Reputation system and PK in RZ still sucks

    • deenne wrote:

      hopchis wrote:

      Well, isn't that exactly what they are supposed to be? Less safe than yellow but measurably safer than black?
      Have you ever tried PK in RZ? you get -1k for kill. sometimes even more. + everyone in the group loses reputation.Do you know how long it takes FF to get your reputation back? hours.. a few minutes of fun and a few hours of punishment in PVE
      the reputation system is outdated and needs updating.
      What you describe is exactly, according to Albion's page on the subject, what they intend with the reputation system. So they post, in writing, how they intend things to work. Then you guys are here verifying that it does indeed work that way. And you think this will make the developers think it needs to be changed? Sounds like a success on their part to me.

      What I would like to know, if you'd care to enlighten me, is why you, as a player-killer, find reputation so important. This is a genuine curiosity and I accept I may be totally missing something. Do you have a compelling reason to not want to be locked out of blue or yellow zones? If so, what is it?
    • deenne wrote:

      hopchis wrote:

      what they intend with the reputation system. So they post, in writing, how they intend things to work.
      the reputation system is outdated and needs updating.
      Okay, so you completely ignored my question and opted instead to make an unfounded assertion. Other than that it would make you, individually, happier, could you at least give me a reasonable argument as to why it needs updating? For bonus points could you suggest what that update would look like and explain how it is better for players overall and benefits players of different play styles? Then, to prove you have an attention span greater than a squirrel, and that you are actually interested in debating what is good for the game and not just being contrary and argumentative, could you answer my previous question? As a player killer, what do you find so bothersome about being locked out of blue or yellow zones? What is in there that grabs your attention that you can't do without?
    • hopchis wrote:

      Okay, so you completely ignored my question and opted instead to make an unfounded assertion. Other than that it would make you, individually, happier, could you at least give me a reasonable argument as to why it needs updating? For bonus points could you suggest what that update would look like and explain how it is better for players overall and benefits players of different play styles? Then, to prove you have an attention span greater than a squirrel, and that you are actually interested in debating what is good for the game and not just being contrary and argumentative, could you answer my previous question? As a player killer, what do you find so bothersome about being locked out of blue or yellow zones? What is in there that grabs your attention that you can't do without?
      no, I am speaking of facts and the facts are that the reputation system was not designed for that many players. and it doesn't work as it should.

      hopchis wrote:

      As a player killer, what do you find so bothersome about being locked out of blue or yellow zones? What is in there that grabs your attention that you can't do without?
      I cant roam in YZ in bandits events first example, I cant use roads from blackzones, I cant caravaning my stuff to caerleon etc..

      you are yz carebears and pls stay there cuz u know shit about this game and you trying be smart.
    • deenne wrote:

      hopchis wrote:

      Okay, so you completely ignored my question and opted instead to make an unfounded assertion. Other than that it would make you, individually, happier, could you at least give me a reasonable argument as to why it needs updating? For bonus points could you suggest what that update would look like and explain how it is better for players overall and benefits players of different play styles? Then, to prove you have an attention span greater than a squirrel, and that you are actually interested in debating what is good for the game and not just being contrary and argumentative, could you answer my previous question? As a player killer, what do you find so bothersome about being locked out of blue or yellow zones? What is in there that grabs your attention that you can't do without?
      no, I am speaking of facts and the facts are that the reputation system was not designed for that many players. and it doesn't work as it should.

      hopchis wrote:

      As a player killer, what do you find so bothersome about being locked out of blue or yellow zones? What is in there that grabs your attention that you can't do without?
      I cant roam in YZ in bandits events first example, I cant use roads from blackzones, I cant caravaning my stuff to caerleon etc..
      you are yz carebears and pls stay there cuz u know shit about this game and you trying be smart.
      "I am speaking of facts" and "it doesn't work as it should" is an assertion and not an explanation.

      I'm trying to understand why your position is what it is. If that is trying to be smart, then yes, I guess I am trying to do that.

