ironroot deserves a buff

    • Hellgates
    • ironroot deserves a buff

      ironroot is utterly trash when compared to great holy/lifetouch in 2v2s, even though it was specially designed for 2v2 environment.
      the link is too easy to break, an glaive can easily break the ironroot whenever he wants just with his E skill, nothing else needed.
      buff the link duration and range, make it as it was before call to arms patch was released.
      this way ironroot can be in pair with holy staves in 2v2. :thumbsup:
    • pinto wrote:

      ironroot is utterly trash when compared to great holy/lifetouch in 2v2s, even though it was specially designed for 2v2 environment.
      the link is too easy to break, an glaive can easily break the ironroot whenever he wants just with his E skill, nothing else needed.
      buff the link duration and range, make it as it was before call to arms patch was released.
      this way ironroot can be in pair with holy staves in 2v2. :thumbsup:
      I can't agree that making iron root on equal ground with holy is a fair change.

      From my perspective as someone playing CC, nature is much much better as dealing with CC than Holy. So if we buff nature healing output up to Holy level, it will just be outright superior to Holy, for the aspect that it can deal with CC better.

      I not saying iron root should not be buffed. I just don't have the knowledge about healers to state that. What i'm saying is only "they can't have as much heal power as holy for balancing reason".

      As for how much lower should Iron root's heal compared to Holy, I don't know.
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    • pinto wrote:

      ironroot is utterly trash when compared to great holy/lifetouch in 2v2s, even though it was specially designed for 2v2 environment.
      the link is too easy to break, an glaive can easily break the ironroot whenever he wants just with his E skill, nothing else needed.
      buff the link duration and range, make it as it was before call to arms patch was released.
      this way ironroot can be in pair with holy staves in 2v2. :thumbsup:

      SpicyPepper wrote:

      pinto wrote:

      ironroot is utterly trash when compared to great holy/lifetouch in 2v2s, even though it was specially designed for 2v2 environment.
      the link is too easy to break, an glaive can easily break the ironroot whenever he wants just with his E skill, nothing else needed.
      buff the link duration and range, make it as it was before call to arms patch was released.
      this way ironroot can be in pair with holy staves in 2v2. :thumbsup:
      I can't agree that making iron root on equal ground with holy is a fair change.
      From my perspective as someone playing CC, nature is much much better as dealing with CC than Holy. So if we buff nature healing output up to Holy level, it will just be outright superior to Holy, for the aspect that it can deal with CC better.

      I not saying iron root should not be buffed. I just don't have the knowledge about healers to state that. What i'm saying is only "they can't have as much heal power as holy for balancing reason".

      As for how much lower should Iron root's heal compared to Holy, I don't know.
      Ironroot 100% deserves to get reverted to its original state. I mained Grail Dagger (CC comp) and Ironroots were so much easier to kill than good great holy players, I literally killed ironroots through their E link (first rotation baited out res pot and second rotation just killed em).
    • LegaI wrote:

      I mained Grail Dagger (CC comp) and Ironroots were so much easier to kill than good great holy players
      That's both wrong and true at the same time. You are comparing Iron Root in old HG versus Great Holy in new HG (because there's no Iron Root in new HG)

      What's true is that Grail + Dagger in new HG indeed will have a harder time against Great Holy dps than Quarterstaff + Dagger against Ironroot dps in old HG.

      What's wrong is that the reason isn't because of the Iron root versus Great Holy, but:
      1. A shift in meta from fiend cowl (on dps), guardian helmet (on healer) in old HG to cleric cowl (on dps or healer or both) in new HG.
      2. A shift in meta from cultist sandals (on dps), knight boots (on healer) in old HG to assassin/royal shoes (on dps or healer or both) in new HG.
      3. A change of the staff from Quarterstaff to Grail Seeker. Separator was better against healer than the current Soul Shaker.
      4. Great holy E have a knock back that's only useful against dagger as dps, even when you have Knight helm.
      Among the 4 reasons above, the 1st and 2nd one are the major. (Head/shoes piece meta shift)
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      The post was edited 3 times, last by SpicyPepper ().

    • SpicyPepper wrote:

      LegaI wrote:

      I mained Grail Dagger (CC comp) and Ironroots were so much easier to kill than good great holy players
      That's both wrong and true at the same time. You are comparing Iron Root in old HG versus Great Holy in new HG (because there's no Iron Root in new HG)
      What's true is that Grail + Dagger in new HG indeed will have a harder time against Great Holy dps than Quarterstaff + Dagger against Ironroot dps in old HG.

