State of Dots in AO: Not good to the point they are advantage for your enemies

    • Combat Balance
    • State of Dots in AO: Not good to the point they are advantage for your enemies

      Edited to be up to date :

      With the recent mercenary jacket rework, damage over time effects are in a state where they are more to benefit for your enemy, and more disadvantageous for you, who cannot turn them off.


      The only proper advantage of dots is that it prevents people from using invisibility potions/ specter shoes( and that´s not too useful)
      Thus the list is:
      Useful advantage of dots :
      1) Good against invisibility potions / specter shoes ( which frankly, is not too useful )


      Major Disadvantages of dots
      1) Triggers cleric robe of enemy, giving them full value. Triggers armor of valor, soldier armor etc. There is no outplay there, as you cannot just remove dots you put on enemy. It gives your enemy massive advantage over you.


      2) It keeps you and enemy in combat For enemy and you , it means no health regen for some additional time(that can be useful / detrimental). However, this makes playing curses and especially axes to be incredibely weak and frustrating to play in open world, for dots refresh timer to be able to mount up or zone out ( it doesn´t refresh it for enemy - enemy can freely zone out, mount up). THIS IS NOT INTENDED MECHANIC. It is a unintended side result of Corrupted Dungeons change.


      That means that if you stop attacking, you won´t be able to mount up in 10 seconds and zone out in 20 seconds, because dots refresh it ( it´s since patch from May 11th - "Each tick of a DoT now puts the original caster into combat again (currently they only get into combat on the first application of the DoT) "


      Using example of axes, it isn´t 10 seconds mount up out and 20 seconds to zone out. It´s 16 seconds to mount up and 26 seconds to zone out after using Q.
      That´s additional 60% prolonged time to mount up / zone out.
      That is crucial in open world. You need to be able to mount up if a group with way more numbers rushes you out. it´s precisely why it´s supposed to be 10 seconds, so that you have some means of escaping.
      Now with this, it ´s frustrating to play curses and axes in open world. If you play solo/duo, you just usually die because of this and there is nothing you can do. If you play in small scale and you decide to retreat, you won´t be able to due to this unintended mechanic. It´s incredibely frustrating.



      There are other disadvantages to this you can read in topic i linked above, but these are the main issues that should be adressed. Now that mercenary jacket wont gain any value out of dots, dots will imply be detrimental. In fact, any enemy will welcome dots, as it will help them proc their armors and will keep their enemies in combat, unable to mount up and zone out, becoming easy prey.



      Suggestions :
      1) Make dots not proc anything. No soldier armor, no cleric robe, no quarrier cap. It should proc only upon application of dot and not afterwards. There is no real reason for dots weapon to be punished, as dots offer no real advantage and are disadvantageous due to reasons above and because they can be cleansed / removed and defenses and such, it lowers their already low value even further.


      2) Give weapons a way to remove dots from oponents. Magical button that removes dots from enemies would be nice.
      If it can´t be done, a passive on weapon ( would be very welcomed for axes, as their passives are rather useless ) that simply removes bleed from Q and either increases damage of Q by like 5 - 10% or whatever effect you think of.
      Or just make it so that it removes bleeds all together from Q for no advantage - bleeds on axes are so detrimental for various situations that i would appreciate being able to remove them from Q, even if it means sacrificing some damage ( Honestly, oen stack of bleed on axes with 1000 ip in leather armor deals 5 damage per second to soldier armor - 30 damage in total over 6 seconds). I will gladly have that removed. It´s not worth it, and it makes the weapon frustrating to play.


      + For axes, you could make Third Q consume bleeds and put the usual debuff on enemy that reduces healing ( and if debuff is present, battleaxe E would gain value from it ).



      Now this doesn´t really concern ZvZ players much, but it heavily impacts small scale, solo and duo, and also 1 v 1 scene. Though, these dots being detrimental are one of the reasons why axes have no place in corrupted, but that´s for another day.


      Me as an axe player that enjoys mainly solo, i can´t do that anymore. Because dots now keep you in combat, you have no means to escape from groups. Thus i don´t even play much in open world.
      If other weapons suddenly had 16 seconds to mount up and 26 seconds to zone out, everyone would massively complain. But because it´s just axes and curses(possibly few warbows), there aren´t that many people complaining ( though there were some topics on regular forum), but for axes / curses, this is incredibely frustrating and it essentially kills these weapon in open world.


      TLDR:
      Dots are so bad, enemy rejoices in meeting weapons that are using dots, for it´s only to their advantage.
      There should be a way to either remove dots from enemy, or make it so it´s not advantage for your enemy ( it shouldnt proc cleric robe, armor of valor, soldier armor etc)
      Dots should not prolong time required to mount up / zone up. ( 10 seconds to mount up - if you use bleed, it´s 16 seconds to mount up).
      My YT channel - Solo greataxe killing everything https://www.youtube.com/user/DhaosNK/video=7

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Borbarad ().

