Definitely needs looking at in 1v1 situations. 2 Main problem is the damage in leather out damages cloth swords etc, and if u don't run purge the bow player can stand still in melee range of any weapon and just melt them. obviously they use lolmerc jacket also which gives them an extra life. Oh and they dont need beef stew they just run omelette for max reductions so u cant escape them. New CD change will make a bows paradise, they will just exploit the reset timer and kill u with help of the mobs.

      Not saying all situations but in CD they pigeon hole swords into having to have fiend cowl or mage robe and that has to be wrong to have such a impact on other weapons

      I said this for a while reduce bow damage if range is less than 3 metres from target. Make the range mean something like in other games or what's the point of the weapon being ranged?
      Of course the bow outdamages sword. Like bruh. It´s a damn turret.
      And if you didn´t notice, in this game, ranged tend to be more powerful than melee for they tend to have less mobility.
      Also duh you need fiend cowl or some purge.
      Now as always - these builds has no mobility, so like .. whatever. It´s not like they can kill anything.
      No mobility?? We’re you on crack when you wrote this
    • BraveArt wrote:

      No mobility?? We’re you on crack when you wrote this
      I think he means to say they have no mobility if their on there turret setup (explosive arrows), kite bow has considerably more mobility (frost shot) but also lack in damage compared to let's say morgana cape active frost or light crossbow.

      Reason bow isn't very good is because it has alot of hard counters. In that way it's sort of a coin flip witch isn't great game design but to be fair all it has is damage. No utility just damage. Nerf that and the weapon becomes useless.
      All the noobs turn into savants when they get to the balance thread.
    • Zentiic wrote:

      BraveArt wrote:

      No mobility?? We’re you on crack when you wrote this
      I think he means to say they have no mobility if their on there turret setup (explosive arrows), kite bow has considerably more mobility (frost shot) but also lack in damage compared to let's say morgana cape active frost or light crossbow.
      Reason bow isn't very good is because it has alot of hard counters. In that way it's sort of a coin flip witch isn't great game design but to be fair all it has is damage. No utility just damage. Nerf that and the weapon becomes useless.
      yo, kite bow and turret bow have same mobility rofl.
    • pretty sure if you use frost shot you cannot win a morgana cape frost and xbow / boltcasters

      i normaly stick with explosive arrows and win the initial trades but then they would run and i would not be able to chase them period until i change to frost shot
      then i would have problems with killing the frost instead when they all in'

      then there are builds like 1h mace or tombhammer where they cc you ontop of having mobility W to escape
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    • The_Support_God wrote:

      pretty sure if you use frost shot you cannot win a morgana cape frost and xbow / boltcasters

      i normaly stick with explosive arrows and win the initial trades but then they would run and i would not be able to chase them period until i change to frost shot
      then i would have problems with killing the frost instead when they all in'

      then there are builds like 1h mace or tombhammer where they cc you ontop of having mobility W to escape
      Look that's the moment when skill starts to matter.

      If a frost triggers Morgana you just avoid with frost and skill the 8 seconds..then you trade

      Vs bolts u avoid the skillshot and interrupt the E.. then you trade

      Of course I understand you prefer the turret mode that's the most brainless no skill button smash, but bow has so much potential and is OP if u actually play it right .