      I am yz carebear? I don't spend any time in YZs. You don't know anything about me. You aren't trying to understand me at all. Every time you say stuff like that, what it sounds like to me is that you have no confidence in your own argument--possibly don't believe it yourself, and thus resort to name-calling to hopefully distract both me and yourself from that. Perhaps I'm wrong. But you sure are avoiding giving an actual argument.

      If YZ bandits, BZ roads, and Caerleon transport really are that important to how you play the game, then I guess I can partially understand why you might be upset. But, the thing is, as much as you repeat the phrase "it is outdated and needs updating," the intent of the reputation system is and always will be to be a punitive measure for player killing. The game is designed so that killing in the red zones is permitted, but that there is some kind of penalty that will cause RZs to be less risky than BZs. What is outdated about that, specifically? There are no reputation restrictions in the black zones. The game intentionally has tiers of risk associated with zones, and I can't hear a valid argument suggesting that the risk of red zones is not in line with how it should be.
    • hopchis wrote:

      But, the thing is, as much as you repeat the phrase "it is outdated and needs updating," the intent of the reputation system is and always will be to be a punitive measure for player killin
      The conversion rate is not commensurate with the current player count, let's say 1-10 you killed 1 person and now 10 at the same time. and the penalty threshold has not changed.
    • Deene, I don't know whether it is that there are thoughts in your head that don't make it to the keyboard to fill in the gaps or if my reading comprehension is lacking, but I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at.

      You mention player count. You mention killing one player and then ten at the same time, and you mention a penalty threshold.

      Are you suggesting that if Albion's player count is higher, that you should be allowed to kill more people with less penalty? Do you imagine yourself to be some sort of population control for the game?
      Do you feel that you should be able to kill ten people at the same time and have less of a penalty than if you killed ten people one at a time? Mass murderers are somehow more ethical than serial killers?

      If so I would disagree on those points. You are going to want the game to work in such a way that it benefits your exact play style. Other people want the same thing for themselves. Nobody is going to get exactly what they want because what is best for the game is for it to be as fair as possible to everybody who plays it.

      More players in the game means more opportunity for player killers, with or without changes to the rules. We certainly don't want to change rules in such a way that player killers are benefited to a point that drives growth for the game downwards. Growth is good for everyone.

      I'm gonna give up on this conversation as trying to understand you is proving to be really tedious, hard work. We know that we disagree with each other and I don't see where I am going to get much more insight beyond that at this point.

      I'm going to go ahead and apologize for having a bit of a condescending tone with you. I would be lying if I tried to pretend I have not. Thing is when people start to speak insultingly toward me I quickly start to lose respect. I'd love to see the level of discourse and overall respect for others on the forum increased and yet I get a road-rage style irritation inside of me when I feel like others are being intentional jerks. I'm sorry. I wish you the best enjoyment in your Albion activities.
    • hopchis wrote:

      Do you have a compelling reason to not want to be locked out of blue or yellow zones? If so, what is it?
      Being locked out of redzones removes all of the convenient access to hellgate content, (if there's people running gates outside of caerleon they are in a vast minority).
      Access to yellows / blues are very convenient for using roads portals for transportation and roads content. Zone locking is actually an inconvinience.

      Albion has a valid reason to want to discourage opt-in pk, but I believe the system they have in place makes it overly unappealing to point of missing out on potential content and fun for blues and reds. There are players that want to pick outnumbered fights in good gear, and players that want to zerg them down to take their stuff, and losing 500-1k rep per kill severely limits this sort of content since most players I know like to do at least something in the royals. There oughta be some form of deterrence beyond zonelocking, like being unable to deflag after a certain point, or some silver/stat penalty. If you red enough, you should no longer be allowed to be blue, but the game not allowing dreaded+ players a route to regrind reputation feel like outdated mechanic that doesn't represent how the royals are played and experienced today.
    • FarmerLee here. I have a ton of strongly held opinions and the state of the red zone/yellow zone and recently made a post on reddit about it.