      What's wrong is that the reason isn't because of the Iron root versus Great Holy, but:
      1. A shift in meta from fiend cowl (on dps), guardian helmet (on healer) in old HG to cleric cowl (on dps or healer or both) in new HG.
      2. A shift in meta from cultist sandals (on dps), knight boots (on healer) in old HG to assassin/royal shoes (on dps or healer or both) in new HG.
      3. A change of the staff from Quarterstaff to Grail Seeker. Separator was better against healer than the current Soul Shaker.
      4. Great holy E have a knock back that's only useful against dagger as dps, even when you have Knight helm.
      Among the 4 reasons above, the 1st and 2nd one are the major. (Head/shoes piece meta shift)
      Ironroot is a complete rubbish, it's not good at any content, literally none, reversing the nerf they made it at least would be usable again, yet it wouldn't be as strong as great holy, surely ironroot will be very good against stun + dps and it's exactly why they should buff the ironroot, the HG is being destroyed by these stupid stun + dps players who do a scripted combo and kill any healer and if they don't just run like you're in a marathon until you get the combo again I I hope they buff ironroot heavy just to hit those brain dead who play stun + dps.
    • Yngvi wrote:

      Ironroot is a complete rubbish, it's not good at any content, literally none, reversing the nerf they made it at least would be usable again, yet it wouldn't be as strong as great holy, surely ironroot will be very good against stun + dps and it's exactly why they should buff the ironroot, the HG is being destroyed by these stupid stun + dps players who do a scripted combo and kill any healer and if they don't just run like you're in a marathon until you get the combo again I I hope they buff ironroot heavy just to hit those brain dead who play stun + dps.
      Trying playing those "brain dead" comp to see how high of a win rate you can get.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • SpicyPepper wrote:

      LegaI wrote:

      I mained Grail Dagger (CC comp) and Ironroots were so much easier to kill than good great holy players
      That's both wrong and true at the same time. You are comparing Iron Root in old HG versus Great Holy in new HG (because there's no Iron Root in new HG)
      What's true is that Grail + Dagger in new HG indeed will have a harder time against Great Holy dps than Quarterstaff + Dagger against Ironroot dps in old HG.

      What's wrong is that the reason isn't because of the Iron root versus Great Holy, but:
      1. A shift in meta from fiend cowl (on dps), guardian helmet (on healer) in old HG to cleric cowl (on dps or healer or both) in new HG.
      2. A shift in meta from cultist sandals (on dps), knight boots (on healer) in old HG to assassin/royal shoes (on dps or healer or both) in new HG.
      3. A change of the staff from Quarterstaff to Grail Seeker. Separator was better against healer than the current Soul Shaker.
      4. Great holy E have a knock back that's only useful against dagger as dps, even when you have Knight helm.
      Among the 4 reasons above, the 1st and 2nd one are the major. (Head/shoes piece meta shift)
      First of all, I am comparing ironroot and great holy in new hellgates (yes I fought ironroots in new hellgates as well past 2 months), not old ones.
      Second of all, meta is not guardian helm and fiend cowl, its helmet of valor.
      Thirdly, meta is still cultist sandals on dps but royal on healer, so you are wrong again
      Lastly, no, great holy E knock is irrelevant against 1h dagger grail, knight helm completely negates it.

      Please master 2v2s before you wanna talk about balancing them.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by LegaI ().

    • One question: why helmet of valor is a full purge again?


      On the main topic:
      Druid's main advantage over holy is anti-pressure shared healing and lower energy consumption rates, while bearing much lower ability to outheal burst damage and HPS overall.
      Iron root tried to bring those advantages to a competitive level in 2v2's by adding even more shared healing to offset a lack of burst healing and a partially shared health pool during the link's duration to withstand burst damage even further.
      But in the current meta of constant knockbacks and displacement CC your only reward for keeping FLAWLESS positioning so the link doesn't tear apart is being barely alive by the end of the fight.

      It is simply unrewarding to have to keep track of stacks and perfectly soul linking yourself up with your ally according to burst damage received, at the same time requiring rigorous positioning by both you and your DPS just to stay alive, meanwhile (even if exagerrated) holy can just slam his face on the keyboard whenever his ally gets low.

      Side note:
      Druid really lacks options for PvE combat; There is no option for the druid to run Ava dung. main healer due to low HPS, even with Soul link's damage reduction options being available (Believe me I have tried), or a party healer even, because you lack a ressurect on W, unlike holy.
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    • LegaI wrote:

      First of all, I am comparing ironroot and great holy in new hellgates (yes I fought ironroots in new hellgates as well past 2 months), not old ones.Second of all, meta is not guardian helm and fiend cowl, its helmet of valor.
      Thirdly, meta is still cultist sandals on dps but royal on healer, so you are wrong again
      Lastly, no, great holy E knock is irrelevant against 1h dagger grail, knight helm completely negates it.

      Please master 2v2s before you wanna talk about balancing them.
      First of all, You are comparing ironroot and great holy in new hellgates, then it's not the matter of the healing staves but you are comparing complete noob to normal player. Only idiot run Iron Root the way it currently is in the new HG.
      Second of all, whatever the head meta was in old HG, it's not Cleric cowl everywhere.
      Thirdly, meta is still cultist sandals on dps but royal on healer, but now you see assassin / royal shoes, unlike before where no one run it.
      Lastly, yes, knight helm completely negates it. But it's not irrelevant unless the holy press his E like a complete idiot.

      Please master 2v2s before you wanna talk about balancing them.