    • Hey there,

      this change was implemented to make the playing field more fair for all parties - the one dealing the DoT and the target - as both are locked in combat for the same time. Otherwise it would be the same issue like it was in the Corrupted Dungeons, the one dealing the DoT having the advantage since they leave combat earlier, while their target still takes damage.
    • Amoebius76 wrote:

      Hey there,

      this change was implemented to make the playing field more fair for all parties - the one dealing the DoT and the target - as both are locked in combat for the same time. Otherwise it would be the same issue like it was in the Corrupted Dungeons, the one dealing the DoT having the advantage since they leave combat earlier, while their target still takes damage.
      Well then, this exactly proves my point - this is not intended and it makes this extremely Unfair for all parties that use dots as damage.

      Also, the only one who is at disadvantage in terms of zoning to another zone(or mounting up). is not the person that is damaged by dot, as he can zone whenever he want - only the person who used dot is at disadvantage¨, as he can´t zone out or mount up.

      It´s absolute disadvantage when the time to mount up goes from 10 seconds to 16 seconds or longer. That is devastating in open world. Same for trying to zone out.

      This needs to be changed.

      Or at least give axes passive that removes dots from their attacks.

      Dots are not fun - not only it procs cleric robe, soldier armor, armor of valor, and now it also makes you unable to play open world.

      This definitely needs some fixing, because this is unnacceptable.
      This is absolute and massive disadvantage for any weapons that use dots in open world.
      My YT channel - Solo greataxe killing everything https://www.youtube.com/user/DhaosNK/video=7

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Borbarad ().

    • How about: DoT ticks to not refresh PvP combat time for neither perpetrator nor victim and act like PvE damage, resulting in only direct hits which first apply the DoT contribute to it.
      As a result: OOC healing starts at the same time for both targets, ability to zone out stays the same for both targets, while DoT classes still keep their ability to interrupt mountups due to interruption with damage, and the most important part: CRD players stop whining about dying to curse/fire DoT's after they kill their opponent.

      Just do the whole thing backwards: instead of DoT ticks contributing more to PvP timer, make them not do it at all.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?
    • New

      You on crack man. It is an insane idea to let someone drop combat after they have applied Damage over time effects onto someone IF THOSE EFFECTS KEEP THE OTHER PARTY IN COMBAT AS WELL. Its just simple fair and balanced and youre mad cuz your mindless playstyle got nerfed.
    • New

      Sedocoi wrote:

      You on crack man. It is an insane idea to let someone drop combat after they have applied Damage over time effects onto someone IF THOSE EFFECTS KEEP THE OTHER PARTY IN COMBAT AS WELL. Its just simple fair and balanced and youre mad cuz your mindless playstyle got nerfed.
      Actually no, the other party can still mount up and zone out - but you cannot. For them and for you, it only prevents HP regen for few more seconds, which doesn´t really matter.

      Dots are great for your enemies - horrible for you.
      For you, the advantage is they interrupt invisibility potion etc, which is hardly ever useful apart ganking.
      For your enemies, it is advantage for them - it procs their armor, and even passive on wargloves, and they know you cant mount up or zone out, so you are free kill.

      Certainly not fair. I would like to have dots removed from at least axe, so i can Q - even if i were to use passive that removes the bleed completely without any advantage, i would be up for that. That is how bad dots are.


      Also, topic updated to be up to date.
      My YT channel - Solo greataxe killing everything https://www.youtube.com/user/DhaosNK/video=7

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Borbarad ().

    • New

      Borbarad wrote:

      Useful advantage of dots :
      1) Good against invisibility potions / specter shoes ( which frankly, is not too useful )
      + Pressure extentions on enemy disengage/kiting attempts.
      + High effectiveness VS low-duration defensives (Applies more to curse than axe, but alas).
      + Interrupts gallop (Kinda meh with the new HP and gallop speed buffs/fixes?)

      Borbarad wrote:

      Suggestions :
      1) Make dots not proc anything. No soldier armor, no cleric robe, no quarrier cap. It should proc only upon application of dot and not afterwards. There is no real reason for dots weapon to be punished, as dots offer no real advantage and are disadvantageous due to reasons above and because they can be cleansed / removed and defenses and such, it lowers their already low value even further.
      Unless we're gonna have another dedicated DoT cleanse like the Guardian Helmet, I would say no to not proc-ing anyting.
      But still I agree that the combat timer extentions are unneeded. Since the current direction of DoT's is making them act exclusively as a pressure extention without anything on top of it (DoT's not triggering purge + Items like Merc J. being triggered only on direct damage).

      They should be just that - damage pressure extentions. Not extending combat timers for any of the party, neither interrupting mountup attempts, nor preventing swapping zones. The aformentioned things should be the job of direct damage.
      - You're a monster.
      - Am I?