      One particular challenge I see with the game is that safe content is being promoted in what i suspect is an attempt to retain the new players. I feel that the rewards for the safe content are unsustainable. PvP and PvE content with no risk of loot trashing are generating tons of loot. This drives down the price of gear in the cities because a larger percentage of people are simply not losing gear anymore. The logical extreme is that yellow zone warriors will buy a full 8.3 set and finish their progression and never have to buy another set until they get bored and want to try a new set. Meanwhile they will sell the lower tier loot on the market to a shrinking portion of the population that needs to replace gear they lose.

      In the same line of thinking, I feel that there needs to be a compelling reason to bring players out into full loot PvP zones. To me, I feel that the rewards for non-lethal PvP and safe zone PvE are too high and ultimately keep people involved in non-lethal PvP and safe zone PvE indefinitely or atleast for a much longer time than when I started playing. I think that the rewards for Safe content should be absolutely minimal in order to promote full loot content. Without people dying and gear getting trashed, any loot other than the max tier would be worthless which will eventually compound into an issue where new players will struggle to make any money because nothing they make will have any value to any other player.

      Red/black zone content should be braved by any player looking for rewards from PvP, PvE, or Gathering. Otherwise, gear will just pile up and lose value. At the end of the day, the Flux of items being trashed should somewhat equal the items being generated by the players in order to maintain the demand for the items. Bloody ZvZ wars do a lot to keep gear in demand, but I see no reason for people to generate loot without risking their own.
    • FarmerLee wrote:

      FarmerLee here. I have a ton of strongly held opinions and the state of the red zone/yellow zone and recently made a post on reddit about it.

      One particular challenge I see with the game is that safe content is being promoted in what i suspect is an attempt to retain the new players. I feel that the rewards for the safe content are unsustainable. PvP and PvE content with no risk of loot trashing are generating tons of loot. This drives down the price of gear in the cities because a larger percentage of people are simply not losing gear anymore. The logical extreme is that yellow zone warriors will buy a full 8.3 set and finish their progression and never have to buy another set until they get bored and want to try a new set. Meanwhile they will sell the lower tier loot on the market to a shrinking portion of the population that needs to replace gear they lose.

      In the same line of thinking, I feel that there needs to be a compelling reason to bring players out into full loot PvP zones. To me, I feel that the rewards for non-lethal PvP and safe zone PvE are too high and ultimately keep people involved in non-lethal PvP and safe zone PvE indefinitely or atleast for a much longer time than when I started playing. I think that the rewards for Safe content should be absolutely minimal in order to promote full loot content. Without people dying and gear getting trashed, any loot other than the max tier would be worthless which will eventually compound into an issue where new players will struggle to make any money because nothing they make will have any value to any other player.

      Red/black zone content should be braved by any player looking for rewards from PvP, PvE, or Gathering. Otherwise, gear will just pile up and lose value. At the end of the day, the Flux of items being trashed should somewhat equal the items being generated by the players in order to maintain the demand for the items. Bloody ZvZ wars do a lot to keep gear in demand, but I see no reason for people to generate loot without risking their own.

      I agree with everything you said. I'm a new player (on mobile) and since I'm trash and the app crashes from time to time (even mid combat) I start to see no reason to go over RZ/BZ. I can just stay in YZ all the time and do some corrupted dungeons to maintain my silver (plus doing the daily arenas give you enough profit to easily get some 4.1 sets).

      Even tho I love solo roaming and fighting open world, it loses interest when I can get much more value doing some instanced pvp. I kinda hate corrupteds, but it's ultra hard to find 1v1 in the open world for a new player, everybody runs in groups or has trillions+ IP higher than me.
    • Dr.Zoster wrote:


      Even tho I love solo roaming and fighting open world, it loses interest when I can get much more value doing some instanced pvp. I kinda hate corrupteds, but it's ultra hard to find 1v1 in the open world for a new player, everybody runs in groups or has trillions+ IP higher than me.