      Read the bold only if you are lazy, cheers!
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • I think ironroot could get a cd buff (20s->15s) to make interrupts less impactful, and you'd be able to rotate on 15s cd abilities (cleanse heal, PoN) or just revert the link range

      P.S. people are sleeping on druidic + rdps, got a ~85% wr (and you literally cant lose vs grail)
    • Kanra.zip wrote:

      I think ironroot could get a cd buff (20s->15s) to make interrupts less impactful, and you'd be able to rotate on 15s cd abilities (cleanse heal, PoN) or just revert the link range

      P.S. people are sleeping on druidic + rdps, got a ~85% wr (and you literally cant lose vs grail)
      All nature are better than holy against CC with that 15m cleanse. On top of that they consume much less mana than holy. So they can't have as much heal as holy or no one will play holy anymore.

      As for how much lower should it be, I can't have a say in it. It's for healers to discuss, I don't that knowledge.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • Kanra.zip wrote:

      I think ironroot could get a cd buff (20s->15s) to make interrupts less impactful, and you'd be able to rotate on 15s cd abilities (cleanse heal, PoN) or just revert the link range

      P.S. people are sleeping on druidic + rdps, got a ~85% wr (and you literally cant lose vs grail)
      85% win-rate with druidic?
      show me some evidence.

      SpicyPepper wrote:

      Kanra.zip wrote:

      I think ironroot could get a cd buff (20s->15s) to make interrupts less impactful, and you'd be able to rotate on 15s cd abilities (cleanse heal, PoN) or just revert the link range

      P.S. people are sleeping on druidic + rdps, got a ~85% wr (and you literally cant lose vs grail)
      All nature are better than holy against CC with that 15m cleanse. On top of that they consume much less mana than holy. So they can't have as much heal as holy or no one will play holy anymore.
      As for how much lower should it be, I can't have a say in it. It's for healers to discuss, I don't that knowledge.
      ironroot is dying in the new hellgate even through the link, his heal is just too weak (especially after the 10% healing sickness in heal in hellgates, which affected especially nature).
    • pinto wrote:

      ironroot is dying in the new hellgate even through the link, his heal is just too weak (especially after the 10% healing sickness in heal in hellgates, which affected especially nature).
      Yes, I've never disagreed on Iron Root being weak. Pretty much anyone running HG on a regular basis know that. It's a fact, it needs a buff.

      All i'm saying was:

      SpicyPepper wrote:

      If we buff nature healing output up to Holy level, it will just be outright superior to Holy.

      It need a buff, but not to the point that it can rival Holy in healing output. Because then you'll have a healing staff that can deal with CC, cost less mana, but still heals as much as holy.

      When that's happen, holy will be right into the garbage can.
      Max spec 700/700 in staff, hammer, mace, and spear tree.
      Max spec 800/800 in all head, chest, shoes pieces.
      Max spec potions crafters.
    • SpicyPepper wrote:

      pinto wrote:

      ironroot is dying in the new hellgate even through the link, his heal is just too weak (especially after the 10% healing sickness in heal in hellgates, which affected especially nature).
      Yes, I've never disagreed on Iron Root being weak. Pretty much anyone running HG on a regular basis know that. It's a fact, it needs a buff.
      All i'm saying was:

      SpicyPepper wrote:

      If we buff nature healing output up to Holy level, it will just be outright superior to Holy.
      It need a buff, but not to the point that it can rival Holy in healing output. Because then you'll have a healing staff that can deal with CC, cost less mana, but still heals as much as holy.

      When that's happen, holy will be right into the garbage can.
      Gholy would be better than ironroot in Healer+DPS fights even if ironroot was reverted to it's original state before call to arms release.
      Ironroot is a kiting-based healer, it can't keep the pressure in long fights. What it means? it means that ironroot consists in constant resets, Gholy will only get low in mana if it's exposed to constant pressure, ironroot can't keep up his DPS in a long trade as Gholy, that's just how ironroot works. So it means that mana wouldn't be a problem to Gholy in Healer+DPS fights.
      The lava mechanics also gives Gholy a big advantage in Hellgates (as ironroot is unable to reset the fight indefinitely).
      Reverting ironroot to its original state would just make Ironroot viable in HG, but not as strong as Gholy in Healer+DPS fights.
    • Just a thought:
      What if Druid could rival holy in HPS to some cohesive extent, yet reaching that HPS would require long setups and be counterable in multiple ways during that setup?
      Hitting a Cleanse heal while both allies are at 3 rej. stacks and soul linked is a good example of what already exists and is currently the only way a druid can trade with a holy face to face, yet the setup takes more than 5 seconds and can be countered to different extents with either a full purge or displacement CC at any point before the Cleanse heal hits.

      Another suggestion would be to employ similar stack consuming mechanics as in Cleanse heal to other druid W's boosting them in the process and enabling longer stack upkeep. And emphasise druid even further as a micro-management healer.

      And for fuck's sake remove the disruption factor on Revitalize when healing an ally; it was supposed to be nerfed in solo PvP, not outright kill the ability in all content.
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