      This is the crux of the issue in any “hardcore” pvp game, and albion is no exception. People say they want hardcore pvp, but what they really want is hardcore pvp for their enemies and no risk for themselves. If there is risk, people will do what they can to mitigate it. The bz players will stick in groups, or stay in their own zones, or try invade other alliances zones in cheap gear - either option has greatly mitigated the risk.

      I would argue that the game has never been in a healthier state. Instanced pvp via hellgates and corrupted dungeons ensures fair fights, and the pseudo-instanced pvp via roads offers more dynamic, although often uneven, fights. But with all these options, the “hardcore” (rolls eyes) crowd wants to effectively turn the red zones into black zones, expecting it to be some ganking playground for them. But there is a reason that CDs are so popular, and the blackzones are so “dead” - because people want to mitigate risk. If you turn the red zones into pseudo-black zones, then red zones will be dead too. People will stick to yellow zones, or they’ll just quit the game. The high population albion is experiencing is owing to giving players options for fair fights, fair pveing, etc., and not forcing them into zones where they will get stomped by numbers and gear.

      If Albion devs have learned anything, it’s that instanced content is the way forward, not because it’s the most fun, but because if they do not force balanced fights, then the fights will almost always be unbalanced.
    • FarmerLee wrote:

      FarmerLee here. I have a ton of strongly held opinions and the state of the red zone/yellow zone and recently made a post on reddit about it.

      One particular challenge I see with the game is that safe content is being promoted in what i suspect is an attempt to retain the new players. I feel that the rewards for the safe content are unsustainable. PvP and PvE content with no risk of loot trashing are generating tons of loot. This drives down the price of gear in the cities because a larger percentage of people are simply not losing gear anymore. The logical extreme is that yellow zone warriors will buy a full 8.3 set and finish their progression and never have to buy another set until they get bored and want to try a new set. Meanwhile they will sell the lower tier loot on the market to a shrinking portion of the population that needs to replace gear they lose.

      In the same line of thinking, I feel that there needs to be a compelling reason to bring players out into full loot PvP zones. To me, I feel that the rewards for non-lethal PvP and safe zone PvE are too high and ultimately keep people involved in non-lethal PvP and safe zone PvE indefinitely or atleast for a much longer time than when I started playing. I think that the rewards for Safe content should be absolutely minimal in order to promote full loot content. Without people dying and gear getting trashed, any loot other than the max tier would be worthless which will eventually compound into an issue where new players will struggle to make any money because nothing they make will have any value to any other player.

      Red/black zone content should be braved by any player looking for rewards from PvP, PvE, or Gathering. Otherwise, gear will just pile up and lose value. At the end of the day, the Flux of items being trashed should somewhat equal the items being generated by the players in order to maintain the demand for the items. Bloody ZvZ wars do a lot to keep gear in demand, but I see no reason for people to generate loot without risking their own.
      I write how much silver I earn on yellow zone PvE.
      I solloing map (group) T5.0 with most of bosses (green/ blue/ purple/ gold chests)
      So all the loot and siver is only for me.
      I used few sets 8.3 Use satchel 8.3 and respect points.
      Do you know how much silver I take from 1h PvE?
      (minus) - 500.000 silver if I have luck and I am not knock down. (1 knock down cost me 350.000 Few sets 8.3)
      So every 1h I lost from 500k to 1kk
      Where I make silver? Gethering on red zone. Yellow zone gethering is not worth time.

      Why I make yellow zone PvE? Because I like chalange in PvE and I dont like group divers when they are prepare for PvP when I am in 50% my HP fighting mobs without my spels.

      Risk vs revard in this game is joke.
      All gankers scream risk vs revards, risk vs revard, we regulate economy. Next they grouping with few friends go kill alone getherers/PvE players and sell loot on market.


      Nysriaytor wrote:

      Dr.Zoster wrote:

      Even tho I love solo roaming and fighting open world, it loses interest when I can get much more value doing some instanced pvp. I kinda hate corrupteds, but it's ultra hard to find 1v1 in the open world for a new player, everybody runs in groups or has trillions+ IP higher than me.
      This is the crux of the issue in any “hardcore” pvp game, and albion is no exception. People say they want hardcore pvp, but what they really want is hardcore pvp for their enemies and no risk for themselves. If there is risk, people will do what they can to mitigate it. The bz players will stick in groups, or stay in their own zones, or try invade other alliances zones in cheap gear - either option has greatly mitigated the risk.
      100% true.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by assassinBK ().

    • Reds are out populated 100 to 1 in the RED zone. It's low risk for blues and its because of the flag system. Remove it and everything will change, lots of blues watch u kill other blues then just finish u off and take all the loot

      My fix, remove the flagging system in red zones just like it is in the black zone - If you attack a blue you get flagged exactly the same with the hostile debuff yet it just times out instead of being deactivated.

      The black zone is garbage and just a playground for big guilds, this game is attracting far more solo players these days and the BZ just makes no sense, childlike design flaw.
    • BraveArt wrote:

      Reds are out populated 100 to 1 in the RED zone. It's low risk for blues and its because of the flag system. Remove it and everything will change, lots of blues watch u kill other blues then just finish u off and take all the loot

      My fix, remove the flagging system in red zones just like it is in the black zone - If you attack a blue you get flagged exactly the same with the hostile debuff yet it just times out instead of being deactivated.

      The black zone is garbage and just a playground for big guilds, this game is attracting far more solo players these days and the BZ just makes no sense, childlike design flaw.
      Yea so your idea is make similar RZ like BZ because BZ is garbage.
      I don't know why but I feel if stupidity could fly you would be an eagle
    • If rep is removed there will be nothing blocking people from bringing 50 people to lock down a zone.



      Just go gank in Black Zones if you guys don't want to deal with reputation... oh wait, you can't because, guess what, you will be swarmed with 50+ red names...


      You guys complaining about reputation simply aren't reasoning.

      Ask for protected loot, which makes SOME sense, instead.
    • Tabor wrote:

      Reputation loss should be scaled based in party size. If you kill people while solo flagged it should not be the same loss as killing a player in a group of 6. The larger the group of reds the higher the loss per kill.
      That is exactly the intention. Don't bring 6 people to kill a single one, unless that one person is really juicy.

      If it was scaled down the system wouldn't be effective at all, people would still lock down zones with 50+ numbers.

      I used to force reds to leave by bringing really shit t4 gear to kill them. They had to choose... die, kill a T4 trash and lose 1k reputation for 10~15k silver or leave.


      Red Zones aren't the place for swarming. It is a place for controled PvP in Low Numbers.

      Bring 2-3, maybe 5, kill some GOOD preys instead of anyone who pass by (track some transport routes going to/coming from Caerleon).

      Another good option are Avalon Roads in safe zones. People tend to use them a lot to transport goods and, guess what, no reputation loss since it is considered BZ.
    • If I am solo flagged and kill a solo blue I lose 1k rep. If I am a party of 12 reds and kill 1 blue I lose 1k rep. This makes 0 sense being the risk of being solo flagged is astronomically higher than the group of 12. I don't even play in the red zones but this just seems like common sense stuff here. That is what I meant by scaling. Solo red should maybe lose 200 in my above example while the group of 12 each loses 5k or something. Essentially make it super punishing for groups ganks in red but less for solo.
    • Tabor wrote:

      If I am solo flagged and kill a solo blue I lose 1k rep. If I am a party of 12 reds and kill 1 blue I lose 1k rep. This makes 0 sense being the risk of being solo flagged is astronomically higher than the group of 12. I don't even play in the red zones but this just seems like common sense stuff here. That is what I meant by scaling. Solo red should maybe lose 200 in my above example while the group of 12 each loses 5k or something. Essentially make it super punishing for groups ganks in red but less for solo.
      I agree. IF you are solo and kill 1 blue you should lost 1k rep.
      If you are in party 12 and kill 1 blue you should lost 1k*12 = 12k rep :D